Teacher Wants to Feed Puppies to His Snakes...

[Samba]

Teacher wants to Feed Puppies to his Snakes (http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/117)

Kittens (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=311085)

Rats- A "Natural Food" (http://www.ratlovers.org/articles/notfood.html)

[ChunkyMunky]

Wow, that is really, really screwed up. That guy should be fed to a grizzly.

[reptiguy123]

I say that it would be fine if he fed puppies that were already put to sleep instead of live. Unless, of course, the gasses that killed the puppies still stayed in their bodies after death.

[anacondaman]

i dont think thats screwed up at all. his way of thinking is very appropriate and by no meens evil. Although he should have took into consideration that not many people in the world see his perspective. The only evil i can see in that picture is if the guy actually looses his job.

my 2 cents

adam

[Rebecca]

Even so it's still kinda sad. I mean that was someones pet or could have been someones pet if it had been aloud to live right. True them already beening put to sleep is more humane, it's still wrong in my humble opinion.

[Artemis]

I dunno- Im 50/50 on this one- but even if that is his perspective, and an arguably legitimate one, im not sure if we should be doing live demos of that viewpoint in the classroom.

Art

[anacondaman]

i also cant stand when people think we are more important than other animals. Sure we are smarter, capable of building great things and animals are not but we are also the only living thing on this planet that cant seem to live here without destroying it.
Im no angel and i know i never will be and i know alot of people are gonna really disagree with me on thsi one but this world would be better off if we fed human babies to snakes instead of kittens and puppies.

adam

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Im not saying this to offend anyone here or to be hurtfull(as this includes me), but I think humans have been one of the worst things to happen to this planet, and we have ruined it enough, so now its time to turn around, think about everything, and re-adjust to our surroundings to make the world live long and prosper. We've done enough bad things to it already and we arent taking into account what we are ignoring in this world.

I am very facinated and interested and agree with alot of views of Dr. David Suzuki, and I have an example to point out. I know its a little off topic, but I will relate and bring it back later.

1 year ago, the formation of earth happened. Our current place in time is the last half second of that year. The time when humans began to walk the earth, was during the last few seconds of this year. So according to this year callender, we have been here for only about 5 seconds. Since then, we have greatly changed the earth, misstreated it, thousands of species have completly dissapeared, and we are not taking into account all the damage we have done. My social studies class figures that if we continue at this pace/level, we will have destroyed the earth within the first two days of the second year of the earth(if not earlier). I dont really remember all the numbers exactly, and may be a little off, but hopefully you understand that example(ask any questions you have if you want clarrification).

Humans(in general) have formed oppinions and given value to certain other beings around us, and not taken into account the importance of other beings. We have formed opinions and beliefs in certain cultures, and are ignoring some facts, that we really do not wish to hear. What makes a dog, so much more special than a rat? How many people will actually care to take in that rats CAN and DO have good personalities? Why is the mouse so disgusting to alot of people? Are these animals(and bugs) comming into our homes invading on us and trying to kill us? No, we are invading on THEIR territory. We have expanded alot. THEY were here first, we ran over their territory. Is it right to form an opinion on some animals just because of their capabilities? I personally dont think so. Just cause we cannot interact as much with some animals, does not mean they are of less value.

As an example, I know many of us(such as myself) are very facinated and really like animals such as: Snakes, Lizards, Amphibians, Inverts, Fish. Most(didnt say all and dont think im pointing fingers, just a general idea) of the outside public that is not part of our hobby, thinks: "Eww", "Gross", "Ugly", "Boring", "Stupid, "Sensless", 'blah blah blah', about the animals we keep/like. Why do people put "our" animals in that class? Because of public opinion/correctness. Why have some others been put into such high classes? Again, opinion/correctness, and a matter of emotion developed from things that have been put into our mind.

*Just a general question I though of*
Why should a spider be smushed on sight? Cause its ugly, and its in YOUR house right? Wrong, your "house" is on it's house. Most subdivisions going in on city property involves the destruction of some animals habitats. Then we move in and complain about them. Not right, they were there first, not us.

Anyways, I've been off topic too much.

