Purchasing ETB, whats wrong with it?

[2003Slobra]

First off, Hello everyone nice to finally be apart of this board!

Ok, I have a friend who works at a local reptile store, she knows I have always wanted a ETB. Well she told me they just got one in and I can have it for $149! I asked her if she was serious and to tell me the truth, to tell me if anything was wrong with it, ect. Also, for the first 4 years of the snakes life it is warrentied, if it dies due to natural causes, I get a full refund or a new snake! Now to my questions. I know there is a way to tell the species apart, but when they are babies, what is the easiest way to do so, to make sure it is a ETB. You guys think I should do so? Let me know what you all think! Thanks so much

[adam2373]

I'm kinda curious as to why the price is only $149.00. I bought mine(wc) in Port St. Lucie, Fl. at a wholesaler and it cost me $275.00. It's very possible they may be selling it to you as a favor at cost. In WPB there is a good herp vet if you want to take him there to have him checked out.

[2003Slobra]

Mostly the sale price is because of my friend, like a inside sale. But I am being way to catious and every thought where something could be wrong with it is crossing my mind. :(

[latazyo]

well, if there's something wrong with it, you have a 4 year warranty, like you said

go for it

[dr greenlove]

Would that warranty cover potential vets bills?

And what do you mean by "telling the species apart"?

[M_surinamensis]

I believe it means he's concerned it might be an amazon tree boa, as opposed to an emmie... And at that price it's a reasonable suspicion.

[CraigC]

Four Year Warranty! Where is this shop? Is this a cb baby or a cbb baby? Anyway here are two pics of a neonate, one right after the first shed and the second about two months later. If someone could post neonate pics of an ATB and/or hatchling pics of a GTP you will have some referance. Emerald neonates are on average twice the size of hatchling GTPs at birth from what I've seen and even though some are born green most are a burnt-orange or redish base color.
CraigC

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/fc490ca45c00b1249bbe3554a4fdf6fb/228_p8301.jpg

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/fc490ca45c00b1249bbe3554a4fdf6fb/228_p8305.jpg

[bistrobob85]

Well i bought a WC ETB too, and i'm pretty ashamed of it... There were about 6 other ETBs with mine, and it was the only one who was eating and doing well, the others didnt eat for months... I guess these 5 ones are dead by now... I was "?%"/$?%"$%? worried about my snake having parasites and diseases, so i had a poop exam done by the vet, and i learned this morning that the result is negative. That makes me quite glad for my little baby, but i really dont think buying WC animals is a good thing... I also think the snake you're going to buy has good chance of being an ATB instead of an ETB... If it's an ETB, then you're pretty lucky and the first thing you have to do is to make sure it is eating and healthy. Good luck!

[2003Slobra]

I dont know much about the snake I mean I havent even seen it yet, all I have heard is "good" things. I am supposed to go see it tomorrow (thursday). When I asked her if it went threw the color change yet she said it was starting, but she is also saying its a baby. Dosent it take quite some time for the actual green to come? I dont know if the snake is WC CB or CBB but I am going to find out everything I can. Even if it was a ATB compared to a ETB, wouldnt a 149$ be a steal either way? Also, if I have problems feeding him/her and the snake indeed did pass away, it would be their lose more than mine.

[Rob McRobbie]

2003Slobra,

Also, if I have problems feeding him/her and the snake indeed did pass away, it would be their lose more than mine.

Lets try not to treat this snake like a commodity.. I would definitely try to find out if the animal is feeding or not.. If it isn't, do you have experience with non-feeding neo ETBs? If you don't, then even 50.00 for this animal would not be worth it if it is just going to head back to that store in a plastic baggy.

Try to find out all you can about the snake ie: if it is CBB CB or whatever.. if it is feeding.. where it came from.. even if it did come from a distributer somewhere down there.. you could let us all know which importer/breeder is came from and make your decision from there..

I just hate it when people say that if it dies then "oh well.. my costs will be covered.." Those trying to ban reptiles because of the neglect they receive once they are imported are just waiting to hear about these sorts of stories.. that animals are disposable..


Rob

[Beardonicus]

I'd say that if you can't even tell the difference between an ATB and an ETB, you shouldn't own one period, even for $150.

[adam2373]

Here's a pic of my 4 month old GTP in the yellow phase.

http://novogate.com/forums/1697/user/26852/15336.jpg

[2003Slobra]

Originally posted by Beardonicus
I'd say that if you can't even tell the difference between an ATB and an ETB, you shouldn't own one period, even for $150.

