Some might say over-fed (for Marshell)....

[Jeff_Favelle]

Hey Chris, I finally got a size pic of one of the albino het females from your FINE stock!! Over 6 feet and HEAVY. The rat is a jumbo rat. I'm holding her almost head-height, and she is JUST nicking the ground, with over a foot of coils to spare. Not sure of the weight, but I could only take 2 pics and then my arm got tired.

Insane eh? All three of them are like that, and the other 2 new ones are soon to follow!!! Crazy. No wonder I have zero rats all the time!


http://members.shaw.ca/galleryc/boa_size.jpg

[Clownfishie]

Holy crap man, she's HUGE!! LOL... I remember seeing her when you first got her, it's crazy how much she's grown!

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

JEFF:

Geez man let the boa eat in peace, lol.

She may be almost 6 feet but you gotta spend some coin on a larger rubbermaid tub dude, lol.

Are they 2003 or 2004?

LOL.

Cya...

Tony

[Jeff_Favelle]

Late 2003. I wuz gonna try them this year, but I figure if I wait until the following year, I'll get 30 babies per litter x 5 litters = 150 babies (1/2 albino)!! Holy crap! What was I thinking......????

Anyone got a warehouse for rent? Tony, wanna go halfers on one? Ha ha!!

[BigDan]

Jeff

You have to be kidding

You were going to try an breed a female boa at 1.5 years of age???

Are you actually thinking about the animal at all???

Something to ponder.

Dan

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

DAN:

I got to agree with that, much to young.
As you know on my collection my girls got to be 3 years old.
It sucks when you want to see the offspring and try and get some return in funds to support this hobby, but the animals come first and true enough a female should be mature for the over all gain of it. She being mature means a better success rate and a very healthy momma for many more years. I see lots of people pushing there females real early and then hearing bad litter rates of slugs and dead young and in a few situations with lots of problems for the female. I am not surprised people do this cause the wait period is not in there head only the idea of banking on it. I hate the wait but I have no choice when it comes to having healthy mature females, my main goal.

So far my success rate is:

CLEOPATRA (Colombian Boa) x RAMSES (Colombian Boa) = 24 babies - 1 slug, 23 live healthy babies.

MOON (Colombian Boa) x MARS (Colombian Boa) = 18 babies - 1 deformed dead, 17 live healthy babies.

ARES (Guyana Redtail Boa) x ODIN (Guyana Redtail Boa) = 19 babies - 19 live healthy babies.

MINHA (Surinam Redtail Boa) x COUTO (Surinam Redtail Boa) - 21 babies - 21 live healthy babies.

EOS (Brazilian Rainbow Boa) x SATURN (Brazilian Rainbow Boa) - 13 babies - 13 live healthy babies.

Right now all these females are 3 - 5 years old and the wait was well worth it, all became proven with there mates.

Cya...

Tony

[Jeff_Favelle]

Pretty sure it was obvious I was joking. Why would I be talking about getting 150 babies, a warehouse, and all that jazz. Clearly joking around.


I've never even heard of someone breeding a colombian at 18 months (female that is). Can it even be done?

Guess we can't joke around anymore. If you want to question my commitment to my animals, give me a call or email anytime. I'll be glad to discuss it. More than glad. If I wuz in it for the dough, do you think I'd still be messing around with Honduran Milksnakes, dwarf monitors, Jungles, Rainbows, etc etc?? Obviously not if it was just about the money. I could buy ONE pair of Ball Pythons and make 2x what I make with ALL my animals combined. Heck, I could add the already over-populated Leopard Gecko market and breed those too.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

JEFF:

:medsmile:

No burn or insult on my part, just said my 2 cents and I knew you were joking, but incase a few newbies read into this and thought wow breed early cha ching cha ching. Although my girls at 1.5 years are not even close to 6 plus feet. I know many thoughts on that idea of over feeding / under feeding but I grow them slow which puts me last on the market when I breed mine but that is my system slow, strong healthy long living boas. I have been burnt and insulted by a few people on this idea for a few years now that I should feed more but a good size rodent for the right size boid is fine, they seem to like the schedule and for the ones I breed my success rate was good. I am no where near the population that you and big name breeders are at with multiple babies, but sooner or later all my females will grant me some offspring in the years to come.

So again no burn or insult to you, just put my 2 cents from Dan' s reply because the newbies need to know that waiting is better than thinking how big the bank roll will be. I know you were joking because you usually are in most of the posting you do (a real character - lol). Even I do it at times with the rubbermaid crack on the boa in this post, lol. But remember lots of newbies will read lots of posts and judge from there and if someone cues in money, multiple litters and early breeding they assume, wow easy fast cash and not bother researching further in the best interest of the animals. I have seen lots of posts of people jumping in way to early and once I email them. I see the main questions and focus always aim towards how fast a return they will get from it. Not saying all do it but a few do and like in 1 of your past posts about a new crop of newbies gone next month - not qoute to qoute but something like that. Then you know what I am saying is true about some jump in way to early.

Jeff again its not a burn or insult on my part just trying to clear things up a bit for newbies. :)

Keep up the good work Jeff :)

:medsmile:

Cya...

Tony

[Matt_K]

HOLY CRAP DUDE!!! That thing is friggin HUGE!!! Hard to believe she's the same age my female.. Mine's at 4'+ right now, putting back large rats, but WOW.. Maybe i'll start feeding her every 3 days??? LMAO.. Looking bro, how big are the others you got in 03'???

I'm holding her almost head-height, and she is JUST nicking the ground, with over a foot of coils to spare.

