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CDN-Cresties
07-23-04, 04:09 PM
Hey everyone I found this site/article on another forum and I found it quite interesting. Please read it and post your opinion.
Thanks

(www.krypticmorphs.com) under the heading: FURS...look for some pics.

Rhacodactylus ciliatus

-A Species Full of Variation

By: Brad Teague

Rhacodactylus ciliatus comes in multifarious shapes, sizes, colors, patterns, and have other small attributes which creates complications understanding other breeders methods of classifying these differences. Since the rediscovery of this once thought to be extinct species in 1994, drastic breeding efforts have been ensured for its existence in the wild and the pet trade for years to come.

A downfall among breeders is their ability to keep records, or lack there of. Most locality and collection data either hasn't surfaced or wasn't ever recorded and dispensed to buyers. This has resulted in a melting pot of Cresteds throughout collections. The different localities of Rhacodactylus leachianus recorded has been both detrimental and helpful to the success of pure bred localities in most collections, but in other cases ignored. Hopefully, as more field research is done there will be a better guide classifying the different localities of Rhacodactylus ciliatus. Until then, I have placed my Rhacodactylus ciliatus into three separate groups, each of which I assume comes from a separate locale in the wild.

The three different categories are Giant/Fur, Beaded, and Normal. What has driven me to diversify Cresteds into three different categories are obvious physical characteristics. Having a large collection of Rhacodactylus ciliatus gives me the reassurance that my theories are true. I have done numerous background checks among breeders to locate examples of some of the more rare categories, which unfortunately very few geckos have actually shown up in their collections. Thus far, I have been unable to discover where these categories originate, or what individual shipments they may have been brought in on. I am afraid this will never surface due to lack of proper record keeping on many individuals be halves.

Giant/Fur crested geckos are what I would imagine one would see in the wild. They aren't boldly colored, but rather drab browns, olive, and yellowish tan in coloration. The colors on true 100% Giants/Furs may deviate hobbyist's interest in this category. The characteristic that stands out among others differing from normals is the amount of spikes on the back region. These spiked scales are found both condensed and scattered across the back region and ventures down the sides a bit, continuing down to the base of the tail. The smooth scales, covering the body appear rough and enlarged, unlike the majority of the smooth appearing Normals. The robust body of Giants and Furs is also very noticeable, looking larger than Normal Crested Geckos. The wide triangular head is a trait also seen in this category. The Crown trait is noted in this group. This trait is seen when the fleshy points on each side of the head droop down with large spines. I have seen many people who assume they have this category, but in all reality the specimens are hardly the real deal. I am not saying others don't exist. I just think they are so far away from being 100% Giants that it isn't worth further investigation.

Accidentally, I have found when a Giant is crossed with a normal you get offspring that have nicer coloring, but lack the full amount spikes as a 100%. These crosses I refer to as 50% Giants/Furs. I imagine some examples in collections have the attributes resembling Giants/Furs, but I predict that these are far from true or 50% crosses. A few extra spikes are ludicrous examples I have seen from people claiming they have this category. I can say that a few specimens in my collection are from a shipment brought over from a European. This shipment is very vague, but not all of my Giants/Fur examples come from this shipment. It is also important to note that Giants/Furs are NOT common in Europe.

Another category are Beaded's, which is represented in various extremities. The most valid and valuable example is a specimen lacking any traces of spikes on its body and head region. Representatives from this category are short in length, very robust in girth, and are usually very drab in coloration as well. Some of the nicest Beadeds I have are Chocolate colored specimens. I have the fewest of this category in my collection. The appearance of Beadeds can also be described as smooth and pebbly. The round shape of the scales are more noticeable than a Normal cresteds scales, but aren't as pronounced and spiny as the Furs/Giants. I have seen examples with a few spikes above the eyes and on the neck, tapering down the back. I still classify these as Beaded's. Its extremely hard to judge specimens of this category without seeing a true Beaded and a Normal side by side in real life. I believe that few true Beaded exist in captive collections today.