What does it honestly matter if I couldnt tell them apart when they were Neo's? You couldnt at one point or another, you started with just one snake too, try not to cast me out because I am also going to be new to this type of snake. Is it my first snake, No.

Back to my Post, I just recently found out that the snake is having problems eating and I dont think I should purchase it. They told me to wait a couple of weeks and see how it turns out, I am still going to go down to see it on Thursday though.

[jjnnbns]

bring a digi cam, see if anyone else can verify or correct what it is...

[M_surinamensis]

For most ATB, $150 US is about three times the average retail, six times what a breeder usually charges for CB neonates and about ten-fifteen times what a wholesaler would want for a group of 'em with mystery origins or known WCs. For ETB, $150 is either a good price someone's giving you as a favor, a CB problem feeder or a decent looking wormed WC animal.

David Beard raised a VERY good point... If you don't know what species the animal is, you have no business owning it. Not even if the care requirements are similar, not even if the species can potentially look similar as neonates. The time to learn about a species is prior to your ownership, if you don't even feel confident in your own abilities to distinguish species, then you need to pass on this one and do your homework BEFORE it's got three stuck sheds, has lost forty percent of it's body weight and no longer has the strength to hold it's own body off the ground.

[maritimExotics]

okay...sure i agree that you should know a species before you buy it but people, maybe thats what 2003slobra is trying to do here, i mean thats mainly what this site is for..and to find the proper requirments for a particular species isn't that hard and especially when you have the know how baisis to begin with, but dealing with a ETB that has a eating prob...make sure you know what your doing so that it doesn't go back in a baggie, cause that snake still might have a chance to get into hands that would be able to get it to eat and survive. Good Luck, keep us updated

[M_surinamensis]

I think the idea that he's buying it regardless of the species is what people are objecting to. He doesn't know what it is, but is willing to accept full responsibility for it's care and health- it's a fairly ignorant attitude that can only lead to problems.

[BoidKeeper]

Lay off him people he came here for help. If you don't want to help him fine. But regardless get off his back. He's going through a learning curve just like we all did. How soon we forget.
Trevor

[leoncurrie]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
Lay off him people he came here for help. If you don't want to help him fine. But regardless get off his back. He's going through a learning curve just like we all did. How soon we forget.
Trevor


I couldn't agree more. Everyone on this site feels they are the experts and when someone comes in asking for advice.... they feel the only advice worth giving is negative. Sounds like something I want to be part of.... NOT!!!!!!

[CraigC]

I couldn't agree more. Everyone on this site feels they are the experts and when someone comes in asking for advice.... they feel the only advice worth giving is negative. Sounds like something I want to be part of.... NOT!!!!!!

Know what, I resent that statement. Craig and I have both (as have others) given advice on this forum, quite often taking a long time to think about and type out an answer. On more than one occasion, we've never even been given the courtesy of a reply from the person asking for advice. We have offered suggestions on care of ETBs multiple times, but sometimes the only advice you can give is something the other person doesn't want to hear, that does NOT mean it is negative, it's just the facts of life.

Granted, Slobra is coming here asking for help BEFORE buying the animal. However, Craig and I have both stated (as have many, many other successful keepers of arboreals) that you do your homework well before buying, know what you are getting into (ask lots of ?s of the seller), and get your caging set-up and working properly PRIOR to buying an arboreal.

Slobra, have you considered caging requirements/costs to properly maintain the animal if you buy? Environment issues could very well be one of the reasons it is having problems with eating. Pet shops are not known for providing proper living conditions for arboreals.

As someone else wrote, try and take a digi camera, take lots of pics, and I'm sure everyone here will be glad to give their point of view on the animal. We'll certainly be glad to give you pointers on care if you decide to purchase.
Karen

[leoncurrie]

Karen,
I am giving you my sincere apology. I should have thought out my wording, prior to posting. My post should have read "alot of people on this site". This site has really got me frustrated with certain individuals, giving negative feedback to inquiries or people posting pics of there animals. Again, please do not take any offense to my previous post. It was not meant for individuals such as yourself. It was meant for the people out there that have nothing better to do then to criticize others. (you know who you are!!!)

Leon

[CraigC]

Thank you Leon
Karen

[2003Slobra]

To those of you who think I should not purchase the snake, I understand 100% where you are coming from. But what I dont understand is, you were the same exact person I was at one time. At one time, you yourself didnt know how to tell them apart, do I now after I wrote that post, yes actually I do. I have learned a lot but how can I learn from my questions when all I get back is attuitude and commets I dont want to hear. I understand what I am getting my self into and trust me I'm sure I can handle my self.

