New Coastal

[Jungle Jen]

Well, I just added one more to my collection. This one I bought from Henry Piorun quite some time ago, ended up selling it to David Kwok, and just bought it back! LOL :rolleyes:

Here is David's original post... http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32210


And I have to say DAYUM David took great care of the lil bugger! Thanks again David!

[kidchameleon]

very nice

[thunder]

what a looker!

[gonesnakee]

Thats the Jaguar sibling obviously. The way that one looks totally backs the theory that they may have orginally been made from a IJ Coastal cross, not pure Coastals as one is lead to believe IMHO Mark
P.S. wicked snake, I was contemplating contacting David about that one too!

[David Kwok]

I'm gonna miss him.... but life goes on!
feed him well!

David

[Clownfishie]

That's one wicked looking coastal, congrats on getting him back Jen! :)


Jen

[Katt]

Congrats!!! I totally wanted that snake, but went camping the day David put it up.

Fantastic looking animal.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Perfect! :D

[jparker1167]

sweet coastal

[AnthonyC]

Originally posted by gonesnakee
Thats the Jaguar sibling obviously. The way that one looks totally backs the theory that they may have orginally been made from a IJ Coastal cross, not pure Coastals as one is lead to believe IMHO Mark
P.S. wicked snake, I was contemplating contacting David about that one too!

First of all, that looks nothing like any Jaguar sibling that I've seen...and I've seen more than my fair share.

Secondly, as I stated in the previous post on here about that snake, it looks very much like the high-contrast Queenslands that Dave Prada (http://www.komodoreptiles.com) is working with.

Furthermore, the theory about Jaguars being Jungle x Coastal hybrids holds no water and is completely unfounded.

[gonesnakee]

Well seeings how I've been quoted LOL FACT - It is a Jaguar sibling, this is not my opinion, but a fact (Henry, Jen & David should be able to confirm) so ya haven't seen everything yet LOL. (Do I have this straight Jen or am I confused LOL if so big retraction by me Heh Heh)

Yes it does look like the "Queenslands" on buddys site, not too famililar with them though they appear to be an intergrade? Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't know, but would be interested in finding out more.

I didn't say anything about Jungle X Coastal hybrids (stupid cross IMHO makes for ugly Carpets, ones I've seen anyhow), but that many people believe they are IJ X Coastal Hybrids whether you feel its "founded" or not LOL. Futhermore most people that seem to be working with them are getting males & are crossing them into every adult female Carpet they have irreguardless of species thus they will soon all be Hybrids one way or another anyhow. If they are a true Coastal form it will be nice to see those offspring that are kept "pure" versus those that have been crossed out here in the next few years anyhow. Mark
P.S. Anyone doing Jag X Centrailian yet? Or is that too sacreglious (sp?) just yet LOL

[AnthonyC]

Go ahead and throw an "LOL" on the end of every sentence you type, but you're the one who appears to be grossly confused and not to have any idea of what you're talking about.

I'm not saying that the above snake couldn't be a Jag sibling, but I don't think it is and have yet to see one that looks like that. Furthermore, I haven't seen anyone say that it's a Jaguar sibling. If you say it is, tell me who produced it. I know of every clutch produced on this continent so far and it most certainly isn't from any of those. Sure...It could have been produced in Europe and imported last year, but whoever originally imported the snake would have been sure to tell the buyer. If you look at David Kwok's original post, he didn't know what it was, so I'd say that's probably not the case, either. Having said all that, I'd say you probably should go ahead and make that "retraction."

Dave Prada's high contrast Queenslands are Queenslands, period. This has been verified and it's been talked about on the net enough that I was confident in purchasing one from him. Email him or give him a call if you like.

My bad...meant to say IJ x Coastal. I own a couple of Jags and several Irian Jayas and I keep up pretty well with what's going on. That said, I've never heard someone say that they're IJ x Coastal hybrids. In fact, that's a pretty ignorant assumption if you ask me.


