Just Curious...

[tHeGiNo]

Stemming from a combination of boredom and curiosity, I decided to start up this thread for interesting conversation. I am continually seeing people making comments in regards to using the internet, particularly an internet forum, to obtain information in regards to the husbandry of their reptiles. The majority of these comments are negative ones – declaring people whom use such resources as lazy, or thought of as being too cheap to purchase a book. Myself personally, I obtain my information through texts, such as books, the internet and directly from experienced individuals whom are familiar with the information I am seeking.

My question is, why is using such a resource as an internet forum negative, and how does it make a person lazy? If this is the case, why do we have and offer such resources? To me, there is no better reserve then an internet forum packed with experienced individuals whom are willing to provide their knowledge and experience with newer herpers, or those not familiar with a particular genre or species. I see this forum as an invaluable tool, what better way to obtain one’s information then from people who have direct, indispensable experience. Sure, there are the instances in which an inexperienced individual posts inexperienced, and often false and misleading information. However it is our expectation and responsibility to cherry pick our sources for information, and not rely on a single individual’s opinion for a final consensus. After all, there are several outdated books with deceptive information out there for purchase, just as there are those providing erroneous information through internet forums.

To me, such a resource as an internet forum is the way of the future – quick and easily accessible information. Do not get me wrong, having books around for quick reference are definitely an indispensable attribute to anyone’s collection, however I see nothing wrong with using a forum (or internet as a whole) as long as you do not limit this to your only source for information.

[dank7oo]

Its really funny. The people making the negative comments are themselves contributing the the "laziness" of everyone else. Often, they themselves are helping users with problems that have arrisen.

My views are the same as yours David. Books are definitly an important part of any collection, but whenit comes down to it, there isn't a better source of information than experianced people who have encountered the same problems as you are experiancing.

Jason

[BoidKeeper]

I only think people who are on line are lazy when they expect us to do it all for them and they don't bother reading the simplest of care sheets on their own first before they ask what temp their boa should be.
I've said it before and I'll say it againl; Ask me a question about the instructions, don't ask me to read you the instructions.
So IMO the only lazy people on line are the same ones in our schools and work places, they are the ones that expect other people to do their work for them. Everyone is a newbie at least once and I won't forget that but no one held my hand for me along the way, nor do they now as I continue to learn every day. I have no intentions of holding anyone else hand either. If someone doesn't know how to learn I'd rather teach them how to rather than learn for them. People have to be taught to do for them selves rather than have people do things for them. You know what they say; "Fish for someone and they can feed themselves for a day. Teach them to fish and they can feed themselves for a life time."
Cheers,
Trevor

[BoidKeeper]

So is no one going to touch this one or what?
Cheers,
Trevor

[jjnnbns]

I still remember that when I got my first snake, I had not even heard of an internet forum... and had no idea that I should research how to care for a snake. Of course, after joining the site I have learned otherwise.

I had no books or anything (granted it was a cornsnake so it was pretty easy to find info!) but my first post was amazing! I asked multiple questions and got great answers to even the most simple questions! No one was hard on me and it is what hooked me on this site... and on internet forums.

I think that when someone asks even the simplist questions, we should be willing to give them advice and answers... and then point them in the general direction of other research.

If someone picked up a cornsnake on a whim, should the snake suffer because the person cannot get much info until the book on corns arrives in a week that they ordered from amazon.com?

Also, as much as there are many great caresheets out there, some people are quite computer illiterate, and finding many (or even a few) could possibly be more than they can handle.

Finally, what if the only qustions that they have could be answered quicker by stating the answer than by ridiculing? Why take the longer answer which in turn is less effective?

Here is the post that I first made on the site: http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34969

Read how helpful everyone was to me!!!

[hhw]

What's the saying? Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime?

I think that's the issue here... people need to stop asking for fish and start asking how to fish.

[lostwithin]

Hmmm, I'm surprised more people haven’t joined in on this one. I have to agree forums such as this one can be VERY helpful, it always helps too have access to someone who has experience too help you understand the information you read else where or even too verify it through there own personal experiences. but the problem is that fact many people try to use it as an easy way around things. I would generally have too agree with Trevor 100% on this one. There are too many people out there expecting everybody too do things for them. Everybody’s has too start somewhere but they should start on there own learning everything they can and then turn to others who have more experience in order to add to what they've learned. But there are lazy people who don’t bother too learn on there own and expect others too do everything for them. Unfortunately there are people like that everywhere. And the worst part is that since the lazy people don’t bother too do there own research they believe anything that’s told too them , for example all those people who heard somebody say a boa wont outgrow its tank, or that its fine too just feed a burm less too keep it small. And practice these ridiculous things on there own animals simply because they were too lazy too pic up a book and read.
I think that’s what separates what I would consider a "herper" and a person trying too look cool with his snake. A herper in my opinion is someone who learns about reptiles and keeps some of his favorites that he has learned about too take that learning too another level. The others are the opposite, they own a reptile because it fascinates others and they don’t bother too learn about it because they aren’t truly interested in the reptile but more on the attention it brings with it.