In the wild, its unlikely, but probably going to occur, that a dingo, or wild cat is going to get eaten by a large snake! Komodos will eat dogs, livestock, and other animals like that that we put into their area. Its going to happen in the wild, why not in captivity? Of the sever thousands(maybe millions) of animals mistreated in captivity everyday, thousands will be put down because we said we would take care of them, but just toss them off instead. What gives us a right to toss off that animal, and then take its life because there is no place for it with use? Why waste all those lives? Throw them back into the food chain, mind you it should be done humainly, but at least make sure its not just wasted. For all we know, those dogs would be adopted, then one of them released on to city streets, taken by the pound, and euthenized. Why waste all that taking care of a dog that is going to get killed anyways? Put it through all the misery of being alone on the streets. Do you like being mistreated? No, Right? Then why should the dog. I hope everybody understands my points....and my position should be rather obvious, but I do agree that the teacher could have thought more about it instead of giving us(herpers) a rather bad image. Its things like this that also make us seem worse, and more people dislike the animals we love and care about.

*Disclaimer*

None of the above was meant to offend anyone, nore pointing fingers are anyone. My examples were toward mostly the general public, with things that we all know happen every day. I am not pointing fingers at anyone, as I know that there are things I have done when I was younger. I do hunt, and always take as much as I can from the animal that will provide me well. I do get some mounted, but dissagree with wasting some the animal, and always take the useful parts and make sure they are put to use.

Thank-you for taking the time to read my post, and I hope you were able to understand it.

Good-day to you all!

C.

[Will]

I can see the logic behind this teacher's thinking, but I don't think he totally thought this through...

You can't even yell at a kid in school anymore, let alone feed puppies(wanted or not) to a snake.

Whether this planned action is right or wrong on his part, he didn't do a very good job thinking out the possible consequences - especially when, as an educuator, he should know that parents can be super-sensitive(and so they should be) when it comes to what their child is exposed to in an educational environment.

Chalk it down as another dumb idea that probably won't reflect very well on reptiles in an educational environment...

[annieb_mice]

While I don't disagree with feeding prekilled animals, regardless of what they are, to reptiles, or other carnivores, I don't think it should be done in a classroom in front of a roomful of children. There is too much negative public sentiment regarding reptiles already, this just adds fuel to the fire. While I realize that dogs and cats are considered "pets," there are so many that are "thrown" away every day. These "unwanted" animals are going to die anyways, why not at least let them be "useful" as food? So many people disagree with using dogs or other "pet" animals as food, yet they refuse to have their animals fixed and many people actually add to problem by purposely breeding their animals .... so they can let their children see the babies or whatever other rediculous reasons they come up with. I've taken in so many animals over the years that have been the result of people wanting a "cute" pet... and once that cute little kitten or puppy or whatever grows up and stops being so cute... they tie it up outside and ignore it... or drive out to the country and dump it... or any number of OTHER inhumane ways to get rid of their animals. How is dumping your cat or dog out in the country to slowly starve to death, or be torn apart by coyotes, more humane than humanely euthanizing it and using the body to feed other animals?
Ok.... I'll hush now before I REALLY offend someone... LOL!
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

[bistrobob85]

Well guys, there is no evil in nature, and if boa constrictors are higher in the food chain than puppies, everything is at it's natural place. We could also eat the boa, or get eaten by something bigger, a burmese or a retic, and everything would still be fine with the logic of nature. The guy shouldnt loose his job but he didnt evaluate the impact on the general public who don't know that the ham they eat comes from a friendly pigglet that could have been their best friend...

[MouseKilla]

Yo word bistro! lol!

The guy did a dumb thing because he ignored the inevitable reaction to feeding puppies to snakes in front of school children. Just say that out loud "feeding puppies to snakes in front of school children", how does that sound? You know how people are going to react right away. The guy should have known better even if it is ok for a snake to eat a dog. No one would have cared if he fed the doomed pups to the snakes AFTER school when it wouldn't make teenaged girls cry.

Now when it comes to these ridiculous human analogies, prisoners and even human babies being intentionally fed to animals... I mean geezes, that's nuts. lol!

