View Full Version : Caution DANGEROUS DOG!!!!
Damien Aube
10-09-02, 01:20 PM
Well the powers that be have passed the law here in Edmonton. As of December 27th, this is now a DANGEROUS DOG! and is restricted. We have to get $500,000 liability insurance and she must be muzzled at all times and on a leash. She's not even allowed in the back yard unless muzzled and leashed!
But it's clear that she is dangerous, as you can tell by the pic!
Big Mike
10-09-02, 02:13 PM
That's just not right...there should be a protest or something.
At the very least they should not impose this on anyone who already owns a so called "dangerous" dog.
The one time I've met this dog she was very friendly. They should muzzle those little yappy dogs instead.
Your dog looks real sweet and I'm sure she's quite nice but I admit I have mixed feelings about this breed. I've known some very nice ones and well behaved but I've also known some pretty nasty ones.
I can somewhat understand the muzzle law in public but I don't think it's fair to impose it in your very own backyard, that's private property and you and your dog should be able to roam that space freely.
What's your dog's name? She is one of the cutest I've seen :)
Pixie
That's BullSh*t. Im really sorry that you have to go through all that. There is no excuse. Your dog acts the way its trained. Its the people that raise their dogs for fights that give the rest of the community bad names. A muzzle in your own yard? Not to mention the leash. Your dog deserves to be able to Run in its OWN yard. I can understand a leash in the park, but your OWN yard? That's crazy.!!! I know how you feel though, my neighbour called the city etc on us for our dog having the run of the yard, she complained that her kids were afraid of the dog and he barked at night when we had him out. We live in the country and 9/10 times he was barking at Coyotes.. And when she complained about her kids being afraid of him, he was 4 months old. You know how scary a 4 month old Chocolate Lab can be huh???
casacrow
10-09-02, 03:17 PM
Do you not fall under a grandfather clause? If you get to your City Hall they will likely grant you permision to keep her in the same manner that you do now. I have one now and the bylaws here are being rewritten as well. Hopefully Ottawa will not follow suit and enforce such unnecessary restrictions.
Peace
Shane Tesser
10-09-02, 03:20 PM
That sucks, what a crap law that is. Obviously someone in your area who helped pass the bill knows nothing about Dog breeds or theyre relation to their training.....whats next?....de-claw your cats cause they may scratch someones eyes out when loose? What a sad day. Beautiful Pup by the way!
McPatch
10-09-02, 04:37 PM
Sorry to hear this Damien.Your dog is more behaved than most peoples kids.Yours is one sweet dog.hope you can find some way around the crazy law.If not,move to Leduc or ST.Albert(lol)
Darren
Grant vg
10-09-02, 05:33 PM
I have mixed feelings on this, ....
Although i have 2 pits, i have witnessed first hand what these dogs can do.
Even my 4 month old female has shown increasing aggression, as well as different styles of playing then what most other dogs play like at that age. Which eventually allienates her in the park from the others, and out the window goes my chances of properly socializing her.
This begins the problem.
If i cant let my dog interact with other dogs, and if ppl are too scared to come up to pet her, then how will she ever get socialized to be around dogs and ppl and deal with certain situations in society.
Not all pits are bad, nor are all good.
But a substantial amount of them are not ur regular lab, and whether nice or not, each and everyone has an increased chance of doing severe damage compared to most other breeds.
The mean pits far outway the good pits in Canada, so there really isn't enough substantial evidence to use to fight a law like this.
The last thing i would want to do is have my dog on a leash and muzzle 24/7, but by conforming to this, in a sense, you are giving in, but u are also taking the issue off the table and can thank god they are not banning the breed, something which they very well could do if pit aggressiveness continues to escalate.
Which, if i may add, i do think pit aggressiveness will escalate and they will be banned sonner then later.
And i am dreadding the day, but there isn't enough responsible owners to take charge. Or is there???
If there was an organization i could join or help establish in Canada, i would devote as much time as i could to it.
But i have heard of none. at least not locally. and do not have the time myself to start one.
Although not a law in ontario yet, i have pondered on the idea of starting my dogs on muzzles. i have also been decreasing the amount of time in the park, and keeping them active using otherways.