So that makes you, what, 5'4??? :D :p :cool:

[Jeff_Favelle]

I hear ya Tony! No worries mate! ;)

Mattie, I know man. And the POOP is just as big!! (or damn close!).

I have 2 others the exact same size, and I have 2 more that are slightly smaller, and 3 others that are way smaller. No feeding schedule, just feed them as they poop and shed. 3 of them took off.

Ha ha yeah, so what's wrong with short people?? LOL! ;)

[Optimus Prime]

Huge is an understatement how much you feed her like every other day?

[Don Patterson]

congrats jeff for some awesome animals and especially CHRIS MARSHALL for producing GREAT BOAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigDan]

Jeff

I figured you were joking hence my first question. But do you really think it is O.K. to grow her to 6 feet plus in a year and a half.

I did the same thing Jeff with some of my first animals and it did not turn out well. I now wait longer and grow females up over a 3 to 4 year period.

These animals are not meant to grow like that so quickly. Boas take a longer time to mature and develop.

Don it has nothing to do with the quality of animals, I know Chris produces fine animals. It is to do with pumping animals up to immense sizes so you can breed them as soon as possible.

Is that the DON PATTERSON way of doing things??

I guess I have a different outlook on how things should be done.


Dan

[Jeff_Favelle]

I'm not sure if its ok, and it definitely wasn't pre-meditated. I would just offer successively larger food items and as I make my rounds every night, I always check for sheds, poops, blue eyes, etc etc. So if they look like they're gonna bite my face off, I just feed 'em. The three biggies LOVE the heat and all they want to do is thermoregulate and eat. I don't know enough about snakes to tell the snake what is best for it. For all I know, the ones that are smaller are underfed, and these ones are on the "right" schedule.

I'm in no rush. I even wait 3 years to breed Hondos, LOL! How can that be "in a rush"? And when these female het boas were purchased (7 in total back then), I did not own a SINGLE male colombian boa. I wasn't even sure what I was going to breed them to. So to suggest that I was gunning them up to breeding size too fast is kind of funny, considering I just got baby male albinos like a month ago. Unless baby males can breed at 6 months of age, I'm pretty sure these girls will be 3 or 4 (or 5?) when they get bred.

Of course, if anyone were to actually just ASK me about it, rather than assume, they would get the facts first.

Boas take as long as they take to grow and mature. I don't put an artificial time frame on it. Some take 3 years, some will take 6. I don't tell them how to grow, they tell me.

I don't have an outlook at all on how things "should be done". My boas tell me how to do it. That's why they are so fun to own. They know best.

[BigDan]

Hey Jeff

I have raised close to 100 boas from neonates to adults and subadults here in the last 3 years and they do not grow to 6 feet in a year unless they are absolutely stuffed with food.

It just does not happen.

Those are the facts.

Dan

[Jeff_Favelle]

These snakes are NOT 1 year of age. They were late 2002 animals. They are coming up on TWO years. I would think that a boa reaching 6 feet in TWO years isn't all that uncommon, is it?

[David Kwok]

OKay boyz I think you guyz should settle down before I take both of you outside and.... :)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

JEFF:

Just wondering late 2002 or 2003 I see 2 different answers :)

Cya...

Tony

[Jeff_Favelle]

I bought them in late 2003. I got them, from what I understand from Chris Marshell, they were a year old then.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

JEFF:

Oh because when I first asked it was there age not when you got them in and the thread has become a little hot since because everyone assumed you answered my question as to age not when they arrived in your collection. Being the 1.5 year mark was mentioned a few times this only made the idea that these are 1.5 years old. So if anything everything has been misunderstood because my question was not read correctly.

I did ask:

"Are they 2003 or 2004?"

And everything flew from there after your answer was:

"Late 2003. I wuz gonna try them this year, but I figure if I wait until the following year".

Also the title of the post did not help the debate.

So maybe this clarification will solve the debate here.

:medsmile:

Cya...

Tony

[Invictus]

Does that mean we can all be one big happy herp family again? :D

[JaredAren]

If you did breed them at 2yrs old that would be a year older than Peter Kahl bred his first het albino females. They were bred at one year of age and they were 6ft long at one year of age.

Here is a link to his site where it describes this accomplishment.
PK Reptiles - Albino Project (http://www.pkreptiles.com/pdf/articles/albino.pdf)

I am not saying it is a good thing to do, just that it has been done and that it continues to be done more than people like to admit. What I do beleive is that at what age others breed their boas is their business because they are their animals.

I do give props to Pete for getting it done and getting the project off the ground. I purchased my first and favorite albino from him. He has done great work with this line and with his many other projects.

[Linds]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
These snakes are NOT 1 year of age. They were late 2002 animals. They are coming up on TWO years. I would think that a boa reaching 6 feet in TWO years isn't all that uncommon, is it?

LOL not in my world :p And everyone knows just how slow I try and grow my snakes, so I don't think anyone can argue mine are packed full all the time. I have one female Colombian who will be turning two next month (August) and is 6+ feet. When she was little, she was fed about weekly, and in to her second year she has been fed about bi-monthly. Not even big meals (not that she wouldn't gobble those down, but my rats only grow so fast and big meals for her aren't a priority - she obviously does quite well on large rats).

[Jeff_Favelle]

Exactly Linds! Thank you! Ha ha, after all our feeding arguements, who would have thought we'd end up on the same side for one!! LOL!!

Jared, I CAN'T breed them this year, because, as already stated, I JUST bought my baby male albinos. I don't own any other males. And I'm not going to cross them with a Rainbow Boa. LOL! J/K. ;)

[Linds]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Ha ha, after all our feeding arguements, who would have thought we'd end up on the same side for one!! LOL!!

