Pygmy's Why So Hard???

[meow_mix450]

Hey

Im curious as to why they die so easily, ive heard many stories, and i only came up with 2 reasons why they die:
1. Its cause there wild caught
2. Its the owner
But what are they doing sooooooooooooooooooo wrong, they die with in 3 months. Another thing is this guy's pygmys cham was laying her eggs and within the next few days she died. I can understand that it was hard on her but why did she die, if she was perfectly healthly??? I want to get a pair but it seems hard and it sorta doesnt. Im still doing my reserach so maybe you guys could help me out on this, i dont plan on getting them the next show or the next, but i hope in the future i will get some.

Meow

[latazyo]

IMO they are the easiest

no additional heat needed, no UV needed, how could you possibly mess that up?

ours have survived months and even laid eggs with no problems whatsoever

feeding on small crickets occasionally dusted

I see no reason why they would die

[Collide]

"I think" in most cases its half and half, Im not saying that its directly the owners fault i think there isent alot of info out there on them compaired to many other chameleons, hence owners might be doing there best but may be missing some key info. And WC chams are harder to deal with and compine that with there tiny size = more dificulty. IMHO

I know there was a thing going around last year coccidia i think is what it was im not positive. I think this contributed to killing females after laying this may be a reason for that one dieing.

I think once some CB ones get out there, they will be much more easily dealt with.

Just some thoughts... B

[meow_mix450]

Ya it was coccidia, well i want to get a pair, but i dont want it to die on me cause of inproper care, i will get all its need. Could there be other reasons why the female died after laying? Collide you have had a female pygmy how did the care go?(and yees i remember it going to trace) but while it was with you was it hard?

Meow

[Collide]

I got a trio I had two females and one male, the male developed a absess in/on his jaw/side of face, and eventually died, then shortly after oneof the females got the same thing the vets at the time wouldent see me or were on vacation (i swear vets have more vac days then anyone iv ever known). looking back on this now i think they might have been possible spider bites not sure really im just guessing, now at the same time as im having these problem the coccidia was all over somehow i avioded it thank god, as for the remaining girl i decided to give her to trace because she has quite a few pigms and she might make a good breeder. Well lol "Tank" the female is still bummin around she has laied many eggs and she has some kids out there as well.

lol i cant shut up

I had them in a planted semi ventalated cage.they liked lots of misting ate like mad and i did find some eggs (i dident find them in time or they wernt firtal) when i emptied the cage. there cage was 2x 1 1/2x 3 feet and i found that although they spent alot of the time on the bottom the male was always up higher watching the females. I think most of the issue with them is when things go wrong, there hard to detect and treat. I cant really say they were harder then the other chams but they were a huge worrie i never felt confident i was doing things right and was constantly worried about them, I do think however that there babies are alot harder to raise then other chams. bla bla bal i hope i answered your question somewhere in this mess.

[CarlC]

I can't say I have really had any problems with the species I am keeping. I am working with R. nchisiensis, R. uluguruensis, R. brevicaudatus, and 2 females from an unknown species.
I have brev babies from 2 clutch's and just got my first clutch of nchisiensis. Another female nchisiensis is almost ready to lay. The uluguruensis females shouls lay anytime and one of the unknown females is ready to burst with eggs.
If you can match the type locale they really seem to adapt well.

Carl

[Brock]

The coccidia in the females, which can also be transmitted into the eggs, is what was killing them as their immune systems weakened after laying. There is a website somewhere dedicated to medical research in Europe about Rhampholean species, damned if I can find it though, that said there was a strain of coccidia native to the Rhampholean genus and it infected a great majority of the population.

Not sure exactly, this discussion was on KS two years ago. There were a few theories that a) they haven't adapted to live very long, being so small they have been a prey species and thus just have to worry about reproducing and it was in the genes for longevity, b) the coccidia struck after laying as their immune systems weakened (which was the most reasonable theory), and c) the WC specimens were simply ill equipped to deal with importation - but that doesn't explain the CB deaths very well. There was also another theory about planes, the elevation during shipping stressed their systems out, as they are generally ground dwelling animals their evolution doesn't permit them to handle it and something happens internally.