These dogs are definately great dogs, however, there are strict conditions that an environment must have for these guys to grow up properly. And i have found it increasingly harder in an urban city to keep these guys and get them the type of stimulis they need to get past there genetic past.
And for those ppl who say genetics doesn't play a big role on the aggressiveness in this breed, ur dreaming.
However, there are some pits that seem to have been passed down from heaven, and beat any Lab or good ol'e mutt intellectually, obedience, gentleness, etc...
I am also a firm believer that the owner has alot to do with the way a pit turns out, however, these dogs have instincts embedded in them that is very very hard to deter. And even the most established trainer cannot always work a pit.
And me as a owner, do my best to train and socialize these dogs, but i find it extremely hard in some aspects, but again I can only do my best. And i would not give up my dogs, under any circumstance.
Unless i felt they were becomming a real threat to society.
Damien, This must be a really hard change for you, im sorry its happening over there, but i am sure i will feel the effects soon.
All u can do is educate those u come across and train and portray your dogs as a good breed.
But these guys had a rep before we got em, and will cotinue to have it far after we are gone.
My advice, .....Live for the moment. Cause no one can take THAT away.....:)
I'm gonna go snuggle up to my dogs and kiss em now, sorry for the long rant, hope ya made it...:)
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/512/5dscn0884.jpg
Proud owner of Ca"Tash" trophy and Brooklyn!
Christina
10-09-02, 06:01 PM
OH I have a beautiful staffy named Sasha. Unfortunately she didnt come from a good situation but she is the most lovable dog ever!
I believe that animals are what you make them to be.
Aggresion and bad behaviour can be controlled with patience and love.
Christina
( oh yeah these laws suck but it is idiots that make it that way maybe $ should be spent on finding them! )
casacrow
10-09-02, 06:26 PM
Grant:
This agression that you talk about, have you ever seen it displayed towards a person? I have seen many pits that are agressive with other dogs, but am yet to run into one who is agressive towards people. I am even told that they make bad guard dogs because it is hard to train them to attack people. I do notice that my pit plays harder at the park than other dogs and hope that it always stays as play. How old are your pittys?
Damien,
That's terrible! As Shane said, the person/s involved in obviously knows nothing. To have a dog muzzled even in a *controlled* situation, much less on *your* property is absolutely rediculous. Beautiful dog, it's a shame not everyone can see it that way. I hate how they are portayed that way. Even the stats speak differently, last year the highest number of dog attacks goes to no other than the Labrador Retriever, but I doubt we will see the day those are banned or have heavy restrictions placed on them.......
Grant,
I'm not so sure I agree with you in that the population of mean pits outweighs the nice ones. I've known so many people that own/breed these beautiful animals, none of them have ever had problems with their dogs. Some were rescued animals, some brought up in one type of environment with very irresponsible people, some that actually knew what they were doing - none had ever shown a single sign of agression. Sure animals all have their insticts, and need to be raised a certain way, but for surely I wouldve seen at least one out of the dozen I have seen had the percentage of mean ones outweigh the nice.......
Grant vg
10-09-02, 06:49 PM
casacrow,
No, my pits do not show any aggressiveness to humans, just very strong, dominant aggression towards other dogs.
So walking down a busy street, and a dog passes by, all hell breaks lose, sometimes.
This being observed by all the passer by's , begins the negative views on these dogs.
The thing that really bugs me is that a lil fluff ball dog will be yappin away at mine, and no one will think anything of it.
then my dogs get mad and growl back, since mine do it much better and along with there build, makes ppl think negatively.
its an ongoing problem ive been having, and i do my best to avoid it, but sometimes its impossible.
these guys are fine in the home, and thats why there such family dogs, however, nuetered or not, many pits view the outside world in a totally different perspective then other dogs , and believe that the world is there territory.