LOL not me!! :p

And I'm not going to cross them with a Rainbow Boa. LOL! J/K. ;)

LOL so you ARE trying to create some crazy looking rainbow boa constrictors?!?! :p jk ;)

[JaredAren]

Ours albinos will not be ready for a couple years as well. We have a male that should be ready this year but the girls will need a couple more years.

We do have a pair of early 2002 het albino 50% het snows that might be ready this year. She will be two and a half by this fall and she is six feet and nearly 8 pounds at 2 years old. She will not be bred until she reaches ten pounds.

Female 2002 het albino 50% het snow(not a recent pic)
http://showcase.netins.net/web/reptiles/stuff/f02het4big.JPG
(more recent pic)
http://showcase.netins.net/web/reptiles/stuff/f02het3big.JPG

Male 2002 het albino 50% het snow(not a recent pic)
http://showcase.netins.net/web/reptiles/stuff/m02het2big.JPG
(more recent pic)
http://showcase.netins.net/web/reptiles/stuff/m02het4big.JPG

[boa]

Jeff we thought you had more respect for the snakes behalf now i think you are in it for the cash i have 6 of those same hets they feed once a week and they are not even 4 feet stop power feeding and stop thinking about yourself man.
THANK-YOU
SHAWN

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by boa
Jeff we thought you had more respect for the snakes behalf now i think you are in it for the cash i have 6 of those same hets they feed once a week and they are not even 4 feet stop power feeding and stop thinking about yourself man.
THANK-YOU
SHAWN

Have you even read the entire thread?? He's clearly stated that the snakes are approaching 2 years old.. How much more emphasis does he have to put on that???

[JaredAren]

Shawn,
Sounds like you are in it for the cash too if you purchased six hets. Get real. I know I did not shell out thousands of dollars on boas just because I have respect for the animals and you did not put out the extra money for hets out of respect. You could by six normals for $50 each and do that. I don't see a thing wrong with making money from a hobby that you enjoy. As for yours being smaller, maybe your temps are cooler or your set up was different. Maybe you did not feed as much, but 6 ft in 2yrs is not out of the ordinary. I have yearlings that are four feet and like Linds I feed one food item weekly up until the first year. Then I switch to every ten days.

[marisa]

Anyone who has more than a pair of something and says "I am not in it for the money" is joking themselves. Now, if you tell me you won't be breeding more than one of those hets, that's a different story.

I do not keep boas yet, but for all snakes you have individuals. My VERY first snake, a corn, grew to 40 inches in ONE year. On his first birthday he was at 41 inches I believe. People told me I powerfed him. *rolling eyes* If once a week is powerfeeding, then I am guilty.

I find it disturbing that people come down on people for overfeeding, but when a pioneer of a new morph does it to get the "new thang" out there, it's o.k. and they are given congrats.

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

Shawn, don't reply to any of my threads because its clearly obvious you just pick tiny portions of it and then make stupid replies. Why would I still breed and work with Rainbows, Hogs, Dums, dwarf monitors, Hondurans, Jungles, etc etc if I was in it for the cash? I could sell eveything, spend $100,000 on a few Ball Pythons and then retire.

From what I've seen, your posts are about as good as your reputation. :D

6 foot boa in TWO YEARS is NOT over fed. Linds JUST said (which you obviously didn't read) that she has a boa under 2 years and its 6 feet. And Linds if notorious for being ANTI-power feeding.

So what's your problem little man?

[JonD]

Wow Jarid I love that male in your posted pic...So beautiful!! Good luck with that pair.

[JaredAren]

Thanks Jon.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
From what I've seen, your posts are about as good as your reputation. :D

Too funny! lol :)

I say, nice work Jeff! I feel like I know what you are about and I respect your attitude towards keeping/breeding animals. There will always be people pointing fingers and picking apart what you say because YOU are doing what they WISH they were doing.

And as for earlier remarks that alluded to another well-known BC breeder's "accused" methods, sorry Big-guy but in my mind, those comments were uncalled for and unprofessional.


Anyway, good luck with the project, Jeff. :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

That was weird Tim. I wasn't going to say anything, but it was CLEARLY some sort of vendetta and highly personal/uncalled for. Even if Don didn't live down the street and I didn't know him, I'd still be sketched out by the remarks. I mean, let's look at what was said and make your own judgement:

Don said:

congrats jeff for some awesome animals and especially CHRIS MARSHALL for producing GREAT BOAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said this because we know Chris, talk to him almost every week, and have dealt with him a LOT.

But then this the reply Don got:

Don it has nothing to do with the quality of animals, I know Chris produces fine animals. It is to do with pumping animals up to immense sizes so you can breed them as soon as possible.

Is that the DON PATTERSON way of doing things??

I guess I have a different outlook on how things should be done.

What the heck did Don do? That was just weird. Not cool/funky weird. Just weird weird. Don's bred a TON of things for the first time in Canada. Blackheads anyone? Womas? Pygmies? Monitors? The list goes on and on. Its not like he just does Ball Pythons, or he just breeds a bunch of boas. Don did locality boas 10 years ago, before anyone on this thread bred a single animal. That's crazy. So if that' the Don Patterson method (which it isn't), but if it is, I'm all for it. Proven success over more species than anyone else (not counting colubrids people) is hard to argue with.

Thanx for the nice words Tim. I just wish people would realize that we BREED FRICKIN' SNAKES! Its not rocket science. How all these personal trips get started is beyond me. Its laughable. I mean, have your fun on the forums, and then go to the beach, hang with the girl (or guy), go on a hike, whatever. People make it their mission to take tiny jabs whenever the chance arrives on the forums, when there can be sooooo many other things that are so much more meaningful.