But to the snake, if indeed he does have eating problems I dont think I can take that upon my self. I am going to see it tomorrow and I will be asking the seller lots of questions.

Craig, yes I have thought about his enclosure and I have already started to put things teogether to make sure everything is ok. After his first one is built, I am going to be building him a larger "showcase" cage. Thank you to all your replies

[CraigC]

2003slobra,
Check your PM's!
CraigC

[2003Slobra]

I just got back from the Petstore and lets just say, I AM HOOKED! I couldnt put the snake down, I held it for a solid 40 minutes and it didnt even turn its head and try to bite me. I might not know a lot about ETB's but I know everything they had for him was wrong, no substrate, no waterdish!, had a puiny twig for a perch and the humidity and temp had to be WAY off. They said the neo ETB was about 4 months old. I wanted to take a picture but they wouldnt let me. I will explain off the top of my head. The snake was about a foot long, was orange was green spots here and there, its nose was green. It had pieces of the Dorsal white all along its back with the crossbars or laternal lines. The snake was GORGEOUS!

[Rob McRobbie]

Were you able to find out where the pet shop aquired it? Did it seem to have good body tone or was the skin quite wrinkled? On a snake that size, you shouldn't see any ribs or backbone.

If you are thinking of getting it, i recommend using a rubbermaid as an enclosure as it will be all the little one will need until it starts putting some size on. Try to keep it's enclosure quite humid for the 1st week or two. The snake will drink off the sides of the enclosure if there is any condensation and this will help it if it is at all dehydrated.

After a couple weeks and some good hydration, pop a live hopper sized mouse in the cage at night and hopefully you will have success. At first I thought that this size was too big for neonate emeralds but after a lot of reading and other's experiances, I will never offer a pinky to an emerald again.... They are just plain not interested in prey that does not give off a certain amount of thermal body heat..

Hope this helps and good luck. Again I will stress though.. If you feel that you are not up to the task of getting this little one back on track, then hold off for now and do more research on the species..

Here is a pic of the rubbermaids that I set up for my litter last year..

Rob
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v97/RobMcRobbie99/2003%20litter/Copy_of_DSCN3988.jpg

[M_surinamensis]

Okay... couple things here...

One, are you now POSITIVE that it's an ETB?

Two, why were you handling a neonate arboreal?

Three, sometimes the correct answers WILl be those that you don't want to hear.

Four, no... I was never in your position. Buying an animal I didn't even know the species of much less the care requirements with no advance education or experience whatsoever. Was there a time when I didn't know an ATB from an ETB? Of course... it was before I owned any and was corrected before any were purchased. See how that's different from your situation?

Of course, based on your earlier responses, you don't care what anyone tells you if it might conflict with your personal desires... you're only willing to accept comments and advice if they are what you want to hear- so clearly this post will mean nothing to YOU, but it might clarify things for those others reading it.

[2003Slobra]

I forgot to mention that the snake was CB, I did ask him that. He said that is all he deals with. The skin was wrinkled but not as much as you could see ribs or anything. I think the snake would bloom after the first week. When I held it it was moving and looked alert, didnt seem to be in any stress at all.

I am either going to get get a rubbermaid or the small little critter carriers. I am going to order my helix temp controller soon and my flexwatt. With your rubbermaid enclosures, how did you heat them? Just with the Flexwatt underneath? If so did you use the 4" or 11". I also want to thanks for your help and concern, if I dont think I can help the snake, I will hold off.

Thank you Matt

[BoidKeeper]

so clearly this post will mean nothing to YOU, but it might clarify things for those others reading it.
Than if that's how you feel do us a favour and butt out of this thread. You're the only one still not helping. I've warned people once about there attitude in this thread and I won't do it again. I also won't close it because your the only one still getting on his back. So I'll say it again. If all you want to do is critisize this guy move on.
Trevor

[leoncurrie]

2003 Slobra,
If you need any advice plaese feel free to pm me. I have a number of years of experience keeping emeralds. As far as M_Surinamensis goes.... Pay no attention, there is always someone, somewhere that likes to criticize others.
Leon

[adam2373]

If need be 2003 Slobra, I live in WPB and can see what you are or are not doing wrong one weekend if you'd like. Oh and btw do not buy a Kritter Keeper, they can't hold the humidity. Use Tupperware or Sterillite containers and modify them. PM me.