Futhermore most people that seem to be working with them are getting males & are crossing them into every adult female Carpet they have irreguardless of species thus they will soon all be Hybrids one way or another anyhow.

You say "most" like there are a lot of people working with them. There have only been four clutches hatched in North America and only one of them (Mardy's) was a non-Coastal x Coastal breeding.

Oh yeah, about the bredli x Jaguar...it will happen.

[gonesnakee]

Well Anthony you seem very knowledgable but also a little uptight LOL (opps hope that doesn't offend you or make me look too stupid Heh Heh). I didn't say it was produced here as Jags & their siblings have been brought into Canada by CDN breeders already (yep thats right & more are coming) & I'm under the impression that this is one of them that Henry had in & had sold (as edited in above post I may be 100% wrong here, but am pretty sure unless I'm confusing this with another specimen that Jen aquired thru Henry). Do you also know of every single specimen that has been imported into the continent as well? If so maybe you can enlighten us all there too LOL. Good to hear you are knowledgable & are monitoring the Jaguar market, unfortunate that this knowledge is not shared along with your criticisms. Best I can do is offer my limited knowledge & ask questions, but feel free to bash. Mark
P.S. Good Luck with the Jags & my apologies if you are so easily offended?

[AnthonyC]

Mark,

I'm a pretty easy going guy, but I'm sitting here with thousands of dollars invested in these snakes and you're spewing forth inaccuracies one after another about them. That wouldn't even be so bad, but your replies to me were very arrogant and dismissive ("you haven't seen everything," etc.). I think anyone would've taken that as a bit insulting.

Bottom line, I've seen enough Jaguar siblings to know that the snake posted (the one you so confidently said is "obviously a Jaguar sibling") is probably not one of them and that if it is, it's very atypical.

I'm not going to argue about Jaguars with someone who has made it very clear that he doesn't know much, if anything about them.

-Anthony

[Derrick]

hehe threads like thise are funny. Riminds me of elitest dog breeders:D

Great looking Crapet. You have a picture of it streched out?

[gonesnakee]

Anthony, I'm not trying to argue, just stating what I've heard etc. Obviously you have much more time & effort spent, so I bow down (jk) I know what you are saying about your investment & I know I myself get the same way when I hear people saying things like "There are no pure Diamonds in Canada" etc. as I have $ invested in them & that will usually get me going too. Anyhow wasn't trying to get to ya too much (maybe a little lol) & I hope you aren't offended as stated, but you did come across the same. Anyhow I am sincere in wishing you luck with them & hows about posting the rest of us some good links so we can all learn more based on info rather than rumours. "most" is a loose term & I should say that "most" people that are considering getting them are talking about the whole hybrid thing not all those that are currently working with them as that is few & you probably do know "most" of them as you are directly involved. Anyhow no worries here man Mark

[Optimus Prime]

Sweet costal, I want one or ten :)

[AnthonyC]

Originally posted by Derrick
hehe threads like thise are funny. Riminds me of elitest dog breeders:D

Great looking Crapet. You have a picture of it streched out?

Yep, it's funny like when you pay $5K for a dog and then someone else looks at the dog and says it's the love child of a Collie and a Cocker Spaniel. :D

[AnthonyC]

Mark,

I wasn't trying to get into a pissing match, but when you know (or even think you know) you're right, it's tought to back down.

I won't go into the hybrid thing, but let's just say I have a very different outlook on it. I believe it should be done, but only in a responsible manner and only for a reason...not because that lone female _____ Carpet is all you happened to have available at the time. Check out MoreliaPythons.com bredli and spilota forums for lots of good, friendly debates about that.

The Jags and siblings I've seen are not all on the web and what I know isn't just something you're going to learn by looking at a couple of links. Believe me, if I had a link or two to show you, I would. I've gone and visited breeders' facilities and have also gone to several large shows (Tinley, Philly, Daytona) to see the snakes in person. I've also been sent dozens upon dozens of photos to look at and pick from. In all the time I've looked at Jag siblings, I've not seen any that look like the snake here...which is why I brought that up to begin with.

