Advice & suggestions on feeding please

[Karma]

I guess I could have posted this in the Food For Thought forum but I thought I could get a more accurate answer here.

I have had my ball for 2 weeks now. The day I got her (2 Mondays ago) she was fed a live adult mouse. The next Monday I fed her a frozen/thawed mouse. Yesterday I fed her another frozen/thawed mouse. Today I fed her a frozen/thawed fuzzy. She ate all food items with no problem at all.

I have no idea how old she is. She is 24" long and about 5" around at the biggest part of her body.

I read that Balls should be fed every 7-10 days.

Am I feeding her right and is it ok to give a fuzzy in between meals?

Does anyone think I should switch her over to baby rats?

I appreciate anyones help.

[thunder]

the food items she eats should be 1.5 times as thick as the thickest part of her body. and i would feed her every seven days, not ten. instead of giving her "snacks", just feed her bigger meals.

[HeatherRose]

Does anyone think I should switch her over to baby rats?

You should probably get it on rats if you can, for a bunch of reasons...mainly because when its bigger you can just feed it one big rat instead of a several mice, and its easier if they're switched early on....

Good luck :)

[Karma]

Originally posted by thunder
the food items she eats should be 1.5 times as thick as the thickest part of her body. and i would feed her every seven days, not ten. instead of giving her "snacks", just feed her bigger meals.

That's interesting, I have heard you should only feed it prey no bigger than the biggest part of it's body.

I have been feeding her every 7 days as opposed to every 10 days.

I also heard it is better to feed smaller meals more frequently rather than a bigger meal less often.

Thunder, do your BP's have no problem with eating something 1.5 times bigger than they are around?


Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
You should probably get it on rats if you can, for a bunch of reasons...mainly because when its bigger you can just feed it one big rat instead of a several mice, and its easier if they're switched early on....

Good luck :)

So I guess you are with Thunder when you say that I can feed it one big rat instead of several mice? You think that is the best way to go?

Since she is about 5" around what size rats do you suggest?

[mykee]

Thunders response was a perfect quot from an outdated reptile book (no offense). Though it is a good beginning guideline for feeding, feeding is not mathematics, it's feeding. Do you eat every 5 hours on the dot? Every get hungry before that? If so, you can go to the fridge and grab something, your snakes can't. I feed every 4-5 days regardless fo age, and if they eat, they eat.

[Artemis]

LOL- what mykee is pointing out is there will always be some variety in the "answers" you find to any given question. There is no doubt from your post that your snakes could be on bigger prey. Start with something equal to the body width and see how he does, a little bit bigger probably wont hurt. Just watch him to see how he does with it. As far as I understand, if it is too big, they will regurgiate it, and they usually cant get it past the shoulders of the prey down their throats. Still, there is the possibility of choking, so it is good to remain present at feedings.

I will say, though, that when I look at my BP's head and neck, and I look at the rat pup, I think to myself, there is just NO WAY he can do this. He proves me wrong every time. I offer to my BP every 3 days, and while they are still smaller and growing I think it is good to feed them as much as will eat. Once they grow a little older and bigger, about once every 5-7 days is a pretty good feeding schedule.

This is all IMHO, and others may give you variations of these answers. Best thing to do is browse the forums and look at other posts by those who answer you, and look at the number of posts (under the avatars) people have made on this site. That can give you a basic idea of who has the most experience, and that will help you narrow down the many variations of answers. I am by no means an expert, admittedly, but thats the best advice I have for you, in addition to what others have said.

If you have only had your BP for 2 weeks, it is all still very new for you. I have only had mine for a couple of months, but you will start to get more comfortable as time goes by and you go through all your "firsts" Feeding is a big hurdle with some BP's, and its awesome that your snake is eating for you! Just give him larger, more frequent meals, and watch him grow! A tidbit- even if it isnt his feeding day yet, and you see him coming out of his hides and checking things out, he may be "hunting" and it would be good to go ahead and offer something. Even if he rejects it, you could always re-freeze it, and try again on your normal feeding day. I wouldnt re-freeze things more than once, though, and not at all if it has been thawed out for several hours. Hope this helps!

Artemis

[mykee]

Artemis; more posts don't necessarily mean more experience, it just means no life, or LOTS of free time on your hands with nothing better to do. The best way to determine experience level, posts or not, is to read the meat of their responses.

With regards to how big or how often to feed, I personally like to keep my meal sizes fairly small, say no bigger than a 150g rats for a 2000g ball, or 50-75g rat for a 1000g snake. The reason I do this, and this I've picked up over the years, is that the smaller meals I feed, the more my snakes are willing to eat, and the quicker they digest that smaller meal. I consistenly get my females over 1000g by their first birthday, and males around 700-800g, so it's working for me. You have to find your own "thing" that works for you, but you sound like you're well on your way.