[Rob McRobbie]

I use the 11 inch stuff.. I don't think that neonates really need much of a heat gradient and as long as they are in the 82-84 degree range they should be fine. I would shy away from the critter keepers mind you... They are tough to drill through if that is how you are going to install your perches and they also scratch very easily and look like crap in no time.. Also for the price, nothing beats a 4.00 dollar enclosure that they will out grow in a few months anyways...

Bottom line is make sure that the store starts cranking up the humidity in the cage so that whether you get it or not, it has a better chance of making it.. dehydration will kill a neo fairly quickly..

Rob

[2003Slobra]

Yeah, I thought about the critter keeper a little bit more and I have already picked up the rubbermaid :) Starting to drill holes and mount perches. Going to test for Humidity in the next couple days, just have to wait for the 11" Flex-watt I ordered :p How much of it did you use?

[jjnnbns]

Do you guys keep the flexwatt on the bottom side or top?

I would prefer to use that over a heat lamp for an arboreal, but dont konw the best way to mount it.

It would be much more reasonably priced than a radiant heat panel

[ilia]

http://www.chondroweb.com/Caging.htm

This is a great site to see how the rubbermaid enclosures look.

Ilia

[M_surinamensis]

Trevor, I firmly believe that all avaliable evidence points to an inexperienced keeper about to get in over his head, which will not have a positive result for the animal OR the one who purchased it. It's not as if Corallus sp. are the impossible delicate expert only species they once were, thanks to the hard efforts of a number of individuals (both in zoos and the private sector) in analyzing their captive requirements but thay are not and never will be as simple and hardy as a cornsnake and the time to learn about the animal is long before even considering the purchase, not in a rush after it's been picked out and it waiting on hold with a dealer.

It's entirely possible that I have simply been given the wrong impression about this buyer's experience level but given avaliable evidence taken from his (or her) own comments, I doubt it. They were unsure of the species... Okay, not that big a deal as the neonates look fairly similar but this person is proposing to take on full responsibilty for it's care and well being and made some comments on page one indicating that it didn't matter which species it was- a dangerous and negative attitude no matter how it's looked at. The person specifically stated that they handled it for forty minutes, essentially walking around with it for no other reason than to walk around with it... While it's of course possible to appropriately handle a neonate arboreal and a fairly important step in deciding if it's healthy or not, it is not a safe or appropriate practice to get started with. "My baby ETB is so friendly and loves to come out to play." kinds of mentality just lead to stressed out or even injured snakes (while not as delicate as that of a GTP, the spine and ribs of a twelve inch emmie are FRAGILE). Further comments indicate that the snake may be slightly dehydrated, which could be a sign of many things, none of them particularly good... certainly enough to steer away a first time purchaser who has never had experience with the species (Which species was it again? Does the original poster know yet?)... And they are asking questions about care and housing. The answers they are getting are great but restricted in length and detail by the delivery system (a message board) and a few days prior to having the snake in their home is not the time to be learning these things. Better than after it's already there, but still attempting to tackle the husbandry requirements for a moderately difficult species in a rush.

As I said... sometimes the answer people need is not the one they want. In this instance I think the answer the original poster needs is "Skip this animal, take some time to do more in depth and detailed research about the species care requirements and find another when you're ready." Clearly not everyone is reading the same things into this as I am, but I do not see any indications of the required experience or knowledge needed to be truly successful with the species and I DO see a dangerously uncaring attitude with regards to the well being of the animal and the preparedness it should prompt.

Of course, given past examples he'll buy it anyway... His money, his choice I have no dispute there... It may or may not die or suffer major health problems but I doubt it will thrive to it's full potential in the short term. If he buys this animal now with his current knowledge (he handled it for forty minutes, that says something) then it'll just be a couple weeks before there are posts asking why it won't eat or how to remove stuck sheds or countless other problems that could have been avoided with a more responsible attitude towards self education.

Perhaps I am simply a bit pessimistic but I have explained my position and the reasons for it... Heck, if he promises to skip this particular animal and educate himself for awhile (until he's comfortable enough not to have to ask basic husbandry questions with the animal nearly in his posession), I will personally write him a veritable book of care information, addressing every and any aspect of the animal's care, biology and behavior that he might want to know about. I am not against people buying emmies, I am against this person buying this snake right now. I hope the nuance can be understood.

[CraigC]

Hey Matt
Wait on drilling any more holes for perches. Give Craig a chance to answer your last PMs and talk to you about perches.