Now, the Normals are the most common in collections today. Normals have uniform scales, spikes, while the color and pattern is very variable. The spikes on the back are uniform and go in two rows along each side of the back. It is common to see a few spikes astray from each line, but this doesn't classify as a Fur or Giant crested. Normals have been the most widely bred group in captivity. The variance in colors are extraordinary. To think same species of gecko can be brick red, white, or banded like a tiger... the possibilities are endless

I hope this breakdown has helped people to see the various categories of Cresteds existing in the hobby today. As more people come to terms with these awesome variations their popularity will soar. The high price tag on Beadeds and Furs/Giants are well worth the gecko you will have in hand.

AnthonyC
07-23-04, 04:43 PM
Personally, I don't see either of them "catching on" any time soon.

Brad brought some of his "fur" Cresteds to a show a while back for me to see in person. While I did see a difference and thought they were pretty cool, they are very drab in color (as Brad has said himself) and I don't know that the trait is desirable enough to justify the fact that the gecko has no color.

I've talked to Philippe de Vosjoli about the larger Cresteds, which he says are found on a small island in the northern most range of R. ciliatus. He said that on average, the ones he collected were only 10% longer, but were a little bit more than 10% heavier.

I think a slightly larger Crested or one with larger crests would be cool, but not at the expense of color or pattern. As far as structural traits are concerned, the only one I'm particularly fond of is the "Crowned" trait, which refers to a wider than normal head and can appear on some very nicely colored geckos...which are usually very stocky in build.

To that effect, I think that if these traits can be selectively bred to have better colors, there will be a demand for them. To do that, we pretty much have to start from scratch and breed "fur to fur" or "giant to giant" and then take the prettiest of their offspring and breed them together...just like what has been done with other Cresteds. The problem with this is that there aren't as many of these "fur" or "giant" Cresteds in captivity, which means that the gene pool is shallow and that we may end up seeing genetic defects caused by inbreeding.

For example, my orange line dalmatians (of German origin) come from drab colored animals and are the largest Cresteds I've seen in person. Whether or not they're the "giants" that Brad speaks of, I don't know. They have been selectivly bred together to produce brighter and brighter offspring, and are just now getting to the point that I would say they have good color. On average, they grow much faster than my others, with 12 month old animals hitting 45 grams and babies weighing as much as 4 grams at only 4 weeks of age. While they are big and getting bright, I now feel that it's time to start outcrossing them to "normally built" Cresteds to avoid producing animals with genetic defects.

Having said all that, I think there are some limitations for the "fur" and "giant" Crested Gecko projects.

CDN-Cresties
07-23-04, 04:50 PM
Yeah I have read about the crowned in the Rhac book. I have one crestie that may have this trait. Ill try to grab a digi camera from my buddy to post pics. Im not to sure on the locality thing though, wouldnt Philippe de Vosjoli note these differences when he went to New Caledonia?.

Out of curosity Anthony, how much does your biggest crestie weigh?

AnthonyC
07-23-04, 05:00 PM
Philippe told me that he did see a lot of variation, but with the exception of the bigger ones on that one particular island, there weren't necessarily any "locality specific" traits that he noted.

My largest one is from the German line I mentioned above. She is young (18 months) and already weighs 55 grams. Her mom is four years old and is around 70 grams.

Here she is pictured at about 14 months old...

http://www.acreptiles.com/geckos/orange_dalmatian_female_April04.jpg

CDN-Cresties
07-23-04, 05:03 PM
70 GRAMS??????????Thats awesome, could you possibly post a pic? My biggest is a male and he weighs 45 and I think he is huge lol :D

CDN-Cresties
07-23-04, 05:04 PM
nevermind, I didnt see the pic until I typed my response :)

AnthonyC
07-23-04, 05:08 PM
No...that's the one that weighs about 55 grams now. Her mom is the big (70 gram) female, but she doesn't belong to me. I think I have a pic of her on my hard drive at home. She's sitting on top of a $10 bill and at her widest point, nearly covers it.

Here's a crowned Crested Gecko...

http://www.acreptiles.com/geckos/crown-trait.jpg


http://www.acreptiles.com/geckos/Crested_Pinstripe_Fem_April04-640.jpg

CDN-Cresties
07-23-04, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by AnthonyC
The big female doesn't belong to me, but I think I have a pic of her on my hard drive at home. She's sitting on top of a $10 bill and at her widest point, nearly covers it.

I hope you find that pic, that would be one crazy gecko.