Tips for getting hatchlings to eat

[ChristinaM]

their first meal.....

anyone have any?

I have a stubborn one here.....I've tried FT, tried live ( day 2 now with the live pink mouse in with snake )......no interest at all.

what else would you try?

how much time do you wait before another attempt after a refusal?

Thanks.

[marisa]

I wait a few days. If they still refuse, I put them in a smaller enclosure until they eat.

Just brain one, that works sometimes. Also teasing them and pissing them off with the pinky can work but I have only had success with this once.

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

I just house them in the little sandwich containers (the taller ones) in the incubator until they have had 3 or 4 meals.... It's worked VERY well for me this year. :)

[Tim_Cranwill]

As for the stubborn ones... sometimes they just take time to get going. How long ago did it hatch?

Try:
Live
Braining
Small container over night
Tease feeding

Hopefully one of those will work for you :)

[marisa]

That's what I use too!!! :P I use the gladware ones with the blue tops. :)

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

LOL... :D I found some no-name ones at Super-Store that are much cheaper and the lids are TIGHT!!!!

http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/net_pics/babies01.jpg

[BoidKeeper]

I place the snake inside a small chip dip container over night with the dead pinky inside. After all else fails this has always worked for me. When I feed them in the rack I make sure they are inside their hide boxes and I place it just outside the door and walk away. 95% of mine start that way.
Cheers,
Trevor

[ChristinaM]

He hatched 6.18.04.

Right now I have him in a "small" critter keeper. The ones you get at the $store for catching insects etc. in. I can post a pic if needed.

"Braining" I'm assuming is exposing the brain, yes?

The pinky in with him is still alive......it's been there since Sat.
should I remove it?
or try putting snake and pinky in a smaller container?

[Joe]

I think you should try removing it for a few days, just leave the snake alone during this time, then try a fresh killed or live pink in the chip dip containor over night, just completly leave him alone for about 12 hrs...good luck!

[BoidKeeper]

"Braining" I'm assuming is exposing the brain, yes?
Yes. Use a razor blade to make an small slice and squeeze out some brain.

The pinky in with him is still alive......it's been there since Sat.
Yes. In my experience I've found that if they don't take it the first night they won't take it at all.
Sometimes live pinkies scare them. Take it out give him a day or two and then put him and a dead pinkie inside a small dark container and leave it over night. If that doesn't work try it with a brained pinky. If that doesn't work try just a pinky head.
Does he have the right temps and two hides?
Cheers,
Trevor

[vanderkm]

Agree that you should take the live one out - baby snakes are often intimidated by them. Give him at least a few days before trying again. No handling or stress between times. Don't offer food too often when they aren't feeding.

A solid sided, dark rather than clear container might help, as would a secure, tight hide within the container. We found that they like to ambush prey from inside a dark hide. The braining may also help, if left overnight.

If those don't work, scenting a pinky (wash it first) by rubbing it on an anole or fresh shed anole skin over the head of the mouse may stimulate it to feed.

Tease feeding -some snakes respond and bite when the mouse head touches their neck, don't bump their face or it scares them. Once they bite, if the mouse doesn't move again, they may begin to swollow.

We have best luck with luring the snake to pursue the mouse - point mouse nose into snake's hide and create very fine twitchy movements in the mouse (dead) with tongs. Helps if the mouse head is quite warm to touch and damp - scent carries better. Hatchlings are usually curious and will investigate - then move the mouse slowly away from the snake - often they will pursue it- if it goes toward them they back off. It takes patience, but when all else is failing, it does work - sort of like fishing!

Consider trying a day old pink - smaller size may help at first. We have also used just a mouse limb (hind leg) for first meals a couple times - had a lot of non feeders last year.

Good luck

mary v.

[Stockwell]

With stubborn corns, I don't mess around with them. They get offered live once, and if they don't eat.. I put them on the pump right away, same as Solomon boas, tricolors, mexicanas or any other tricky starters, I have a whack of. I do them all up in individual delis, and pump them weekly, assembly line style every Sunday morning over coffee at the kitchen table.
I use Fancy Feast cat food. I buy it by the case for my skinks anyway so I always have it in stock. Its cheaper and easier to load than pinkies.
A few meals on the pump and they click right in.... no fanfare, no waste.
There are literally hundreds of my snakes out there that purrrr when they hear a tin open...:)

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL Roy!

[vanderkm]

What flavor Fancy Feast??!

I have to get one of those pinky pumps - takes all the challenge out of it, but sure would be more efficient than coaxing the little devils!

mary v.