One can take many steps to do there best in controlling there behaviour, but it is rare for a pit to be totally fine offleash in a park full of dogs once they have reached sexual maturity. neutered or not.
gvg
OMG!! WHAT NEXT! PUT MUZZLES ON DANGEROUS SNAKES AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE ON A LEASE AT ALL TIMES!! GEEZZ!! WHAT CRACK HEADS!
thats terrible
i read(yes i do read and not just look for pics) that in 1999 there were more dog bite related injuries on humans from cockerspaniels than rottwielers and pitbulls combined reported
it seems every few years they pick a new dog first it was the dobberman then the rottwieler now the pit bull.
next year i think we should make the pug the most viscious dog
anyways sorry to hear that damien
Grant vg
10-09-02, 09:02 PM
Lance,
Heres some stats i have from a pit bull website....
1988: APBT ranked 9th w/9 per cent of bites
1989: APBT ranked 5th w/15 per cent
1990: APBT ranked 5th w/16 per cent
1991: APBT ranked 9th w/10 per cent
1992: APBT ranked 2nd w/20.4 per cent (w/cocker spaniel showing in 1st)
1993: APBT ranked 5th w/16 per cent
Some of the breeds which placed above the Pit Bull's were Dalmations, Chows, Labs, Goldens, Rotties, Dobermans, and the Cocker Spaniel.
If anyone would like to read further on this info, heres the link http://www.pitbullregistry.com/unfair_stigma.htm (http://)
I fully agree that there are other breeds that might bite people more than pitt bulls but when it comes to damage pitt bull in my opinion rank right up there.
The owner of such an animal is most responsible for the animal's behavior but we can't deny the breeding that went in to this breed either. They were bred to fight and withstand almost anything, to think that they would be cute, cuddly pooches with no other concern would be silly. I've met quite a few stupid people that get them to look tough and be cool. It is unfortunate that those people and they're dogs are the biggest representatives.
I for one have seen pitts agressive againts people and have myself stopped a dog fight that included a pitt. I was **** lucky that I didn't get harmed in the process and the owner was unbelievably stupid. I don't hold the breed per say at fault but how does one know how it was raised? How do I know it's raised by a responsible owner or an idiot??? I don't take my chances anymore as I was lucky enough the first time in a tough situation.
Pixie
i found out that the pits were BUILT to fight. they were put into pits and made to kill other dogs just to entertain some person. my ex-boyfriend was attacked by 2 of them and the results were quite nasty. but i don't hate these dogs or any for that matter and feel that it is stupid that they have such a law over them. i fully agree that it is the person who raises them that makes them aggressive or not. i think that the ppl creating these sorts of laws should find the aggrssive dogs and kill the ppl who made them like that...lol. anyways i just had to put in my 2 cents worth...i thikn that it is terrible what they are doing and your dog is obviously not a vicious human eater....and i hope that this settles all for the better....!!
jsnake0
10-09-02, 09:48 PM
that sucks big time man......sorry to hear
stupid people wreck it for the rest of us
Grant vg
10-09-02, 10:00 PM
Linds,
I should have clarified myself.....or maybe i should have worded it differently....
I didn't mean it neccesarily as towards humans....
Most pits, unless totally screwed up by there owners, dont show aggression to humans.
Many pits are also ok on there leash.
But in the park, when interacting with other dogs. From what i have witnessed, the amount of aggressive pits far outways normally behaved pits.
I have rarely ever witnessed a "purebred" APBT off leash and interacting with other dogs properly (other dogs, being first time interactions).
Not saying that these dogs cant have other doggy friends, because mine have a few favorites they love to play with and have no problems.
But when it comes down to it, most pits are very dominant, and when it comes time to interact with unknown dogs in the park, this breed, in general, has a tendency to show this dominance in an unacceptable manner.
You have seen my pups, they look and act like the sweetest little things.
But did u know that the older one has attacked numerous dogs, to the point where i was considering giving him up?
And has even gone as far as attacking an owner of another dog when she tried to break up a fight?
There is an uncontrollable aspect of many pits. U dont neccessarily know when its going to happen. They were bred for fighting, and is clearly visible why.
However, i have noticed that my Tash, can be agreesive towards a dog, and within a few interactions be ok.
But....how many other dog owners do u know that would give my pits a secong, third and forth chance in the park??
Not many, ive only met one.
But i have met a ton of others that will literally, pick there dogs up, and walk to the other end of the park with a group of others.
When im in my building lobby, any dog that walks in there gets a serious harrassment from my dog.
They dominate any path, area, place, that they frequent.