Its very true that nothing beats experience for some matters, but for basics there is no excuse except laziness when you just type in your question rather then take the time too read a book with the answers your looking for.

Devon

[Jeff_Favelle]

Its not lazy to use the internet to find information. Its LAZY to get OTHER people to use the internet FOR THEM to find the information they want. These tend to be the same people that look up the husbandry of the animal in question AFTER the buy it.

[tHeGiNo]

If someone picked up a cornsnake on a whim, should the snake suffer because the person cannot get much info until the book on corns arrives in a week that they ordered from amazon.com?

Well in that case there is no excuse, there is never an excuse for an impulse purchase. You should always do every bit of research before hand, and have everything prepared to a T.

[Rebecca]

I personally find it slightly annoying that a person does not do a google search for a basic care sheet. Although it can be tough to find good info out there especially if it's a rarer type of lizard. But then agian if it's a rarer type of lizard then they should know that right, and there for would know how to care for the most basic things . . . anyway that's a WHOLE other topic.Back to my point, I don't mind helping even if they have not done any searching on their own at least they have come here to ask experienced (sp?) people so their new pet/friend does not suffer. Anyway my whole point is that I would rather answer a basic question and know that they have the right info then tell them they are lazy and then have them go off and find a bad care sheet with it all wrong.

[jjnnbns]

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Well in that case there is no excuse, there is never an excuse for an impulse purchase. You should always do every bit of research before hand, and have everything prepared to a T.

I agree 100%, but what about the kid who goes into the petstore to buy dogfood for his puppy and comes home with the snake... of course he is not prepared... no one ever told him to be (do you think that the person at the petstore ever told him to research first?)

All that I'm saying is that as much as people need to learn on their own, it is also nice to be welcomed when you are new to the hobby.

If you see that its a most basic question, and their first or second post... you can most likely assume that they are new to the hobby, and chastising them will only turn them away.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if this person has either been keeping certain animals for awhile, or is already aware of all the info on the net, then it is being LAZY... but how can you tell which is which?

When I bought my first snake I had no idea how many people kept snakes, and in such quantities! I thought that it would be hard to find others with the same interest. Then, a friend informed me of ssnakess and I decided to check it out. That was the best thing that I've found online yet!

Brent Strande

PS It is still fine to let people know that they need to do their research, but by providing the correct info as well, we may be retaining a future outstanding member!

AND BY POSTING "RESEARCH" INSTEAD OF A MORE HELPFUL ANSWER, AREN'T WE BEING JUST AS LAZY???

[tHeGiNo]

I personally find it slightly annoying that a person does not do a google search for a basic care sheet.

If you find that annoying, what in the world is the point of this forum? To post pictures of our snakes and lizards? Sure, thats what reason - but it definitely isn't the only one. The whole intention of the forum is an information research from my point of view.

What you also have to keep in mind is that not everyone knows there are books out there which describe the husbandry of specific species.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if this person has either been keeping certain animals for awhile, or is already aware of all the info on the net, then it is being LAZY... but how can you tell which is which?

That may be true, however I personally would like to obtain information from someone I have seen on the forum for a while and who is a known, experienced individual then trusting a geocities caresheet.

I am thinking back to when I got my first ball python. I had done my research months ahead of time. Thinking about it now, what I would consider lazy is coming here blindly with absolutely no effort put fourth on obtaining information, and using the forum as your only source. It is perfectly fine to do your research, then come here with questions to confirm facts you have read, or to obtain peices of information which you couldn't locate, and finally to get opinions on your husbandry. Thats what I will conclude at.

[ib_inked]

What's husbandry?

[concept3]

In my opinion the internet is 1000 times better than a book. Granted I do read books and you can learn from them, but on the internet you can read 100's of caresheets'/faq sheets with information from hundreds of books and thousands of personal experiences. You cant get this in a book. The lazy people are the people that do not commit a couple hours to do a thoural search and read enuff of the information

[leoncurrie]

Well, I have mixed feelings about this post. I think that it's important that people do there own research on the animal that they have aquired but also they shouldn't be shuned or picked on because they ask for opinions of other herpers. keep in mind everyone that all the books and care sheets contridict one another all the time. That can get confusing to someone new to the hobby, or even an experienced keeper.

[BoidKeeper]

I think that it's important that people do there own research on the animal that they have aquired
You on the animal that they are going to aquire.lol

they shouldn't be shuned or picked on because they ask for opinions of other herpers.
You're absolutely right, they shouldn't. They should be encouraged to ask all the questions they want about the reaserche they've done no matter where they've done it, as long as they've done something on their own firts.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
Can you imagine if you had shuned me when I had questions for you back in the day? I wouldn't be where I am today.