So let me get this straight, I'm a little confused about our position in the food chain in your world, we're less important than puppies but we're still ahead of rats, right? lol! wow

[anacondaman]

status on the food chain has nothing to do with the importance of the animal.

adam

[BoAddict]

how is this any different than disecting the fetus of a pig or rat or any animal for that matter

we as snake keepers are so hypocritical why is it ok to feed a rat or mouse but when it comes to cute bunnies or other animals it becomes wrong

i for 1 would never consider feeding a live dog or cat , but if they were already dead i would not see any harm in doing so

just my $0.02

[madison.s]

I think that the teacher should lose his <A TITLE="Click for more information about job" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A> based on the fact that his job is to teach the kids about seince and not about feeding a snake.yes it is part of life and life happens but puppies are pets and have no place in a snakes mouth. I have kids and would have a fit if this was at my kids school. I have snakes and feed them but would never feed my snakes anything that was alive just becasue i think it is not a nice or normal thing to sit there and watch. but that is my opintion. It just makes me think what this world is coming to when people enjoy watch another kill another animal and eat it. yes again it is life but i think people should take more time into watching things that are not so nasty to watch. again i am not saying anything about anyone just my opintion and like the saying goes opintions are like a@@holes and everyone has one.and again i own snakes and lizards. lol

[annieb_mice]

Lizlady... While I agree with you in that I wouldn't feed my snakes a dog or cat, I see no problem if others chose to do so in their OWN home, NOT in a school classroom. <Sorry, but that's really just asking for trouble.> I don't agree with live feeding regardless of the animal. This teacher showed extremely poor judgement, but I really don't think he should lose his job over that one incident. If he had a history of doing stuff like this, then I think there should be some sort of "investigation" to determine if he is actually fit to be teaching. Also, let's not forget, these are high school kids, not kindergartners. I'm sure most of them have already seen some "nasty" stuff including drugs, knifings, shootings, beatings, ect. High school isn't all sunshine and flowers these days.
About the puppies, they were going to be killed anyways. While I think the teacher should have used prekilled rabbits or another "natural" food item

[annieb_mice]

Lizlady... While I agree with you in that I wouldn't feed my snakes a dog or cat, I see no problem if others chose to do so in their OWN home, NOT in a school classroom. <Sorry, but that's really just asking for trouble.> I don't agree with live feeding regardless of the animal. This teacher showed extremely poor judgement, but I really don't think he should lose his job over that one incident. If he had a history of doing stuff like this, then I think there should be some sort of "investigation" to determine if he is actually fit to be teaching. Also, let's not forget, these are high school kids, not kindergartners. I'm sure most of them have already seen some "nasty" stuff including drugs, knifings, shootings, beatings, ect. High school isn't all sunshine and flowers these days.
About the puppies, they were going to be killed anyways. Do you have any idea how many cute little puppies or kittens are killed in shelters everyday? I'm sorry to say this, but NOT every puppy has a home. These two certainly didn't. Their owner dumped them at a shelter which was going to kill them. If these animals are going to be killed anyways, why not at least make use of their bodies? Shelters are always complaining about the lack of funds, why not sell their dead animals to zoos or wildlife rehabs to be used as food? It would benefit the zoos to get lowcost animals and the shelters would get some much needed funding.
I think the teacher should have used prekilled rabbits or another "natural" food item, or at least fed the snakes AFTER the students had left.
Dang... I did it again... okay... how many people did I offend this time? LOL!
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

[hhw]

Personally, if I state my opinion and back it up with reasoning and somebody gets offended, I don't pay it any attention. As far as I'm concerned, any person who can not tolerate another's well thought out opinion is too narrowminded to worry about.

With that said, as I expressed in the other thread, I don't believe dogs and cats merit the special treatment they are afforded in Western culture. Anyone who eats meats like pork and says dogs and cats should not be used for food is either:
a) Ethnocentrically biased.
b) A hypocrite.
c) Both.

Pigs are just as intelligent as dogs, so there are no grounds for arguing for the welfare of dogs or cats over pigs based on their intelligence, welfare, or degree of suffering. In fact, since dogs and cats are currently euthanized humanely with vet products while pigs are killed in a cost effective, assembly-line like manner where they are perfectly cognisant of their coming deaths, I would question why you aren't more concerned about the suffering of pigs than dogs and cats.