This is one of the main characteristics of this breed. along with being one of the best family dogs, etc... go figure...lol
There are just not enough ppl with there heads on straight that keep pits, and those who are Ambassadors for the breed make themselves known. But this is only a small precent of the overall owners.
I have known ppl for years and one day find out they had a pit.
The fact is, the majority of ppl dont feel so strongly about animals as we do. And have an animal that they dont really care about.
We are a HUGE minority, and will continue to be so.
I walk through neighbourhoods, and rarely see any dogs being walked, but if u go into there backyards, sure enough theres a pit or shepperd on a chain, with a kennel outside.
The majority being ppl who were not born in this country and do not have the same cultural outlook on animals like us.
They want something cheap, and something for protection.
And with the increasing amount of ppl immigrating here, the higher the percentage of pits wont get the proper socialization that they NEED.
I read somewhere that a good % of pits have been to a pound atleast once. more then any other breed.
How many of those have been euthanized??? dont really know, but lately it has been increasing alot. So maybe my statistics on aggressive to non-agressive pits is outdated because so many of them have been killed.
Pits can be broken, VERY EASILY, but they can also be wisked off there feet just as easy.
But i stand behind when i say most pits shouldn't be let off a leash once they reach sexual maturity. at least not around dogs they dont know.
In many cases they are unpredictable.
And anyone who has one that is fine off a leash, in any circumstance, Cherish that dog forever, because it is a very special dog.
I wish mine were like that, but i have no problem takin em on rollerblades/bike etc...to give them exercise.:)
Anywayz, another long rant . all my opinion.
Gvg
Grant vg
10-09-02, 10:07 PM
To add to the stats,
soemthing that is bothering me that wasn't stated on that website is that, there is a greater number of the "other dogs" on that list(in this country) then there are pits.
Well atleast thats my assumed guess...
So id be interested in knowing whether these stats were on a even ratio 1000 sheperds : 1000 pits : 1000 cockers, etc....
Or was it just takin from the amount of bites from each breed in Texas?
I dont know, somethin to think about......
rattekonigin
10-09-02, 10:50 PM
One thing to keep in mind with these statistics is that the dogs ranked at the top of the lists are very popular large dog breeds, it's unlikely that, for example, Finnish Spitz would be at the top of the list, because very few people own them, similarly, one would be less likely to see Chihuahaus because they are so small that their bites are less likely to require hospitalization and therefore, less likely to be catalogued in a statistical survey...Basically, I don't see how Pit Bulls can be considered any more prone to bite people than most large dog breeds, I think that they probably get more publicity (as do Rottweilers, etc...) because when they do attack the consequences are more severe. A Labrador Retriever doesn't have the huge Lb/sq inch bite pressure that a Rottweiler or Pit Bull does...This just goes to show that ANY dog can be dangerous if they aren't trained and socialized properly.
The only reason that Pit Bulls have a terrible reputation is because stupid people buy them to look "cool" and they can't provide the environment necessary for them to be mentally sound. And that is the biggest problem, because it innevitably leads to misbehaviour, like biting and attacks.
P.S. When I refer to "biting" and "attacking" I mean dog biting/attacking human, not dog biting dog...there are, undoubtedly, certain breeds of dog that aren't good with other dogs, as there are breeds of dog that aren't good with cats or children...
beth wallbank
10-10-02, 12:21 AM
Damien........sorry to hear about your problems, but here we have the same garbage rules too. My guys are harmless and I trust them 110% with my young children and visitors in the house when we are home. On the other hand, I have to say that I DO pity the sorry a$$ that decides to breakin to the house for a treasure hunt.
As for the dogs at the park......LOL....yeah right....this breed has generations upon generations of selective breeding for people interaction and genetic build. The breed is originally back from the black plague was ramid and the Knights used to pitts to clear bears out from around their properties.
I do have to say though, that bad owners make bad dogs. Whether it be a pitt or a rat with hair, they are all capable of inflicting damage. It is the fact that the pitt has 1200lb preesure/square inch in its bite, that makes it seem all that much worse. You put 120lbs on a chiuaua(sp) and I would hate to see the damage those little buggers would be able to inflict.
Just my two cents, and beautiful dogs both Damien and Grant!!!!