Cheers guys. Albinos in 2006. LOL! ;)

[JonD]

Jeff, I still question your use of fancy paper towels with pretty pictures on em!!!:D :D :D

[Tim_Cranwill]

Originally posted by JonD
Jeff, I still question your use of fancy paper towels with pretty pictures on em!!!:D :D :D

LOL me too! And those fancy paper towels lead to SOOOO many more questions... not that there's anything wrong with that! :p :D

But he DOES bring a pretty girl with him to the snake shows each year.... :)

[JonD]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
LOL me too! And those fancy paper towels lead to SOOOO many more questions... not that there's anything wrong with that! :p :D

But he DOES bring a pretty girl with him to the snake shows each year.... :)

It's all about sales.... If he could afford it he'd have 10 hotties standing around his displays;) Holding his snakes like Barkers Beauties from the Price is Right! :D

[Jeff_Favelle]

Its ALL I have you freaks! LOL! ;) Ha ha, I like a little somethin' on my paper towels, what's wrong wit dat?? Ha ha!

You guys.....................

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

EVERYONE:

LOL, this post went from yakking about boa size to boa age and size, a misunderstanding of answering a question on age to size, to being cleared up, to off topic side battles, to reputation of a character, to respecting experience in breeding animals, to yakking about pretty boy fancy paper towels............LOL.

This is better than any reality show on TV.

Well good to see things settled down and people are having fun again.

Cya...

Tony

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
Well good to see things settled down and people are having fun again.

Cya...

Tony

TONY:

Until someone brings it up again.. ;)

-Matt

[asphyxia]

Brings what up?

Brian

[Jeff_Favelle]

But we should really leave the "fancy boy paper towel" alone, or at least re-name it to "creatively cool" paper towel?


LOL! ;)

[Tim_Cranwill]

We can call it whatever you like, Jeff. ;)

lol :D

[JonD]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
We can call it whatever you like, Jeff. ;)

lol :D Hahaha!:D The Martha Stuart of the Herp world,!!!:D errr, well except for the insider trading

[BigDan]

Please forgive me I disagreed with the mighty Jeff Favelle

Your animal was produced in March/Feb of 2003 you do the math. I know exactly when Chris produced them.

This happens everytime you have someone who has a differing opinion.

Other examples are inbreeding, hybridizing using nest boxes for colubrids and now this. Go ahead and start cutting and pasting comments from your prior threads here.

Tim as for my comment on Don I base my likes and dislikes, comments on my own personal experiences with people and I will leave it at that.

There are reasons behind and more to Don's response as well. So Jeff why don''t you quit with the I do not know thing and you can remove your lips form Don's butt anytime you wish.

Jared no disrespect to you or Pete but just because he did it does not make it healthy for ther animal or right to do. It was done to crank out albino boas as fast as possible so they could be sold at $10,000 each. I beleive you said soemthing to that affect anyway.

Speaking of personal trips Jeff it is funny how your word must be gospel and whenever someone has a differing opinion we end up with a thread 4 pages long. If you think something is not right then you sure are quick to point it out and express your thoughts.

You also have a great gift at turning things around and self promoting without trying to be obvious.

I am not the only out there thinking the same thing I am just the only one saying it.

I have my own opinions just like anyone else on the forums, the difference is I am not afraid to express them. I also base my opinion on fact, science, and personal experience.

I do not have a problem admitting if am wrong or maybe I could have done something differently. I even admitted I did the same thing (powerfeeding) and it did not turn out well for me.

This has nothing to do with selling my animals over someone else's. I do not need the money from this I make a very good living from my real job. I will admit I do like the extra cash as it allows me to buy other animals and maybe retire a little earlier. All I said was that maybe you should take it is easy with the feeding and that it might not be very good for the animal.

Jeff if you are not in it for the money why did produce 200- 300 friggin jungle carpets this year, because you like looking after 300 baby snakes.

At least I can admit that I am in this hobby partly for the money.

So what ever I guess I'm a jerk.

Start cutting an pasting whereever you like.

[Invictus]

WHOA!

OUCH!

That's it... I'm bringing a boxing ring and 2 sets of gloves. It's gonna be a David VS. Goliath event at the Red Deer show folks! BIG Dan against NOT SO MUCH BIG Jeff in a 12 rounds match. Jeff, you bring the hot chick who walks around the ring with a big sign that nobody reads announcing which round it is. We gonna have us a fight!!!!

This forum is more fun than fricken disneyland. :D

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ken, Alberta has waaaaay more hotties than BC, LOL!! They are all too stuck up here! Ha ha.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel Dan? LOL!

Whatever man. What are you sweatin' about? We disagreed on how much I fed my boa, and then you went nuclear and started jibber-jabbering about everything under the sun. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that I could ALSO say “Please forgive me I disagreed with the mighty BigDan”?? Why couldn't you just say, "I don't agree with how much you fed that boa."? That’s it, end of post! Its obvious that its more of a vendetta, because really, concerning this thread, that is ALL that you needed to say. I don't care if you agree with me or not. And judging by your replies and demeanor towards how others post, I would rather that you didn't agree with me.

I produced 158 Jungles because I wanted to have a clutch from every pairing. I'm going to wipe the slate clean (pretty much) of my Jungle breeding stock, and start fresh. They are easier than corns to breed, so it isn't enough for me to keep producing the same animals. What's wrong with that? I paired up everything I owned to pick out the 20 best animals. I'll do the same in 4 years (2 years if you'll be so kind as to allow me to over-feed them). Nothing wrong with that. But if there is, please point it out to me.