[daver676]

Originally posted by Artemis
This is all IMHO, and others may give you variations of these answers. Best thing to do is browse the forums and look at other posts by those who answer you, and look at the number of posts (under the avatars) people have made on this site. That can give you a basic idea of who has the most experience, and that will help you narrow down the many variations of answers. I am by no means an expert, admittedly, but thats the best advice I have for you, in addition to what others have said.

Artemis

Wow! This is incredibly untrue. Look at all the posts I have. And I only own one ball python. I am by no means an expert, and if someone asked me a questions about a GTP or something, I'd be hard pressed to say that my info would be correct. Most of my posts are just from sharing passed experiences with my bp, so hopefully the next person who has the same problem I did will have an easier time finding a solution. POst counts are just a bad idea all together. NEVER think that because someone has a lot of posts that they know what they are talking about. That is asking for trouble.

[Artemis]

hahaha, well true its not a sure fire method of telling, but if someone has 25 posts, and someone has 3000, it does give me a gauge of who I am talking to, as I dont think this board gets flamed that bad, does it? I also said to look at the other posts of who is answering you. I say this because when I first started using this board, the number of posts did help me figure out who had been around for a while, at least. Similarly, seeing that someone is a moderator on here also makes me have more confidence in their advice.

But anyways, lets strike it from the record. I take it all back! The problem is, though, mykee, that unless you KNOW the answer before you ask the question, how are you to judge the "meat" of the answers without already knowing what they should be, especially when so many people tell you so many variations of essentially the same thing. Anyways im getting OT. More feeding advice for Karma!

[mykee]

Artemis; good point. And yes, if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, it still makes the same ol' crashing noise.
Karma, what we're tryin' to tell you is that you'll hear LOTS of different methods for feeding your ball, some feed every 10 days, some every 4. Some mice (they suck BTW), some rats. Some large meals, some small. Some with the lights on , some with the lights off. Some live, some frozen/thawed, some fresh/killed. The underlying point here is though that we all started somewhere and you'll read 100 differing views. Bottom line, there is no wrong way to feed as long as your ball is kept out of danger, and fed. Everyone has some trick that works best for them. Enjoy the journey in finding what works best for you.

[hhw]

Okay, when I first came onto these boards, I had a debate with some people over the nutritional value of adult mice versus unweaned rats. My opinion was that an adult mouse, given fully developed bones and more activity, would have more calcium and less fat than an unweaned rat, thus being nutritionally superior. Many people here disagreed with me, citing the growth of their ball pythons as empirical evidence.

Well, since then, I came across a study that Kara from NERD posted, listing the nutritional content of whole prey items. Here it is: http://www.argosy.ca/~hhw/prey_nutrition.pdf
According to that study, an adult mouse has slightly less protein, a fair bit less fat, and quite a bit more calcium than a 10-50g rat (hopper/juvenile). Furthermore, an adult mouse has a fair bit less protein, quite a bit less fat, and a fair bit more calcium than an adult rat.

Now, obviously, you'll want the best nutrition for your ball python. I do not know for certain whether a young ball python needs more protein, fat, or calcium, or the importance of each over the other. For my purposes, I simply assume that since protein is pretty comparable, and since there is more calcium and less fat in mice, that I should feed younger ball pythons mice. Now, there are those who would argue the importance of switching over to rats as soon as possible, or starting with rats altogether, as you will eventually have to feed your ball python rats anyway. My solution to this is to feed primarily mice to young ball pythons, and slip them a rat pup here and there, to ensure they are accustomed to the smell and taste of them.

This is my personal opinion, based on my understanding of the scientific data available. I am sure there are those with more experience who disagree with my stance. However, I prefer to think for myself and come up with my own conclusions. Make of them what you will.

Good luck with your new ball python, and I hope I've been helpful.

[Vengeance]

Problem is with some trouble feeders, just getting them to eat is a challenge. So if you are trying to switch back and forth between prey items it may get to a point where it will only take mice and not take rats. Now I don't think anyone will dispute the fact that an adult Ball Python is better of on rats due to prey size so altough it may not be as good for them at a young stage, in the long run you end up with less headaches trying to switch over a mouse feeder onto rats.

[mykee]

hhw: best of luck, seems like you've got it all worked out. How many balls have you ever raised from hatchlings?

[thunder]

mykee: i agree with u that feeding is not math and that individual snakes feed differently, but i cannot just offer food to my snakes at any old time to see if they will eat, as they will not all take food off of tongs. most of my animals are rescues, and thus i had no influence on their eating habits before i got them, and many perfer to eat when i am not around. if i were to offer them food every 4-5 days, there would be a lot of uneaten rats that i would have to throw away, and i cant afford to throw away that much good meat. i usually get a pretty good sense of how often an individual of mine wants to eat, and the size, and my advice to karma was more broad and vague because i dont know her snake. i cited the 1.5 "rule" because i find it to be true with most of my snakes, and it is a good jumping off point, so to speak, in terms of figuring your snake out. however, my experience with ball pythons is mostly with adults, as for hatchlings, my main experience with them is getting them started. i know that u have much more experience in raising this species, so your thoughts on the subject would generally be more valid.