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/fc490ca45c00b1249bbe3554a4fdf6fb/225_p16410.jpg

Karen

[M_surinamensis]

Trevor, I firmly believe that all avaliable evidence points to an inexperienced keeper about to get in over his head, which will not have a positive result for the animal OR the one who purchased it. It's not as if Corallus sp. are the impossible delicate expert only species they once were, thanks to the hard efforts of a number of individuals (both in zoos and the private sector) in analyzing their captive requirements but thay are not and never will be as simple and hardy as a cornsnake and the time to learn about the animal is long before even considering the purchase, not in a rush after it's been picked out and it waiting on hold with a dealer.

It's entirely possible that I have simply been given the wrong impression about this buyer's experience level but given avaliable evidence taken from his (or her) own comments, I doubt it. They were unsure of the species... Okay, not that big a deal as the neonates look fairly similar but this person is proposing to take on full responsibilty for it's care and well being and made some comments on page one indicating that it didn't matter which species it was- a dangerous and negative attitude no matter how it's looked at. The person specifically stated that they handled it for forty minutes, essentially walking around with it for no other reason than to walk around with it... While it's of course possible to appropriately handle a neonate arboreal and a fairly important step in deciding if it's healthy or not, it is not a safe or appropriate practice to get started with. "My baby ETB is so friendly and loves to come out to play." kinds of mentality just lead to stressed out or even injured snakes (while not as delicate as that of a GTP, the spine and ribs of a twelve inch emmie are FRAGILE). Further comments indicate that the snake may be slightly dehydrated, which could be a sign of many things, none of them particularly good... certainly enough to steer away a first time purchaser who has never had experience with the species (Which species was it again? Does the original poster know yet?)... And they are asking questions about care and housing. The answers they are getting are great but restricted in length and detail by the delivery system (a message board) and a few days prior to having the snake in their home is not the time to be learning these things. Better than after it's already there, but still attempting to tackle the husbandry requirements for a moderately difficult species in a rush.

As I said... sometimes the answer people need is not the one they want. In this instance I think the answer the original poster needs is "Skip this animal, take some time to do more in depth and detailed research about the species care requirements and find another when you're ready." Clearly not everyone is reading the same things into this as I am, but I do not see any indications of the required experience or knowledge needed to be truly successful with the species and I DO see a dangerously uncaring attitude with regards to the well being of the animal and the preparedness it should prompt.

Of course, given past examples he'll buy it anyway... His money, his choice I have no dispute there... It may or may not die or suffer major health problems but I doubt it will thrive to it's full potential in the short term. If he buys this animal now with his current knowledge (he handled it for forty minutes, that says something) then it'll just be a couple weeks before there are posts asking why it won't eat or how to remove stuck sheds or countless other problems that could have been avoided with a more responsible attitude towards self education.

Perhaps I am simply a bit pessimistic but I have explained my position and the reasons for it... Heck, if he promises to skip this particular animal and educate himself for awhile (until he's comfortable enough not to have to ask basic husbandry questions with the animal nearly in his posession), I will personally write him a veritable book of care information, addressing every and any aspect of the animal's care, biology and behavior that he might want to know about. I am not against people buying emmies, I am against this person buying this snake right now. I hope the nuance can be understood.

[M_surinamensis]

Sorry about the double post, it was unintentional... ssnakess.com has been really REALLY unresponsive for me the past week or so, I got a "Website Not Responding" message about fifteen times when trying to reply. Apparantly one of the earlier attempts at reloading the page worked, despite my still not seeing the results.

[M_surinamensis]

Sorry about the double post, it was unintentional... ssnakess.com has been really REALLY unresponsive for me the past week or so, I got a "Website Not Responding" message about fifteen times when trying to reply. Apparantly one of the earlier attempts at reloading the page worked, despite my still not seeing the results.

[CraigC]

Seamus,
I believe you can delete one of the double posts, try the edit button and see if you wish.

This young man is receiving quite a lot of help that you don't know about because it is taking place privately. Please lay off him. He is working on a very nice set-up and does have the best interests of the animal in mind, albeit we will be talking to him about handling a baby arboreal for 40 minutes.

Karen

[M_surinamensis]

That actually does a great deal to put my mind at ease and I'd like to thank you for looking at my objections in a reasonable light, even if you didn't agree with them (to be fair, you had some inside knowledge).

Tried the deletion thing and it didn't work, might be this specific forum or it might be restricted to moderators I'm not sure. I could try editing the posts to something shorter but that usually annoys me when others do so, leaving me wondering what was said and what conversational nuances I may have missed... better they are removed entirely if a moderator happens by and has some spare time or just left as double posts that people can skip.