This is my girl Rogue, and she is the best of temperment!
beth wallbank
10-10-02, 12:23 AM
and this is my boy Keigan.....hes 130lbs and 12 months old. But there is not a mean bone in his body....other than the fact he is not dog friendly
C.Marshell
10-10-02, 03:23 AM
Damien,
Thats horrible!..leashing and muzzleing a dog olny makes things worse for both the dog and the owner..imo.
Christina
10-10-02, 07:03 AM
Here is something interesting I own a staffy, lab and a staffy/lab (jee wonder how I got that one lol) Anyway when people come to my house or walk by do you know which one they have to be wary of?
Take a guess!
Christina
rattekonigin
10-10-02, 08:47 AM
I agree with Chris, muzzling a dog (unless the dog is actually vicious) just makes things worse. My labs are chronic leash pullers so we put a Halti on them when we take them out on leash. If any of you haven't seen a Halti, it's like a horse bridle for dogs, the leash attaches to the part that goes around the muzzle and controls the dog's head so it can't pull. I looks somwhat like a muzzle (although it wouldn't make a very good one, considering that the dog can open it's mouth fully) and I've had so many people think it was a muzzle and they avoid us while walking, or if one of my dogs gets excited and jumps around they assume that the dog is crazy and about to go on a rampage...I've heard people say "Oh no! That dog's going to attack that other dog!" Ya, right, how many attacking dogs do you see wagging their tails and NOT growling? My dogs love other dogs, if the "muzzle" weren't on these people wouldn't think anything of my dog jumping around with another.
omg, my dad has a rottweiler and he is the KEWLEST dog, i love him so much, he is such a ******!! lol!! I hope nothing like that happens in my state!!
J.J. Over here on this side of the state there are already laws reguarding bull mastif, Pit Bull, and Rotweiller.
Better check the local laws you might be breaking.....
OMG!!! No way, if they try to pass a law about the bullsh!t here, all the old people and really crazy people are sooo going to vote yes!!! Lets just say, there might be reports of some senator or who ever made the decision or wahtever, well that person may be missing..................:eb:
Here is the face of evil!!! I make look like I am smiley and happy, but dont let me fool ya, I can turn EEEEVVVIIILLL too!
oops, almost forgot.............
MUH HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eb:
Dunno what most of you think, but as for me, working in an animal shelter, I've seen pits from both extremes, good and bad.
The bad pits showed aggression to people and animals. Almost all came from bad home, drug dealers, drunkards, macho wannabe teenagers, people who want a cheap security system and dun like animals.
The good ones were the most suckiest dog's I've ever met. Most were my favs. But one same common thing was being dominant over other dogs and some aggression. But of course there were exceptions to all these extremes.
The breed was meant to be dog aggressive (dog fighting). Hence they've become to rely upon their human family as their packs. More so than other breeds. IMO, a pit who's dog aggressive is behaving as it should (whether acceptable or not) but a pit who's human aggressive needs to be looked at again.
Just my two cents. :)
lol .. well done .. the evil J.J., defender of pit bulls. lol
MUH HA HA HA HA HA!!!! That's me!! Dont forget, Rottweilers, Bull Mastiffs and all those dogs with "bad images". :D
and pugs lets not forget those evil pugs 10 inches of raw maneating machine
muhahaha
Cold Blooded
10-11-02, 06:00 PM
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/708wassup-med.jpg
That's right...this dog right here...he's a killer!
Snakeleg
10-11-02, 06:00 PM
Anubis is my 10 month old 100lb Rotti and I have proven without a shadow of a doubt that proper training from birth and socialization is so important. We took him to my daughter's school everyday of his life and let 15-30 kids play and pet him. With this breed you must never let them become the alpha male of the house. My eight year old daughter has more control over him than an adult would.
Every night on our walks people physically cross the street when they see us coming. I always shout out to people that he is harmless as they go by. In actual fact he has been harassed by more smaller dogs who have tried to bite him while he is sitting quietly than he would even raise a nose at! Everytime we go to a lease free park other dogs snarl and bark at him and try to dominate him while he just sits there and takes it. Of course if he ever decided to defend himself you all know who would get in trouble. Me.