[heebie_geebies]

There can be a fine line between laziness and efficiency.

Something to ponder, not unlike the rest of the points made.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Here's an example, and gee, guess which one MOST people have a problem with here:

Newbie Keeper X asks:

1) How do I keep and breed boas?

2) I was reading about Boa constrictor imperator winter/pre-breeding cycling the other day and I don't understand the whole night-time lows and day-time highs thing. Can anyone make sens of it?

Which guy did their homework and got off his/her a$$ and looked for themself, and THEN asked intelligent questions?

[jjnnbns]

agreed Jeff,

My point was that even a simple question like,

"What should the hot side of my corn enclosure be at?"

should be fine to answer instead of telling someone that they are lazy (not accusing anyone :) ) as many caresheets do differ

I guess that this is a very subjective topic as every question and its circumstances are different, and I do agree that I have witnessed MORE THAN ENOUGH people asking qustions that do seem like they are lazy...

Hmmm, this could go on for days!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I totally agree Brent. The one word or one sentence answers should really just be answered (even though its tough if the SAME question has been asked 4 times in one week). The ones that I find most difficult, and just avoid now in my old age, are the "tell me how to breed Ball Python" threads or "how do I keep boas" or "tell me everything about keeping corns". Those kind of vague questions never really get answered, and then to have the poster come back a day later and reply to his own thread saying "why has no on answered me"......... Too funny.

Its tough, and its hard for the experienced herpers to put themselves in the newbie's shoes, where they used to be many moons ago.

Its all about the animals..................:D

[Edwin]

"Teach a man to fish, and he will spend all day fishing" lol ;)

[jjnnbns]

Yeah, the EXTREMELY vague topics I avoid like the plague. They could go on for days without going much further than what could be read in an hour online!

[damzookeeper]

I agree that the forum is here to answer questions, even the simpliest questions. If I can contribute I will to any questions asked, even if I think they should know it already or should have done their homework first. I think part of my reason for this is because of when I first got into herps a few years back. I bought my first herps from a pet store a pair of rainbow skinks and thought I got all the info from the pet store that I needed. I had no clue about reptile forums, I rarely ever used the computer and trueth be told I didn't even have a clue how to do a search. I can't even remember how I came across the first herp forum I found but I tell you my knowledge grew quickly once I did find a forum and people to talk to that had herp experience.

If people dont' like to see other's asking simple questions and get annoyed at some of the questions asked, then I think they should just ignore them and leave it at that. Don't post saying how lazy that person is and how stupid the question is or put them down with harsh words. It only discourages them and the one who suffers will be the animal.

And I'll admit I often ask for care sheets on animals. I always do google searches but who knows what I'm missing that someone else might have found?! I want any and all care sheets possible on the animals I research.

Anyway, that is just my 2cents. To each their own opinion. :)

[Lisa]

There's a difference between getting spoon fed and confirming that your husbandry or planned husbandry is correct.

ie "What snake should I get?", "What do I need for my boa?"

compared to "This is what I have for my iguana, am I missing anything?" or "I've read a couple care sheets and they conflict on these points. Which one is right?"

The first examples are most likely to get dumped on for the simple reason that no one wants to hand hold some one for their life or the life of their animal, it gets old fast. Like all the "my snake won't eat for 3 weeks" posts in the ball python section. a ten second searh will find pleanty of them with the answers supplied in the previous posts.

[JonD]

Originally posted by Lisa

ie "What snake should I get?", "What do I need for my boa?"

compared to "This is what I have for my iguana, am I missing anything?" or "I've read a couple care sheets and they conflict on these points. Which one is right?"

The first examples are most likely to get dumped on for the simple reason that no one wants to hand hold some one for their life or the life of their animal, it gets old fast.

I agree. Kinda funny getting others to tell you what to buy....a marketing dream no dought.... If you research em it is easy to come to a conclusion of what snake to buy...;)

[damzookeeper]

Yes, I agree, but I also know that we have a lot of younger people on the forum and some that may be a bit more nieve than others. I know I certainly was when I first got into herps. Believing everything the pet store told me. Boy was that stupidity. Now I realize not every pet store is like this but some are just out there to sell and don't care if you buy on a whim, they will asure you that you have everything you need just to make that sale even if you don't.

I know we have some kids on this site that are under 10 and so when I get questions like "How much food will my leo eat a night?" Or "What size cage does my corn snake need?" I will answer them like I'm talking to a 10 year old. If I don't like the question, I just don't answer. Simple as that. This is a forum after all and imo there is no stupid question, so even the simpliest questinos shouldn't go unanswered. But as I said, that is my opinion and to each there own. If you don't have time to be bothered with a simple question then don't come on and redicule the person, just leave the question be and go to the next.