[Stockwell]

Beef and Liver..
If you whack the barrel up and down in the can rapidly, while putting your thumb over the end on the up stroke, it pretty much self loads...
Then reassemble by placing the loaded barrel into the stainless syringe and replacing the nut and plunger assy.
Dip the end into a little bowl of tepid water to act as a lube before inserting

[Simon]

Yeah I have heard that Roy has been doing that for a long time
and someday...someday I'll start doing that myself too...if I can ever find those stainless syringe anywhere.....

[Matt_K]

Simon, come talk to me at the show if you want one.. Or shoot me an email.. :D

[MouseKilla]

Roy,

Very interesting stuff, I didn't know snakes could eat cat food but I guess meat is meat pretty much.

I'm just wondering how the transition is made from force feedings to regular feedings, and whether you have to first go from force fed to live fed then finally to F/T or if the live phase is redundant.

You mentioned that after a few meals they kick right in but does that mean you continue to offer them rodents at normal intervals until they accept it or do you not bother to offer again until they've eaten a few times?

[ChristinaM]

Thanks guys.
I did remove the pinky ( cuz it drowned in the snakes water bowl ).

No hide, other than paper towels because of the size of container it is in right now.

Perhaps I should try switching to a bigger container and putting some tight hides in it?

I figured I would give the snake till the end of the week, with no bothering from me other than tonight to change containers....then try braining and feeding that.

Thanks for the advice everyone. :)

[Stockwell]

Killa
Yes, I started this cat food thing many years ago almost by accident because I had no pinkies at the time. Cat food is fine and certainly contains much better protein, and vitamins than mouse tails or legs which are still used by some for their ease of insertion.
It's also highly digestable. It's temporary anyway and the most important thing is to get something nutritious into them, and I'm certainly not raising snakes on it, although I proudly can say I have raised numerous generations of occelated skinks on cat food only (no bugs)

With regard to the snake pumping, I will do 2 or 3 force feedings, then usually wait for a shed allowing fasting for a couple weeks , then offer live again. I will rotate a live pinky in and out of several containers over a couple days until one takes it. This cuts down on waste. Ones that eat are marked as "feeding" Any that don't eat, go back on the pump weekly for a few more weeks.
With some species slap feeding or tease feeding is also done. This is highly effective for childrens and spotted pythons as well as Candoia and some tree boas. Many snakes that will strike, can be slap fed although it requires some practice and should be done in near darkness and requires remaining motionless while the snake decides to eat or spit it out.
Braining is effective for greybands and tris and so is scenting...
I use a bit of everthing depending on the species, but breeders shouldn't be so shy about getting familiar with a pinky pump.. that is also an acquired skill... The biggest mistake is trying to force too much. You should limit feedings to 1 cc for baby corn size stuff or else it stands a good chance of coming back up

[Tim_Cranwill]

Very informative. Thanks for sharing yet another one of your invaluable lesson, Roy. You're a very open and helpful herper. :)

[dave68]

Cat food eh Roy? Ummm i've never heard of such a thing, and thankfully haven't had to resort to anything extraordinary to get any of my babies to eat. I guess whatever floats yer boat! LOL!

Dave

[MouseKilla]

Roy,

I'll have to give that a try, we hatched out our first clutch this year, a dozen corns, half have eaten and half have not. I'm off to get a pump and some cat food. I'll have to just explain myself at the store, I wouldn't want people to think I was going to feed a stupid cat with the stuff, how embarrassing! lol! Thanks man.

Tim,

Yes it's always great to hear from Uncle Roy, it' been said before that he's forgotten more stuff than most of us will ever know about keeping herps and it's absolutely true.

The best part is that you get the priceless advice with out even a hint of condescention or attitude, just solutions based on heaps of real experience.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Stockwell
With some species slap feeding or tease feeding is also done. This is highly effective for childrens and spotted pythons as well as Candoia and some tree boas. Many snakes that will strike, can be slap fed although it requires some practice and should be done in near darkness and requires remaining motionless while the snake decides to eat or spit it out.

I use a bit of everthing depending on the species, but breeders shouldn't be so shy about getting familiar with a pinky pump.. that is also an acquired skill... The biggest mistake is trying to force too much. You should limit feedings to 1 cc for baby corn size stuff or else it stands a good chance of coming back up

I couldn't agree more on these two points....

and the hard part with slap feeding/tease feeding is that you'll have to remain motionless while the little one decides if it wants to eat it or keep on running away....and with about 100 or so snkaes a year to be 'slapped' fed...its not a fun thing to do...so I would definitely try what Uncle Roy is saying and go with the pump...saves a heck lot of time at least for me.....

I NEED A PUMP!! I NEED TO GET OUT TO TORONTO!!! Sigh...

But yeah thanks for the great advice Roy~! You're great!