I have trained him exactly the way I would expect him to behave. He is as gentle as Rottweiler's go and he would protect anyone in my family especially my daughter to his death.
The one thing that is good about all this is people in my neibourhood are taking notice of how good Anubis is and they are asking a lot of questions and I think that this is a good start to informing people on how to train their dogs properly.
http://www.cartogra.com/rs/0243AC7E-D711-11D6-B42C-0090277A760E/screen http://www.cartogra.com/rs/2E944121-DD66-11D6-B42C-0090277A760E/screen
It's a real shame about all this muzzle ***t. Especially if you are a caring owner who has done everything right. Unfortunately too many ***holes have ruined it for a lot of people.
I don't know if any of you have heard this but a couple of weeks ago I heard that airlines won't allow Rottweiler's, Pit Bulls or Bulls of any kind, and German Shepards on planes anymore. Another thing we can thank all those bad owners for as well.
Sorry I've got quite a lot to say about this stuff!
Have a good night everyone.
James
rattekonigin
10-11-02, 06:18 PM
I gotta wonder why they wouldn't allow the dogs on a plane? They'd be in kennels in the pet cargo hold anyway...it'd be impossible for the dog to get loose and go on a runabout...it doesn't make any sense....
Cold Blooded,
Really cute pug, I love those faces :)
Pixie :zi:
Cold Blooded
10-11-02, 10:27 PM
thanks pixie...he's a crackhead dog (notice the weird eyes) you're boston is cute as well. we have one named sadie...she's crazy..
hey, i can never pass up a good APBT discussion, i have 4, 2 stud dogs, 1 brood *****, and a good ol neutered family dog, well they're all family dogs, but you know. anyways i noticed a few posts about people saying, the age old saying "it's all in how you raise them" and it's true it is, but i'd love to see one of these good owner good dog people, train a full fledged game bred APBT to be a friendly good canine citizen. don't get me wrong i don't support dog fighting at all, but with APBT more than any other breed out there, genetics has 99% to do with what the dogs going to be like, tonka, my youngest male, he's an 66% OFRN 33% Youngs, anyways he's been socialized his whole life, dog park, daycare, letting all types of people and kids pet him on the street, but if he's around another male dog, and that male shows any signs of aggression, then all socialization and frienliness is out the window he's the nastiest dog you'd ever see. yet if that male came over and licked him on the face they'd play all day, and all the training i do, can't get that out of him, anyways, i could go on and on and on and on about history, training, blah blah, but the gist is, breed specific bans are bulls*** punish the individual not the breed. if people were only smart enough to, control their dogs there would never be bites, never, someone can't say any excuse to me as to why their dog would bite someone, there is no excuse, if your dog is a threat take percausions or your going to lose your dog simple as that, sorry for the essay
ps. two of my dogs, have their CGC (canine good citizen) and are obidience titled)
hey, i can never pass up a good APBT discussion, i have 4, 2 stud dogs, 1 brood *****, and a good ol neutered family dog, well they're all family dogs, but you know. anyways i noticed a few posts about people saying, the age old saying "it's all in how you raise them" and it's true it is, but i'd love to see one of these good owner good dog people, train a full fledged game bred APBT to be a friendly good canine citizen. don't get me wrong i don't support dog fighting at all, but with APBT more than any other breed out there, genetics has 99% to do with what the dogs going to be like, tonka, my youngest male, he's an 66% OFRN 33% Youngs, anyways he's been socialized his whole life, dog park, daycare, letting all types of people and kids pet him on the street, but if he's around another male dog, and that male shows any signs of aggression, then all socialization and frienliness is out the window he's the nastiest dog you'd ever see. yet if that male came over and licked him on the face they'd play all day, and all the training i do, can't get that out of him, anyways, i could go on and on and on and on about history, training, blah blah, but the gist is, breed specific bans are bulls*** punish the individual not the breed. if people were only smart enough to, control their dogs there would never be bites, never, someone can't say any excuse to me as to why their dog would bite someone, there is no excuse, if your dog is a threat take percausions or your going to lose your dog simple as that, sorry for the essay
ps. two of my dogs, have their CGC (canine good citizen) and are obidience titled)
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