Albino Greybands or 100% hets

[gonesnakee]

Hi curious as to if anyone on these forums has or knows of anyone working with these in Canada (or a US breeder that is willing to ship to)? Very interested in obtaining some for a breeding project (adult male prefered of course). If ya got some please contact me & we would all love to see pics posted of course too.
THX Mark IsBell - GONE SNAKEE! Calgary, AB
(403)252-2597 or (403)708-6705
P.S. yes I already have an ad in the wanted section :p

[Vanan]

Don't have a greyband for ya but just thought I'd ask if you knew that albino greybands aren't pure greybands. They're ruthveni crosses. Something to think about. :)

[MarcB]

Yep, Vanan is right! and if someone was to really hatch a pure albino greyband, who would believe him!

Yep, something to think about....

[gonesnakee]

Ya I know that they have them down to I think 3/4's or even 7/8's pure by doing the whole line breeding hets thing. Not too worried about it, thats how we got a bunch of the fancy corn morphs as well by crossing them out & back. Ain't much when it comes to morphs that are 100% pure whether we like to acknowledge it or not. Mark

[Joe]

If someone was to produce a true albino alterna Im sure it would be just like the emoryi with the corn.... there not compatable so you would know if it was a hybrid...nice looking snakes though...good luck with your search...

[Katt]

Even then Mark, they're still crosses, even at 7/8th's! I really think they are improperly labeled as "albino greybands". They need a different market name to show they are crosses.

What corn morphs were made by crossing back and forth?? I can only think rootbeers/cremesicles, and maybe kisatchies.

Blah and an albino to boot? Get something cool, like hypo coastal plains milk or striped coastal plains or blonde lavenders from Vivid!

If you do get your albino grey/rutheveni, would you still keep breeding pure greybands??

A lot of morphs are still pure. Ball pythons for instance. Cal king morphs, bull morphs. Heck, the newest morphs are coming from pure animals! Even w/c's!

I haven't a problem with ruthveni X crosses, aside from the fact that ruventhi are A) ugly and B) uglier as albinos, but there's a lot of misleading when it comes to ruth crosses. We gotta be responsible for people knowing that certain lines are crosses!

I'm sure a lot of people are going to be surprised to learn albino greybands aren't pure!

[gonesnakee]

Ah Katt, the "gears" eh LOL So mean bashing Ruthveni & their Albino counterparts Heh Heh (too each their own) Ya lots of people will be surprised to know that the "Albino GBs" aren't 100% pure. There has only been a select few corn morphs as you have mentioned created that way but do you think they were marketed as such? Nope they are called Creamsicle or Rootbeer Corns etc. Maybe marketed as Hybrids or crosses by some but even then everyone bred them againest all other types of Corns & so on & so on. If you think that everyone that ever got a Creamsicle bred it only back to Creamsicles, we all know that never happened by a long shot, people treat them like fancy Amels & some will even argue them to be pure (until they are taught different of course). Heck how many Cornsnake lovers don't even know that Creamsicles or Rootbeers aren't even pure as they breed them to all their other "Corns" (I'll use the term loosely, LOL) Like you said if we can be responsible enough to let people know "whats up" ifs no different to me then say Jungle Corns (or should I call them Jungle Kings or just King/Corn crosses Heh Heh) at least I market them as Hybrids (as do most) but we can't say the same for these other "mutated specimens" that are being bred by novices everywhere to "pure" (lol) Corns. Corns are being crossed to other Ratsnakes quite often that we never here about & are marketed as "pure". They only want to create a "fancy name" for them if they appear way different or cooler, other than that they can be marketed as "Corns" because thats what they look like. IMHO as direct results of this happening is where some of these new morphs came from. Irreguardless of what species is mixed with what there are certain levels of responsibilty & trust put back on the breeders & we can tell people only what we want them to know if we really wanted to or we can do the right thing & tell them the facts. Once specimens are out of your hands it is "out of your hands" I'll still probably pursue this, but yes I will still produce/market "pure" GBs & hopefully in the future some of the Albino crosses & both will be marketed "properly" & Labelled as such. Mark
P.S. I just sold an adult female Coastal X Jungle Python earlier this year that had been a pet & was to be a "pet" again. Buddy that got it thought it looked like a pure "ugly" Jungle & despite me telling him over & over that it was a cross & shouldn't be bred (except maybe to a Jag) I'm sure now that he has it he'll be breeding it to a Jungle male this season & passing the offspring off as pure JCPs. This is just the most recent example I can think of & everyone else here can name a bunch also, so basically its all about morals, responsibility & trust no matter what the animal or species IMHO.
P.P.S. Does this mean we start the big "Hybrid" debate again? Heh Heh