Now, if that offended anyone, point out any hate-filled bias or anything else of a truly offensive nature. The only bias I possess is against people unable to exercise logic or think for themselves, and for that I will not apologize. If you want to argue against the use of dogs or cats based on their cuteness or your affection for them as pets, realize that you are biased and accept criticism for your lack of objectivity.

On another note, the TT person from the original site made an interesting point. Many people who argue against the use of cats or dogs as food aren't doing so so much because they can't stand the thoughts of their beloved pets suffering or being put to death. Rather, it's a question of whether or not they have to deal with it themselves or leave it to farmers and never think about the lives of the animals when they eat their meat. For cats and dogs, animals that people see everyday, it's much more difficult for people to dissociate the animal from the meat.

[herpslave]

Personally I believe only dogs of old age or a non spreadable diseased dopg that dies for these reasons should only be fed to a snake. A reason would be rats don't usually live upto 15 years or more like a dog or cat. I myself Feed snakes rats ofcoarse, But not dogs. Don't mean to be argumentitive but thats my opinion. Since there are 2 dogs in my house. And a 4 and a half foot bp in my house.

[Will]

Keep in mind, I wasn't realy bothered by this story, but believe the teacher should have known better...

That's fine and dandy that you believe there is a Western bias when it comes to this. You have to realize though that we do not live in a cultural vacuum(although some could argue that ;) ). There are certain norms in our society that are generally frowned on - Eating puppies and kittens is one while eating cows and pigs isn't. It is true that there is a bias towards some animals over others in Western cultures, but guess what...? We are living in a Western culture and whether we like them or not those norms are there - and so is that teacher. As such, he should have realized the probability of the reaction to this...

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Originally posted by lizlady
It just makes me think what this world is coming to when people enjoy watch another kill another animal and eat it.

What the hell?! Nobody does(or most people dont) "Enjoy" watching this! Nobody ever said that. That kind of ridiculous.

--------------------

Why are we trying to give a place/value to other animals inhabiting this world? Are we the eternal gods deciding everything? I think that the spider hiding over there in the corner of your room is just as important as you are. If the spider got killed? Would it change the world completely? No. If you got killed, would it change the world completly? No. Would it change a little? Yes. We have people that care about us and love us, but the spider doesnt. Just because some animals dont exactly have a social status, doesnt mean they have any less importance in how our world works.

I totally think that what the teacher did was wrong, because maybe in his mind he knew and understood the logic of what was going to happen, but the kids didnt. Its just put a bad image on us.

Would I feed my dog to a retic/annaconda/rock? No. Why? because I care about him and his life, sure, maybe its a little biased, but I care the same for all my herps. Even though I cant really express any emotions to them, and they cannot to me, I can love that fact that they are alive and take care of them, and preserve their life. So I cant cuddle them, but do I really care? No. To me, its more about being nice to the animal and giving it a better chance of survival in this world.

I think our conversations are useless, as the whole of us(our site "family") are NEVER going to agree completly on this, so in my opinion its kind of no use arguing. I think we all(or most of us) can agree that maybe some of us my have fed the pupies off, but not infront of the kids. Just wasnt a smart thing to do.

C.

-Edited for Typo

[annieb_mice]

HHW.... I agree with you about the cruel way pigs, cows, poultry, and other animals are killed so humans can eat. I don't eat a lot of meat, but what I do eat, I prefer to buy from a local farm that humanely raises and kills it's own animals. Yes, I still buy meat from supermarkets. :P There is a difference in taste though from the farm raised animals, to the supermarket cuts.
In Western culture we place very little value on cows, yet in other cultures the cow is revered. You are correct in that pigs are very intelligent. I think pigs are the only other animal, besides humans, that can have orgasms, not that THAT really matters here... but still. :)
Mind you, in other cultures they eat horses and drink camel's milk. In many other parts of the world insects are considered a food source, and some are considered a delicacy.
Oh darn, I got off topic... or did I? I can't remember.... oh well...
I'm gonna go and enjoy my iced lemonade and do the Time Warp again! :)
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Originally posted by annieb_mice
You are correct in that pigs are very intelligent. I think pigs are the only other animal, besides humans, that can have orgasms, not that THAT really matters here... but still. :)

And I heard Dolphins are the only others that do it for pleasure. LOL.:D

C.