Believe it or not, I took what you said about over feeding my boas and thought about it. It may have seemed like I dismissed it, but I didn't. I'll be careful, and I do thank you for the insight.

It has nothing to do with being long-term friends with Don. If you did the same to Cranwill, I would have said the same thing. I would have said the same thing had you jumped on anyone else here. It was weird. Don said that Chris Marshell had nice boas. I talked to Marshell after the post and he was cool, never said anything bad about them. So why you jumped on Don and said something like “I guess that’s the Don Patterson way of doing things” is beyond me. It was just weird and out of place. Other thought that way also. If you had a problem, why not just email or call him. His info is all over the Net. I don’t see the relevance into posting something like that in my thread.

But whatever. I’m not sweating it, and I hope no one else does either. Its just snake breeding guys (and gals). Not brain surgery. Let’s make it s fun as we can. Being a downer doesn’t help anyone. I know it doesn’t help me.

Cheers all, and thanks for ALL the comments. Good and bad.

JF

[Scales Zoo]

Dan, at least Jeff replies to you. He might not answer your questions you asked, or sidestepped the hard to answer ones, but he does acknowledge you.

For some reason, he does not answer me. You can look at my last post in this thread for an example of that. I can think of 3 or 4 times recently where I didn't get acknowledged.

Lucky you.

Ryan

[David Kwok]

Hear Yee Hear Yee... anyone wanting tickets to the handicap match:

Big Dan Vs. Zoolander and Hermit Patterson

Place: Red Dear

Time and Date: whenever the show starts....

Tickets are now on sale @ $50 per person or $75 per family.

LOL

common guyz lets stop the bickering so the rookies don't get scared away from the hobby!

:D

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

EVERYONE:

:jawdrop:

I turn my back and this starts up again....shame shame shame!

OK being funny or at least trying to cool the fire a bit. I respect you guys (JEFF, DAN, CHRIS and DON) for your experience and efforts you all do to increase the Canadian Market and Hobby with quality animals. How you do it is your own business, I hope you all do consider the animals and there best welfare and how the females deal with these births and growth rates being early or at mature rates. Everyone knows my view on it so end of story to that. I do agree with Dan on that issue. As I agree with Jeff that he has some great animals and he is trying to select superior lines. Not sure how many you need but that is another topic, lol.

KWOK:

You beat me to the post, but I was thinking this already.

Place: Red Dear

Time and Date: whenever the show starts....

Tickets are now on sale @ $50 per person or $75 per family.

But 1 fight is nice but that can be like Tyson and over in seconds.

So let’s make this a main ticket deal.

DAVID KWOK vs TIM CRANWILL

INVICTUS (KEN) vs BOAS_N_PYTHONS (me)

SCALES ZOO (RYAN sorry Sheila this is a guy thing…lol) vs “any takers but no arm wrestlers”

Then the main battle……ding ding :medyell: let’ s get ready to rumble.

JEFF FAVELLE vs BIGDAN (DAN UREMOVIC)

I am just joking here, no insult or disrespect to anyone just having fun around the fire.

Peace everyone :medbigsmi

Cya…

Tony

[Jeff_Favelle]

For some reason, he does not answer me. You can look at my last post in this thread for an example of that. I can think of 3 or 4 times recently where I didn't get acknowledged.


"Look at your last post in this thread"? Last post in this thread? Huh? This is your ONLY post in this thread man! Are you losing it? Can I have what you're smoking, LOL!! And usually your posts are just instigating-type stuff, this post included. Shouldn't a moderator try to MODERATE heated discussions, rather than adding fuel to the fire? That doesn't really seem like something you should be posting Ryan. If you want an answer to something, email or phone me. My frickin' information is EVERYWHERE, LOL! I am not hard to find.

[Oliverian]

Ken, Alberta has waaaaay more hotties than BC, LOL!! They are all too stuck up here! Ha ha. ...OUCH!!! It stings!

-TammyR

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha, not you or clownfishie of course Tammy! And any others I forgot and will kick me in the shins when they read this, LOL!!!


:D

[Scales Zoo]

Oh, look, Jeff can quote my wee mistake and exploit it.

Your right about me being a bad moderator by replying to this thread (yes, this time I meant this thread). I'm getting a bit too busy to be a mod anyways :) (see the smiley, I know how you like those) :):):)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

JEFF:

My frickin' information is EVERYWHERE, LOL! I am not hard to find.

You lie...........still waiting for you on MSN messenger, easy to find my "blimp blimp"..........lol.

:monkey:

Cya...

Tony

[JaredAren]

Dan,
In reponse to your earlier post,

Jared no disrespect to you or Pete but just because he did it does not make it healthy for ther animal or right to do.

Agreed.

It was done to crank out albino boas as fast as possible so they could be sold at $10,000 each. I beleive you said soemthing to that affect anyway.

Have you asked Pete why this was done? I said nothing of this sort. What I said was,

I do give props to Pete for getting it done and getting the project off the ground. I purchased my first and favorite albino from him. He has done great work with this line and with his many other projects.

I respect Pete for single handedly getting the albino project going. He was new to breeding boas and may not have known the ramifications of breeding at such an early age. Even if he did, his success was a great acheivement that anyone would be proud of. As I stated earlier, how people breed their boas is their business.

Speaking of personal trips Jeff it is funny how your word must be gospel and whenever someone has a differing opinion we end up with a thread 4 pages long. If you think something is not right then you sure are quick to point it out and express your thoughts.

Yes Jeff is opinionated and I have disagreed with him on a couple occasions as well. That's what's great about this forum, we can all post our opinions and take others' opinions with a grain of salt. I am glad you posted yours.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Dan, I would disagree with Jeff as quickly as I would you. AND, I would call him on being rude as quickly as I did you. That's about ALL I have to say on this thread as <b>too</b> much has been said already.

