Fed ball first rat and I am worried

[Karma]

Ok heres the deal...

I've had my ball for a few weeks. I have fed it 3 times since I had her. One adult mouse every 7 days. I did that 2 times.

I fed her her last mouse on Monday, August 9th. Then I fed her a fuzzy mouse for a snack the next day. I have recently learned that she is big enough to start on rats.

Then I learned it would be ok to fed my ball every 4-5 days. So I fed her a medium rat (I guess you could call it a sub-adult) yesterday. It was about the same size around as the biggest part of my ball's body. She got it down with no problem. And she kept it down.

This is the part that worries me. A few hours later I noticed she was completely submersed except for her head in her water bowl. She stayed that way for several hours. I have never seen her do that before.

Later that night she went back to her hide box where her UTH is.

When I woke up at 12 noon she was back in her water bowl up to her head.

I left for a few hours came home and she was still in there. She might have got out while I was gone.

Is this normal? I always read that Ball's will stay where it is warm to digest their food.

Also her body is huge now after eating that rat. Should I keep her on rats or go back to adult mice?

[BoidKeeper]

check for dead mites in the water bowl.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Karma]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
check for dead mites in the water bowl.
Cheers,
Trevor

I have never seen a mite so I wouldn't know what to look for.

The person I got her from said she had no parasites what so ever but it is possible that she could have gotten some, if any from outside.

I did look in her water bowl and there is nothing at the bottom.

[BoidKeeper]

When a snake soaks mites is one of the reasons why they might do this. What they are trying to do is drown them. They are small and black, some times red and are the size of this( . )
Check around the face and in the heat pits.
Also you cage might be too hot and that is why it's soaking. Check you temps and humidity.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
Stick on thermometers and hydromaters are garbage so if that's what you're using throw them out and get new digital stuff. You can't make husbandry changes if you don't know your numbers and you'll never know your numbers with out the right equipment.

[dave68]

Just to add to what Trevor already mentioned, it could be that your snake was uncomfortable from such a large meal and just soaking because it felt good. In the pic that rat is alot bigger than a mouse and if you had fed it two mice already earlier in the week then it is probably feeling pretty bloated. In my opinion I would wait until your snake poops before feeding it again. If you want to feed it rats that size I would suggest to do so only once a week. Good luck and happy herpin!

Dave

[BoidKeeper]

I've never heard of a snake soak after a large meal. I've seen them stick to the hot spot like glue to help raise their body temp so they could aid in the timely digestion of the food but never soaking for digestion. I can't see an african rock soaking in a river or pound after taking down a gazel, can you?
Dave, if you're going to add to what I say...at make sense please.lol(jk)
Cheers,
Trevor

[Piers]

I've had plenty of snakes go into their water bowl after eating a large meal, odd for a ball python but not unheard of.
Piers

[Colin Friesen]

Sounds ok to me... my bp's sometimes take a short bath after a large meal. Like Trevor said, make sure your temps are right.
As for going back to mice....never turn back!! your Bp is better off feeding on rats, not to mention its easier for you too.

Colin

[dave68]

Calm down Trevor, I'm sure the afrock would soak once it found the pound!LOL! And yeah I've seen many snakes soak after large meals including my balls.

Dave

[BoidKeeper]

Calm down Trevor,
NO! you calm down! I am calm! lol:p
No but really I think you guys are on glue. I've never experienced or seen it documented any where. Maybe you all have mites that's what I think.;)
Cheers,
Trevor

[Karma]

I really appreciate everyone's help. Since I posted she has only soaked once.

Dave68's advice sounds good to me, about not feeding her until she poops again. What does everyone else think about that?

I am almost positive she does not have mites. If it is true what it said about how you can see them with the naked eye then she doesn't have them. I have seen nothing live or dead in her enclosure.

This morning she was in her "pool". I came home from work today and she was in her warm hide box. She seems to be back to her normal self.

I held her little last night and she was pretty active.

I am new to snakes and all but I think that rat was just too big. I hate to say it but I would really prefer to put her back on mice until she gets a little bigger. Going thru this is a little worrying. :medfrown:

[beardiefan]

I'm not an expert by no means, but if you are concerned about the size of the food item, instead of going back to mice just get smaller rats. The 2 babies that I have, have never even seen a mouse, as per the advice of many of the posts read here. Ask Mykee he'll tell you about mice... Just MHO Don

[Karma]

Yeah, I could check into smaller rats.

[HumphreyBoagart]

I have several "mite-free" ball pythons that soak for a while after eating. I'm not sure why, but they do. I think they might be softening up their uncomfortable tight skin after a big meal, but that's just a thought. My Surinams seem to go for a quick "dip" after eating too, they seem like their "washing up" after supper, then straight to the hide.

Don't go back to mice whatever you do. You were lucky to get it to switch so easily. I made the mistake of feeding my first ball mice, now she's an adult and won't even look at a rat. I've tried everything, she just wants nothing to do with them. So I have to feed her like 10 adult mice a week. And she'll only eat live ones too. She probably burns more calories killing and eating them all, then she even gets from the mice. I feed all of my snakes (except this one) rodents that are as much as 1 1/2 times as thick as the thickest part of the snake, so your's SHOULD be alright eating ones the same size as her.

[Artemis]

I have heard some people that say their snakes like soaking. Mine HATES it, and if I force him to pre-shed in the sink he tries VERY hard to get out!

Mites are HARD to notice until they have really taken hold. They really are about the size of the period at the end of this sentance, and somewhat hard to pick up on, I found. What substrate are you using? Just as a precaution I would switch to white paper towels, if you use something else, because that can make spotting mites easier. Also, do check in the water bowl if the soaking continues. Mites could easily look like specks of dust floating at the top, so you have to really look hard.