[madison.s]

CHRISANDBOIDS14, the only reason someone would get upset with what i said is if you like to watch....there are lots of people that like to watch, like it is a big thrill to see and some people watch because it is fasinating. i know lots of people that like to feed live because they think it is fasinating, and that is up to the person. and again opintions are like a@@holes and everyone has one so if you dont like what i said thats fine but dont try to say that people dont like to watch, some people just like to watch to see it and that is fine but not for me.. if you like to watch then thats up to you too and i dont care, i feed frozen and that is up to me. man it is just a opintion no need to get hissy about it.

[concept3]

i personally do not see anything wrong with feeding puppies to snakes. It also makes me sick that anyone would make such a big deal about it. Many people would argue rats are smarter than dogs. These kids who cry when the teacher tells them he is gonna feed a puppy to a snake have a lifetime of hurt infront of them. Its ridiculous.

[thunder]

i totally agree. now, while i would not kill my dog and feed him off, this does not mean i wouldnt feed some other dog or cat off if opportunity presented itself. and for whoever said that rats dont live long so it doesnt matter, they can live for 15 years. in my opinion, it is one of the most basic facts of life that some animals eat other animals. i dont care whether these animals are smart, cute or long lived. i feed my animals whatever is 1) healthy 2)costeffective. i do not feed pets to other pets for no reason, but if one of my animals was to be mortally injured or killed, i see no reason why the body should not be used in any way that benefits.

[marisa]

Hell, I'd feed neighborhood children if it was cost effective, healthy, and not illegal :P

Marisa

[maritimExotics]

my opinion, the teacher was stupid for not thinking before opening his mouth, doing things at home are one thing but at school was a big no no. like others said i couldn't feed cats or dogs but i see nothing wrong with it if its dead and wouldn't harm the snake, though it would be unhumain to breed dogs for food. i do agree that like the natives we should not wast the body and it be meaningless, nobody wanted these dogs so its not as if they were pets with names...and NO he should not be fired for being stupid

[timminsreptiles]

I also agree altho i dont think it shouldve been done in front of a classroom full of kids that dont understand......feeding puppies or kittens (prekilled of corse) to any animal is no diff from feeding rats or rabbits. Just because dogs and cats or any animal for that matter are smarter than others, dont give them more of a right to live. I myself would never go and kill my dog so to feed my snakes but i do think that feeding an animal that will be killed and burried anyway is justified rather than letting it rot away...at least it can die with some dignity and its life has not been totally wasted......and thats what i say

[Samba]

I posted these news articles as a response/continuation of the topic in the “Feeding” thread. I haven’t been able to read your responses until now, so here is my take:

The teacher was ignorant, but if it was a crime to be stupid we'd all be locked up at some point and time (no offense, guys). Humans aren't perfect, and we shouldn't judge anyone, no matter the situation. Personally, I'd like to think the teacher caused this whole commotion to get the public to see the epidemic going on. People are so desensitized that it really takes something like this to get them to care, to speak, to act. No one wanted these puppies before this guy was to feed them off, but, oh, so fast did they find homes after being 'spared'!!

This man shouldn't loose his job... how many people would have been outraged if he said he was going to feed live rats to these snakes? No one would have said a thing, the students probably wouldn't have cried, and the snakes would have been fed. Those rats wouldn't have found loving homes in which to grow old...


Originally posted by Rebecca
Even so it's still kinda sad. I mean that was someones pet or could have been someones pet if it had been aloud to live right.


Rebecca: It IS sad, but these puppies weren't pets. If they had been pets they wouldn't be sitting in a shelter. These puppies are pets now, because this man actually saved their lives. From what I understand, they were both adopted. (Where were these people before this all happened???)