[Sean Day]

Oh come on Katt, how can you say this little girl is ugly :)

http://www.nicennaughty.ca/assets/images/ruthf.jpg

[Katt]

That's sad to hear Mark regarding your buddy who doens't believe you. Don't matter if it looks like the parent species, a cross is a cross! Course carpets have been bred back to each other all the time, it's impossible to trust any of them!!

As for that albino whatever that is NASTY! The red looks sick on the pink white parts. The red parts look like some sort of disease!! Put the black where it belongs!!!

[dave68]

Hey Sean, that looks alot like an albino Nelson's milk snake to me?

Dave

[gonesnakee]

LOL at Katt, wait until you see all this years Albino Jungle Corn/Kings you'll love them too I'm sure ; ) Mark

[Katt]

<laugh> Stop it Mark! There's only room for one albino king in my heart and he's MINE MINE MINE! In fact, this morning I had a dream about that li'l guy.

[Sean Day]

dave68 - Yes that was what I thought when I purchased it.

I am pretty sure that it is pure Ruthveni

[bighillreptiles]

the albino nelson came from corn stock as well ,Paul

[Katt]

Uhm, I don't think so. Nelson's are pure and not a cross from cornsnakes.

[Sean Day]

I believe San Diego Reptile produced them from wild caught stock.

[bighillreptiles]

I have read in one of my books that there was some corn influence ? The person breed a albino corn to a nelson and got alibino jungle on the first attempt ,Wheh I find which book I read it in I will post it for you,s . I have over 100 books to look though LOL. That is why i have not been intersted in them ,hope you guys are right as I love the look's of them and didn't get enny becouse of the corn influence. thanks for your time Paul Van Hooser

[Stockwell]

Amel Ruthveni are pure ruthveni, Amel nelsoni are pure nelsoni and amel Hondurensis are pure Hondurans. There is no guttata influence.

[vanderkm]

Paul - I think what you refer to is that someone bred a nelsons to a corn to produce jungle corns (which are a hybrid). While Nelsons might be used to produce these crosses, they are not a result of such a cross and do not have cornsnake genetics in them. Nelsons are an established wild species, as are Ruthvens.

I have pretty limited experience with Nelsons or Ruthvens, but Sean's albino looks more like a Ruthvens than a Nelsons (based on triad count) and it is a gorgeous snake - from someone who loves albinos in any species! Sure wish I had one like her!

mary v.

[bighillreptiles]

NO sorry about the miss, confushion my mistake ! Did I say that out loud LOL . i looked it up again and read it wrong ,I love the albinos as well that iswhy I am doing all the research I can befor getting anny albinos! thanks for cleering that upfor me

[bighillreptiles]

I have found were i found the info.It was in the book by Bill and Kathy Love The Corn Snake Manual,on page 120 at the botom {Hybrids}interstingly the gene for amelanism in L.T.nelsoni is apparently related to amelanistic gene of corn.This was proven when albinism appeared in sevral offspringof f1 cross between an amelanistic corn and a Nelson's milk het for its own presumed separate form of amelanism. taken from Kathy's book corn snake manual . thanks for looking ,