Not saying your snake DOES have mites, but it is common, and can be very draining on the snake, so dont stop checking for them just yet.

Other than that, it seems that soaking varies with individual snakes, and if it is still eating and going to the bathroom, and otherwise seems normal, then no worries.

Do keep an eye out for mites for a while longer though... That's my advice.

Artemis

[Karma]

Well, I checked the water again and we have mites. Uh, I am so mad! I wonder how she got them.

Right now I am going to do a search for mites.

Anyone got any advice?

[BoidKeeper]

Nix, it's like making home made provent-a-mite. Run a search on Nix and you'll get the recipe. It's the easiest sollution I've ever heard of.
Good luck,
Trevor

[Karma]

Well I just tried the Listerine method.

Now I am using paper towels.

I disinfected everything.

If that doesn't work I will try the Nix method. Thanks!

[BoidKeeper]

It won't. Nix is too easy and you can't miss with Nix. You take out the snake place it in an empty rubbermaid and spray it down and leave it in there over night. Next take everything out of the cage and spray it down. Put in some newspaper and spray it down put in two washable plastic hides and put the snake back in in the morning. Some people spray the snake and then put it back in the cage right away after spraying the cage down with nix too. If you do that leave the water bowl out for at least 24 hours. Repeat the whole process in two weeks. Also treat all other snakes and cages whether you see mites or not.
Trying to disinfect is so much work and often does not get all the eggs and then in two weeks their back. With Nix you don't miss a thing.
Where did you read about the Listerine method? That's a new one to me.
Cheers,
Trevor

[BoidKeeper]

Oh and as far as how you got the mites, how long have you had the snake? They could have been there all along. You could have also taken them home from a pet shop. Personally I never touch anything in a pet shop anymore.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Karma]

BoidKeeper,

This may sound rude but I do not mean it that way at all. I would like to know how you know the Listerine method won't work when you have never heard of it. That does sound mean, huh? But I promise I don't mean it that way!

This is the link for the Listerine method:
http://www.icomm.ca/dragon/mitetick.htm#listerine

To answer your other questions, I have had her for 3 weeks and 3 days. Actually, I did not purchase her from a pet shop. I adopted her from a foster home.

The lady I got her from said she had been checked by a vet for internal & external parasites. If she was being truthful, the only other way (I can think of) she could have got them is when I let her play in the grass for a few minutes at my mom's house.
Do you think she could have got them from outside?

One other thing, I don't know if it is related to the mites but a just now she defecated. It had been quite a while since the last time she pooped. She looked pretty bloated before. I wonder if cleaning her and the tank up had anything with her finally "going".

Now since I'm using paper towels I could really see the mess. Hope I am not being too graphic but there was a wet spot, about 5" in diameter with poop in the middle along with a small amount of urates. Is it normal for it to be wet? I thought they never actually "peed" but just passed the hard white urates.

[BoidKeeper]

I would like to know how you know the Listerine method won't work when you have never heard of it.
Well I made the assumption that it involved treating the snake in some way. Any method that does not involve treating the cage at the same time often does not work because eggs left behind in the cage hatch and start the infestation all over again.

I have had her for 3 weeks and 3 days.
She could have came with the mites. This is the most probable explanation.

Do you think she could have got them from outside?
Not likely. Snake mites are specific to snakes only so unless a snake was in that area and left behind a ton of mites in that spot than I can't see how it could have gotten them from outside. Also I'm not sure if the snake mites that affect out exotic stuff is the same mite that affects out native stuff.

As for the deffication, it sounds normal to me. A lot of liquid is normal I've found any way.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Karma]

Thanks for all the info. I never knew that snakes can only get mites from where another snake has been. And I didn't know they were "snake mites". That's interesting.

Glad to hear that the liquid is normal.

So did you get a chance to go over the Listerine method.

I completed all the steps except for the pest strip.

I did fill her tank full of water and added a lot of bleach and let it soak for 10 minutes. Hopefully that killed all the eggs. I guess I will find out in a couple of weeks.

To add, I haven't seen her soaking yet. And I haven't seen any specks in her water bowl.

[TryToForget]

I heard that if there is liquid along with the poop and pee that it means that they have a good source of water. The reason that they have solid pee is because they are trying to conserve their water. I don't know if that's right. It's just what I heard.

-Jamie

[BoidKeeper]

I would stay away from pest tripes if not used right you can kill your snake. I went over the listerine method and it's too much work if you ask me. What's easier than mixing up some nix and spraying the snake, cage, furnishings and all around the cage. That is the other important thing you have to do is spray around where the cage is sitting too. And if I haven't already said it, treat all your other snakes too.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Karma]

TryToForget,

I hope that is the reason for all the liquid! I just have never heard of a snake having all that liquid. Come to think of it I have never heard of snakes emitting any liquid at all.

BoidKeeper,

I will use the Nix if I see more mites. It might be better to do it just in case anyway.

I don't have any other snakes to treat. I would like more though!

Can mites come from cypress mulch that has been bought at the pet store? I bought a bag and used it for the first time and that is right around the time she started soaking.

[BoidKeeper]

It might be better to do it just in case anyway.
For the little bit of effort it takes I would.


Can mites come from cypress mulch that has been bought at the pet store?
There can be mites in there but not snake mites. The mites in there would not be the same ones that your snake was trying to drown in it's water bowl. Souds to me like you had snake mites and not wood mites, I think that's what they're called.
Cheers,
Trevor