Originally posted by annieb_mice
So many people disagree with using dogs or other "pet" animals as food, yet they refuse to have their animals fixed and many people actually add to problem by purposely breeding their animals .... so they can let their children see the babies or whatever

I agree, totally. I once met a woman at a petstore who did just that… allowed her cat to become pregnant so she could show her children the ‘miracle of birth.’ When I asked her what would become of the kittens, she said she would take them to a shelter. I became so upset - she wouldn’t even consider how she could show them a ‘nature’ program, or videotape someone else’s (human or pet) birth. She just didn’t get it; she wanted to show her children how special birth is, and then how worthless the animals are… (by discarding them afterwards).

Originally posted by lizlady
yes it is part of life and life happens but puppies are pets and have no place in a snakes mouth.

Puppies are prey, and they can and do become eaten in some parts of the world by snakes, and even by humans!

Originally posted by annieb_mice
If these animals are going to be killed anyways, why not at least make use of their bodies? Shelters are always complaining about the lack of funds, why not sell their dead animals to zoos or wildlife rehabs to be used as food? It would benefit the zoos to get lowcost animals and the shelters would get some much needed funding.

I need not say anything, I think that is a brilliant idea!

Originally posted by hhw
Pigs are just as intelligent as dogs, so there are no grounds for arguing for the welfare of dogs or cats over pigs based on their intelligence, welfare, or degree of suffering. In fact, since dogs and cats are currently euthanized humanely with vet products while pigs are killed in a cost effective, assembly-line like manner where they are perfectly cognisant of their coming deaths, I would question why you aren't more concerned about the suffering of pigs than dogs and cats.

I agree, Hhw. I am an animal lover with a particular fondness for pigs (don’t ask me why…). They are incredibly smart animals… They certainly deserve a lot more credit than people give.

Most slaughterhouses have the doomed animals lined up, so they can wait their turn while watching the others preceding them in line die. Animals are far from stupid… they know what’s going on… can you even imagine their terror? They’ve grown up being fed and cared for by humans, then suddenly their ‘protectors’ murder them. The very thought makes me squeamish.

And here we are… crying about a few puppies. Although I think they should be gassed first (the way rodents are); no animal should suffer if it doesn’t have to…

Feeding live is inexcusable for any species of mammal.

[treegirl]

I remember when I was in the second or third grade (YEARS ago!lol) and our class went to a Nature Center for a field trip. They had all sorts of animals there and many of them were brought out so we kiddies could have a looksy.... well, then they gathered us around close and we sat on the ground huddled together as they brought a snake out and put it on the floor too. I remember being fascinated by the snake as were many of the students. Then they took out a live mouse, held its tail down and let the snake do it's thing. I personally was horrified. I was too young and didn't really understand what was going on. Some of the kids started to cry. I always thought it was cruel that they held that mouses tail down so it couldn't get away...no chance. . I've never been afraid of snakes and admire them greatly. But still as an adult I question why that was something the nature center viewed as important for young children to view in that way.

My mother grew up in Texas and she had a school field trip to a slaughter house. Go figure.

[Samba]

I guess they thought they were demonstrating some of the facts of life. Today, we are way too intelligent, have technology and have way too many different aides to subject children to something like that, but believe it or not, many people, including educators, choose not to use them, instead prefering a 'real' experience. If I had witnessed something like that I would have been horrified too!

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Originally posted by lizlady
CHRISANDBOIDS14, the only reason someone would get upset with what i said is if you like to watch....there are lots of people that like to watch, like it is a big thrill to see and some people watch because it is fasinating. i know lots of people that like to feed live because they think it is fasinating, and that is up to the person. and again opintions are like a@@holes and everyone has one so if you dont like what i said thats fine but dont try to say that people dont like to watch, some people just like to watch to see it and that is fine but not for me.. if you like to watch then thats up to you too and i dont care, i feed frozen and that is up to me. man it is just a opintion no need to get hissy about it.

Sorry, guess I misunderstood your post, and at the time was in a bad mood(had just fought with parents). Anyways, I thought you meant that people enjoy watching beings kill others. I understand what you mean about the "facination" part. When I was younger and had my first snake, I would feed live most of the time(I did watch the whole feeding) because it was very intriguing, but soon after I switched cause I knew what it looked like and I was explained the benefits(or how it was better) to feed frozen thawed. Anyways, just to clarify.

Cheers!

C.