It's one thing to engage the protagonist/antagonist (depends on how you feel about old-Jeffrey) with personal attacks but it's another thing to try to engage an innocent 3rd party. I've always thought of you (not that you care) as a pretty stand-up kind of guy... though now I'm not so sure. But anyway, that is not the issue here.

The real issue is ME vs KWOK! lol :D

Bring it on, buddy. No bodyguards and no hitting in the face....

Ding-Ding-Ding! lol :D

[JDouglas]

Wow! Are we all taking sides here. Well I agree with no one and everyone.

I beleive in the slow growth of boas but when telling others to do so one should do it tactfully even if you do think the person is a jerk. Otherwise others who read will think you are the jerk.

P.S. I don't think anyone is a jerk but you are all dingle berries.

just kidding

>( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >(>( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >( >(

[Invictus]

INVICTUS (KEN) vs BOAS_N_PYTHONS (me)

You're going down! I float like a sugar glider and sting like a..... thing with a stinger.. that stings people... and stuff...

Meet me in the ring!

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

KEN:

Your on..........I’ll bring my bag of marbles and tranquilizer gun, hmmm I’ll estimate your under 230 lbs give or take the dosage will be higher incase.

RULES:

1. Avoid the left knee please its still healing everything else is up for the battle.
2. Max. 3 rounds 1 minute each I can’t run for longer than 1 minute.
3. Win or lose you still buy me Dan’s Ghost Boa.

:meddead:

LOL.

:medbigsmi

Cya…

Tony

[BoidKeeper]

Chewie as guest referee!
Cheers,
Trevor

[leoncurrie]

After this thread.... I'm getting out of reptiles and taking up knitting!

[Tim_Cranwill]

Leon, I heard that you "power knit" all your mittens. Do you know how unhealthy that is?!?!?!? j/k :D

lol

[leoncurrie]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
Leon, I heard that you "power knit" all your mittens. Do you know how unhealthy that is?!?!?!? j/k :D

lol

Hey Tim,
I have to power knit... the faster I get them to adult size the more money I can make. LOL :p

[Tim_Cranwill]

Man, you need to take some time to think about the mittens.... the mittens!!!

[David Kwok]

You guys are making want to get out of snakes and start making a living doing underwater basket weaving!

LOL

[MouseKilla]

Won't someone PLEASE think of the mittens?! lol!

Jeff, I say it's your damned snake, you feed it what you want as often as you like. Geezes. This is nuts. I just love the old "I care about the animal more than you" argument.

With the possible exeption of rescue animals, owning animals isn't something any of us do for the benefit of that creature but for ourselves, whether it's a single pet cat or 700 breeding pairs of snakes. Companionship or profit, in either case it's all about YOU not them. Please.

Also, how crazy is it that when a guy exploits people to make a buck we compliment his entrepreneurship and call him a businessman but if he exploits animals instead people look down on him? lol!

[BigDan]

Dave I think you would be really good at weaving if that does not work for you maybe a hairdresser.

I am just kidding big Dave

Dan the jerk

[JonD]

Originally posted by leoncurrie
After this thread.... I'm getting out of reptiles and taking up knitting! Ever thought about worm picking? :D

[hhw]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
Also, how crazy is it that when a guy exploits people to make a buck we compliment his entrepreneurship and call him a businessman but if he exploits animals instead people look down on him? lol!

Because animals > people? :P

Seriously though, because humans are (in general) voluntarily exploited, while animals have no choice whatsoever. Although some would argue the influence of marketing and such, I believe the human mind is fully capable of resisting such tactics if there is a conscious effort to do so.

[geckoguy157]

sorry posted twice

[geckoguy157]

Ok i dont know what your problem is with jeff dan he's a good guy i bought a jungle carpet python from him just recetly, i couldnt have been hapier how things went,

And how you are saying he should think about the animals.

BIGDAN
"Are you actually thinking about the animal at all???"

Well i was actualy suprised on how many emails i did get from jeff to make sure i had the cageing and evreything correct. It must have been three or four times. It wasnt like i was buying a whole bunch of snakes either i was only buying one jungle from him thats all, not many of the big breeders will do that.

"Jeff if you are not in it for the money why did produce 200- 300 friggin jungle carpets this year, because you like looking after 300 baby snakes."

yah it sure seems like he's in it for the money when ive seen him mention in many post he reinvests the money back into his reptiles. with all the new projects i see him getting im sure he does.

"At least I can admit that I am in this hobby partly for the money."

even if he was in it for the money who cares if he is or not its not your buisness its his.

All youve done in this whole post is knock people that realy isnt needed. There are people who do alot worse things to there reptiles then just suspecting its overfed. Why would you waste your time doing this why not just get your facts straight from the beginng and have a professional opinion about it.


Tim_Cranwill
"But he DOES bring a pretty girl with him to the snake shows each year.... "

i agree with tim on that one:D


o and thanks for the jungle jeff she is awesome, i coudlnt be happier with her :D

[MouseKilla]

Voluntarily exploited? lol! If you believe that then I have to wonder if you've ever had to work a crappy job to make a living.

Working for a temp agency for a little while should enlighten you, I highly recommend it. lol! If you've never had the pleasure it works like this, you call them and they sign you up then send you to a job that pays say $20 per hour, and you get to have $11. Sound fair? That is the sort of thing people get to "volunteer" for when they need work sometimes.

In other parts of the world people "volunteer" to work because the guy pointing an AK-47 at them says so. An African diamond mine would be another great place to see that same type of self-injurious volunteerism. I wonder why they don't just quit if they don't like it? lol!