[Beardonicus]

I might not know a lot about ETB's

This quote here is enough for me.....theres no doubt in my mind this animal is going to end up in a freezer bag sooner or later.

[CraigC]

David,
That may very well be, but since Karen and I are helping him directly, I think it has a better than average chance of survival. So cut him some slack, please.
CraigC

[Beardonicus]

Yeah, at least he is getting some help from knowledgeable experienced keepers. I still don't think its a good idea though.

[2003Slobra]

I am not going to purchase that particular snake. Too many risky things about it, and it is not very healthly. I will hold off and research some more and wait for the right snake. Thank you everyone for your good/bad refrences, although it may of not been what I wanted to hear, it was still advice.

[Artemis]

Slobra- Id like to tell you after reading this thread. That I think your choice was ultimately a responsible one. Not because I dont think you could have handled it, but because you were able to see through your excitement that the snake itself was unhealthy. Buying an unhealthy animal is always a bad idea.

As far as some of the negative boo hissers go, (and believe me its not just your thread they choose too parade rain on with their superiority complexes and negativity) they dont know YOU, what you are capable of, and how much you know. The quote that bruce lee decided to throw back in your face could be nothing more than admitting you are no expert. That however, does not mean you are incapable of taking care of an ETB. Im by no means an expert and my BP (which is another snake everyone says not to buy as a first snake, but I did anyways because I knew I could handle it) is absolutely flourishing! YOU know what YOU can handle, so while its good to get advice from others, ultimately you have to look inside yourself and honestly admit whether or not you can do it. There are lots of animals Id like to keep, but I know I cant, be it lack of time, money, courage or knowledge, I can admit my own limitations. Judging from your last post, you can, too, and I respect ya for it.

I hope the input you got from your PMs was better than this. And conversely, there are a lot of boobs who blatantly cant and shouldnt have snakes. One is springing to mind right now whose snake somehow recently manged to cut itself within its enclosure. Not surprising, but what was surprising was that the snake actually hasnt died yet.

Anyways, not to get off on a tangent, but I do understand why some folks jump hard down the throats of people who are first timers with any species. Parade rainers, and you know who you are in this thread, its not that your advice is bad, its how you phrase it. Try not to talk down to people so much, and get such uppety attitudes, and your advice would come through in your posts a lot more than your condescension does. What kind of "replies" are people supposed to give to "obviously this guy shouldnt have this snake." Jump off that tall horse and tilt your nose back down before a rainstorm hits! Save your attitude for people who already have the animals at home, and are pointedly telling those they ask for advice that they still dont see what they are doing wrong! There is no shortage of those folks, but Slobra does not seem to be one of them. No wrong was committed here, and you have taken someones obvious enthusiasm and squashed it, and that sucks!

Slobra- Bottom line- Research is key, and only you know if you are capable of handling the husbandry requirements, once you have learned them. So more power to you, and if you want an Emmie, wait for the right one to come along, and when you feel ready, go for it!!

Artemis

[Kimo]

*Applauds Artemis* Well Said My man...Damn well Said!!

Kimo

[BoidKeeper]

Slobra, good for you. You came, you ask and you made an informed disicion. There are enough CBB ETB's in the US to not need to buy from a pet shop when you're ready any way.

Artemis,
Great post! That is the kind of attitude we need to see more of around here. Thanks for contributing to the site in a positive way.
Cheers,
Trevor

[CraigC]

Well sometimes when you try to help someone out it back-fires. We loaned Matt a helix and some flex-watt. We have nicely asked for it back, but have not heard from him again. Live and learn.
CraigC

[tdherper]

After reading this thread, I am thoroughly disgusted that one would take advantage of people's time, knowledge and generousity by not returning items loaned to them. Clearly the only winner here is the snake, although that seems not to be such a great thing...

[CraigC]

Just an update, Matt has contacted us and returned the helix and the other items we loaned him.

Craig

[ATBlover]

Slobra....I'm very happy about your decision!...it's really hard to pass up a special deal and such a beautiful animal like that but you understood how sick it was and you didnt let thet pass by your mind....a few years ago, if that was me i would have bought the snake...but now i have enough knowledge and responsibilty to know that buying an unhealthy snake is a bad idea....I just wanted to say congratulations...might sound funny but i think you made the best decision for you and maybe the snake....btw...your story has made me want an ETB..:P...but il stick with my ATB for now until i get more info on them...Cheers!...connor