In fact, if I had to put a label on that snake pictured here, I'd say it's from the "high-contrast queensland" line (Dave has been breeding them for a few years, so there could be adults all over the place by now), which I had mentioned earlier. I'm also a very big fan of those, so I wasn't trying to knock that snake...in fact, I honestly like the look of that one much better than most Jag siblings I've seen.

Anyway, it's all good. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I would much rather have a heated debate about Carpets than smile and talk computers (my day job). :)

-Anthony

[ExoticFish]

WoW....Nice

[Derrick]

Originally posted by AnthonyC
Yep, it's funny like when you pay $5K for a dog and then someone else looks at the dog and says it's the love child of a Collie and a Cocker Spaniel. :D

hehe what a great line:)

[gonesnakee]

Ya I visited the jaguarcarpet site again to reread the orgin etc. (I hadn't been there in quite some time) & I see he actually has his little warning about the "untrue jags" or the IJ looklikes. I think that is why the IJX rumours started to begin with as people in Europe were trying to misrepresent IJ or their crosses as true Jags apparrently? Anyhow there are some wicked looking specimens out there now & it will be nice when the price becomes more reasonable for the average herper. I have a few friends currently considering Jags & there was actually an exchange of some young Coastal females at my house just last night as a matter of fact. Heres something a little off topic. Do you people think the Jag craze will increase the price of the Coastals, especially the females? It hasn't really appeared to yet as you can still buy hatchlings for around $100 CDN, but what about Stateside? Are you guys seeing the market for them change at all yet? Curious anyhow, Mark

Heres a link for those who are interested http://jaguarpython.com/jaghist.htm

[AnthonyC]

Mark,

There are some Irian Jayas out there with a reduced, yet fairly typical IJ pattern that do look somewhat "Jaguar-ish" at first glance. Anyone who's worked with Jags and Irian Jayas, though, can tell almost immediately that their head shape is very different. Irian Jayas have a very blocky head, even as babies, whereas the Jaguar head shape is very consistent with that of a typical Coastal Carpet Python.

I've seen a few people have begun to ask more for large adult female Coastals, but not always. The reason that people can't get top dollar for adult female Coastals yet is because there simply aren't enough Jaguars out there. Once the Jags become more and more common in collections, the demand for adult female Coastals will rise. Much like normal baby Ball Pythons, the price of typical hatchling Coastals doesn't seem to have been affected at all, and I seriously doubt that it will be.

Speaking of price jumps, strangely enough, I have noticed lately that the average price of Diamond x Jungle crosses is a bit higher than it was the last few years.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Diamon x Jungle x Jag would/is an AWESOME snake!!! Only problem is, what do you do with the siblings if you don't own very large kingsnakes or cobras??

[gonesnakee]

Monitor(s)! Not that I would condone it or anything, gotta be PC LOL Mark

[AnthonyC]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Diamond x Jungle x Jag would/is an AWESOME snake!!! Only problem is, what do you do with the siblings if you don't own very large kingsnakes or cobras??

My thoughts exactly. The normal siblings are the scariest part of that situation.

I'm picking up a nice group (1.3) of 75% Diamonds from the Python Pete line, but as of now, I'm undecided as to what to do about that...which is why I got a male.

[AnthonyC]

Ah...I hit the submit button twice (this server is running slow).

[Jeff_Favelle]

I too am starting to realize what people were thinking 15 years ago when they did Diamond x Jungle. The cross is just INTENSE! :jawdrop:


Monitors Isbell! Of course!!! But Ackies are such wimps, LOL!! They'd run in fear! Ha ha!

[gonesnakee]

Just to set the record straight I talked to Henry this weekend about this snake & yes it was indeed brought into the country as a Jag sibling. He knew which snake I was talking about right away & verified my previous claim that it was indeed one. Mark
P.S. Just so everyone knows there are now lots of breeders in Canada that have aquired their Jaguar stock this summer so its only a matter of time before they start hitting the market.
P.P.S. Nice Snake Jen!!!