Of course if they do quit and decide to smuggle some friggin parrots or something out of the country to make money instead we'll have the bloody Wildlife Investigators all over them. That's when the intervention comes, when birds get hurt. lol!

Personally I think that it a messed up world we live in when we send camera crews with million dollar budgets half way around the world to act on behalf of an animal but when we hear about children stitching soccer balls and running shoes together for 17 hours a day we shrug our shoulders at it.

I say if a man can make money without screwing another person over then he's doing a good thing. He's gotta earn a living somehow and in my mind it's better that he makes it on the back of an animal than on the back of a vulnerable person. But hey, that's just me, maybe I'm wrong and animals really are more important than people. LOL!

[Beardonicus]

I think one of the main faults of the human mind is its inherent egocentrism.....we automatically think we are "important" or "higher" than the other organisms on the earth.....every single living being has its place in the world.....except for humans. Humans are the one creature the world would be ALOT better off without.....so........are we REALLY more "important" than animals? Depends on who you ask and what their level of consciousness is.

[Invictus]

Dude, why must you interrupt our mindless drivel with a deep thought?

:D

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL, Beard, what have you been smoking!!!!


How's life on redtailboa? I still go there everyday to check it out pretty much. I see there's a Fantasy Football thing going there as well. Too cool!

Braydon, I'm glad you're pumped about the Jungle. If I had more customers like you, David, and Andrea, life would be all too grand! Updated me on the colour changes. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised brother! :D

[hhw]

Well, you still have some choice as to whether or not you are exploited in this manner, right? Although you may feel compelled to take on such work, you are still making a conscious decision to do it. An animal in captivity has not had the same opportunity (assuming they are capable of consciousness).

As for child labour, I think people in first world countries are much too quick to criticize. I think a lot of people who are against child labour automatically assume that these kids would be in school learning if they didn't have to work, which is totally naive. The sad reality is, without that ridiculously low paying job, they would probably be even poorer and hungrier, possibly resorting to theft or prostitution.

[hhw]

By the way, I worked for my university's computing services, making the absolutely fantastic New Brunswick minimum wage of $5.75 an hour, when they would have had to pay any non-student several times that for the same work. (I've done similar work a few times since then for 10x as much, and been told I was very cheap) Furthermore, all jobs were assumed to take only an hour even if it required more time. I'd also have to be on standby all the time, because there was a 24 hour deadline on answering a service request often trekking through -15C weather to the opposite end of campus and back, only to have to do it again 1 hour later because some schmuck couldn't be in their room when they said they would and I'd still have to go back.

At the end of the day, the only really worthwhile thing I got out of it is I can write that I was a "Residence Network Consultant" for 2 years on my resume. I didn't even learn anything; as a computer science student, fixing Windows networking problems is utterly tedious and mundane (I'd much rather be working on AIX or SunOS, or even a bloody Mac) But, I made a conscious decision to do it and I have nobody to blame for working that crappy job other than myself.

I'm not sure how many reptile rescues you've read about, but I don't think I suffered nearly as much from my crappy job as some boa having its underside literally rotting off while still alive. I can't speak for other exploited humans around the world though. Unfortunately for an abused reptile, its aptitude for survival can sometimes result in far worse suffering before death than for a mammalian counterpart.

[Beardonicus]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
LOL, Beard, what have you been smoking!!!!


How's life on redtailboa? I still go there everyday to check it out pretty much. I see there's a Fantasy Football thing going there as well. Too cool!

Braydon, I'm glad you're pumped about the Jungle. If I had more customers like you, David, and Andrea, life would be all too grand! Updated me on the colour changes. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised brother! :D

lol Jeff. Actually, I don;t go to RTB very much anymore....I spend most of my time on my site (link in signature-shameless plug :D ).

[boa]

The hets from chris marshall are 2003 i was told when i bought 3.3 for myself and for friends so jeff they are not 2 years of age and as for my reputation people can like me or hate me no big deal i am here to please myself no one else so say want you want.

[Jeff_Favelle]

THE CANOPY! That's right. Damn, I always associate you with redtailboa.net.

Ok then, how's life in The Canopy? Ha ha!

[Jeff_Favelle]

people can like me or hate me no big deal i am here to please myself


I'm here to please myself too Shawn, but all I see are snakie pictures! LOL.


;)

[Beardonicus]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
THE CANOPY! That's right. Damn, I always associate you with redtailboa.net.

Ok then, how's life in The Canopy? Ha ha!

Haha, no problem Jeff. Its going pretty good....you oughtta stop by some time. :D

[Jeff_Favelle]

I'm going there right now man. Does my old username and password still work?

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
I'm here to please myself too Shawn, but all I see are snakie pictures! LOL.


;)

LMFAO

[morph]

Come on Jeff you can't tell me you haven't thought about touchin it just once while on this site...........LOL :D

[Beardonicus]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
I'm going there right now man. Does my old username and password still work?

No, we switched servers a few months back and upgraded the site quite a bit. All you have to do is register a new user name. :)

[MouseKilla]

hhw,

Hahaha you are comparing being a low level computer nerd to being a 13 year old Indian girl in bonded labour stitching clothes for Wal Mart. lol! That's insane. Both are admittedly crappy jobs but one is definitely not as bad a thing as an animal being neglected (that would be the one you had fixing computers) and the other involves intense human suffering which yes, I definitely do think is worse than animal suffering of any kind.

We all love animals here but only a crazy person would rescue their animals in a house fire before family members, right? Animal lives have some value but people's lives are more important, be real. Placing so much value on the lives of animals can only come at the expense of how human life is valued. If human lives aren't worth more I wonder why we bother raising livestock for food rather than just munching on eachother.... hmmm.