Hard to say, take your pick of what you like, a keeper can do what a keeper can do. Treatment for parasites and coccidia is generally a risky idea since their bodies are so small, the drugs will kill them.

Oh and it's usually only the females that die, males seem to be alright, as was mentioned the egg laying weakens their systems.

-Brock

[Brock]

Can you post some pics of the nchisiensis please?

Thanks,
-Brock

[CarlC]

Hi Brock,

Here is a pic of the male just after shedding. The quality is not as good as the original because I am on dial up service. I'll dig some up of the females and the pics I got of the male mating with the females.

Carl

[CarlC]

Well I don't see the attached image.

Carl

[Collide]

Its there carl looks like a cutie

[CarlC]

I had to switch to IE. Must be a AOL thing.

Carl

[CarlC]

Here is a pic of an egg from R. nchisiensis. I used a penny to show the size of the egg. The clutch size laid was 9 total but 2 went bad within a day. These eggs were laid 28/08/04.

Gestation period was over 2 month's. You can kinda see how developed the embryo is already.

Carl

[CarlC]

Here is a pic of a very gravid female. I expect her to lay any day.

Carl

[meow_mix450]

:O:O:O:O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thats soooooo cool, the egg is tiny! compared to my panther eggs, wow! Thats fertle for sure look at the pink. When did that egg hatch or when will it hatch? I love this speices you can see some colour on there eyes wow. Could you post some enclosure pics!!!!

Meow

[CarlC]

I have no idea on the hatch time. There is no literature published on the species that I am aware of. From the little I can find they are closely related to R. uluguruensis. I am really hoping Petr will have more information about this species in the next book.

That is a pretty poor pic. I should have taken it before I misted. I have some others around. Once I find them I'll put them up. I'll get some enclosure pics tonight.

Carl

[CarlC]

Meow,

Here is a pic of the R. uluguruensis enclosure. It is very similar to the R. nchisiensis set-up.

Since this is a smaller species of Rhampholian I use a small set-up. I think the total volume of the enclosure is 30 gallons. They must be ok with it. The male has mated with both females since being in my care and I have had no loss's.

Carl

[meow_mix450]

Thats kool dont you have problems with mold

Meow

[panther_dude]

Thata awsome carl. Ive always been intersted in the those guys. What do you use for laying? AOr do they just lay through out the enclosure? amizing pics though she looks as if she is going to burst.lol. Hope not lol

[CarlC]

Thats kool dont you have problems with mold
>>>>>>

Nope. The airflow is very good in the room. I use a fan to keep things moving. The windows are usually open most of the summer uless I need to run the A/C.

Carl

[CarlC]

Thata awsome carl. Ive always been intersted in the those guys. What do you use for laying? AOr do they just lay through out the enclosure? amizing pics though she looks as if she is going to burst.lol. Hope not lol
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

These couple of species are defineatly a challange. But that is what I am in the hobby for.
I just let the females lay as they want. Once you get to know each females habits you can usually find the eggs easily. The females all retire to the same resting spots during the middle of the day. The eggs are usually laid under a leaf close by.

Carl

[panther_dude]

cool thats awsome. I have read that they just lay under leaves in the wild, just wondering. ALso I read that some ppl just leave them to incubate in the tank with great success. what are your thoughts on that?

[CarlC]

Because of the lack of knowledge with these species I am removing all eggs. Until I have better knowledge of the captive parameters I will keep removing them. If I had more animals to work with I might do things differant. The eggs I have gotten have been laid just under the surface of the substrate. The upper most eggs were visible above the substrate. Another note is the eggs were laid on the drier side of the enclosure.

I have had many R. brevicaudatus hatch in their enclosures. This species is far less demanding and tolerant of a wide range of temps. I have had eggs hatch both left in the tank and removed. The temps the eggs will hatch at with this species are much higher. The percentage of young that live more than a couple of weeks is much higher when removed.

Carl