Good God Almighty, what have you started here Jeff? Something's gone wrong in this thread and it's time someone took the wheel. We were talking about feeding so I will offer a picture. This picture will depict another feeding sin, not overfeeding but overcooking. Anyone else ever do this?

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/2511Im000109.jpg

I think that this pic will help steer the conversation back in the direction of the original topic while simultaneously offering an image of what this thread might look like if it actually had a physical existence. It's up to you now Jeff, take control.

[Beardonicus]

I hate to throw the thread off-topic again, but I'm just curious about this comment:

people's lives are more important

Why do you think so? What good do people do? I hate sounding like a tree hugging hippy, lol but all we have done is royally f*ck the planet up beyond repair. Why are people soooooo important? Just because WE think we are?......

[MouseKilla]

I thought my above rhetoric covered this but I'll try the same example again. lol!

Imagine you are at home with your family and while you're in your herp room cleaning cages you suddenly have a house fire. Do you grab as many of your animals as you can and push mom down on the way out the door?

Why not? If the animal's lives are each worth as much as a single human life then aren't the 12 rubbermaids you've managed to carry more important than poor old mom? If not her then how about a stranger? If not how about the single most polluting man on the face of the planet?

Does what man has done to the planet even have anything to do with the question of whether animals lives are equally as valuable as those of people?

I don't know, maybe we aren't speaking the same language here...

Jeff! HEY JEFF! Where the hell are you man, it's getting all weird and philosophical in here... I tried to break it up with some gore but it hasn't worked. It's your thread man, take some responsibility here for god's sake. lol!

[hhw]

I don't think life is quantifiable in the manner you've described.

Chances are your mother or the stranger would be able to get out on their own. If not, unless you hate your mother, I'm sure you'd help her first. That however has more to do with your personal motivation: being able to replace your herps more easily than your mother. An objective system quantifying the value of each does not come into question.

Anyway, the way I see it, people are responsible for their own lives, while animals aren't. Therefore, you treat the two differently. It has nothing to do with whether one is more valuable than the other; that's simply comparing apples to oranges.

[MouseKilla]

Dude, you compared your computer job to sweatshop and slave labour, forget about apples and oranges. LOL!

The point of the example was that if you HAD to choose between the life of a person and the life of an animal I think you would be nearly alone in the world if you chose the animal. The lunatic exception that proves the rule.

And if you can't quantify the value of human life and come up with the correct result, that it is the most valuable important form of life that exists, well then I hope someone eats you. lol!

Only kidding of course, we should of course eat animals instead but all the while we should point at you with a slab of meat in our hands and blood on our chins and remind you to thank God that everyone else values your life over that of the cow or pig that has been raised and slaughtered instead. Geez, I'm getting hungry... is it too late to eat microwaved frozen corndogs?

[dave68]

did I here page eight??!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Oh, there'll be a page eight. No question.

12 days left for Crannies Hondos too by the by.


;)

[hhw]

I mentioned the computer work because you mentioned temp agency work; I tried to make it clear that what happens in undeveloped countries is a whole different story but obviously I failed. Of course, I would not equate a crappy job in Canada to anything of the sort.

Once again, I disagree with your example because you are attempting to use an isolated case to prove a much larger issue. There are just a lot of other factors that have to be taken into consideration. I could just as easily ask a *** member whether he valued his family dog's life more than an African American crack dealer's. Obviously, this example can hardly be used as the basis of proof whether people value other people's lives over animals.

Personally, I don't assign as much value to life as other people might. I don't believe in the afterlife, or even souls for that matter. When I die, I don't think I'm going to be sitting around all bummed out that I died. I'll simply have ceased to exist in any way my conscious self is aware of.

Besides, I think the real issue when it comes to cases of animal cruelty is quality of life rather than life itself. I don't think any animal lover would hesitate to euthanize an animal if it didn't have a chance at a life without substantial pain and suffering.
The reality is, extreme cases of human suffering are much rarer than extreme cases of animal suffering.

I have no problem with an animal's life being taken, as long as it is done in a humane manner (all my herps are fed CO2'ed rodents). I'd be a hypocrite otherwise. Unlike many people, I think any animal being used for food is fair game, be it a rabbit, cat, or dog. Heck, the only thing I have against reptiles being widely used as food for other herps is that they are difficult to euthanize humanely.

However, no animal should have to rot or be burned alive. A big deal should be made about any animal experiencing this extent of suffering, and big deals are made when this happens to humans. Crappy jobs or even slave labour, your original examples of how humans are exploited, are unequivocally a much lesser extent of suffering, and therefore do not warrant as much attention.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

EVERYONE:

I am sorry I thought this was a Herp Forum and this section based on information of all sorts on BOA CONSTRICTORS. After reading a few pages where it was based on feeding your boas and comparing age to size......it got heated but it was based on opinions. Good / bad who cares nobody listens anyways...lol.

As in my past response on this thread I stated the thread went into all sorts of drama, very entertaining indeed.

But since then a few of you jumped it up a notch way off topic. Not only off the topic that started the thread but even off topic on BOA CONSTRICTORS in general. If anything this belongs more in the GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA - where anything goes as it is listed.

You all have good ideas, opinions and thoughts but this thread is so off topic this really needed to be said.......its only my opinion not the law.

A site moderator should look into this and see there is alot of cow dung to fill a book here.

:monkey:

Cya...

Tony

[Scales Zoo]

Yeah, thread closed.

Not only did it get way off topic, but I couldn't stand to see another thread Jeff started go over 100 replies :)

Ryan