heating

[kill3r843]

i just got a red tail boa and i keep it about 75 to 80 in her cage all the time w/o any heat pads or lights.I was wondering if i should use a heat pad or a light i have heat pads and heat lights should i use em

thanks

[HetForHuman]

ummmm yeah you should..
You should give the snake a heat gradient to go to.

I keep all my red tails at 80 ambient, and a hot spot of about 90.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

KILL3R843:

Before you got this boa did you do any research on this species and in boas in general?

Your temps are to low, 80 should be the low end get the high end up to 88 - 90 depending on cage size and type.

I am surprized how people sell, trade or give away boas to new owners and not ask how the new owner will care for the animal, man I am very upset that you did not do your research before getting this boa. It seems that the boa' s needs or any animal' s needs come dead last before getting a new pet.

Geeeeez..............I am so pissed.

Cya...

Tony

[msubigdawg]

Ok lood dude dont be gettin pissed. I mean I hate when folks take animals and dont know anything about them and dont take care of them and give them there needs. But look the reason I love snakes and hope to work with reptiles is because when I was in first grade we bought a snake for fun and that got me hooked. This guy posted asking advice so he can take care of the snake the proper way. The least you could do is respect the fact that he wants to take care of it. Just because you know about the care of these animals gives you no right to get mad at someone that doesnt. Now the worse that could happen is your bad attitude could make him not post anything else on this board and just try and figure things out on his own and mess up. So in the future, and this goes for everyone, if you dont have something helpful to say to someone......SHUT UP.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

MSUBIGDAWG:

I see your point, and I think you see mine....maybe.

He/she can ask all the questions he wants.

And I can answer how I feel best shows how important the well being of the animal is. There are alot of people into this hobby for whatever reason. But till you see it from the experienced side and see animals be bought as neat fancy gifts, something for the moment, and an experiment. You have not seen how the animals turn out. Check out your local animal shelter, each one of those animals had an owner for the most part of there life - and why are they there now? No animal should be in anyone' s care if they did not do the research before hand.

You talk "respect" well start with the animal (reptiles and etc.).

I see your point, now see mine I researched almost 2.5 years before buying my first boas. Loved many types of boids and starting thinking out future out come as my main concern. What this means is you can buy anything as a baby but they do grow so what happens after - think that out. Then I checked expenses be from providing the best care in equipment, cages, and long term husbandry. Next was did I have a local or distributer of food for these animals. And finally I researched was the animals I wanted going to be in my care for the rest of there lives with me, reason I say it that way is they don' t pick there owners and this is where respect kicks in with all the above information. Once you do all these processes and they all are in the positive then go ahead and become an animal owner at all levels.

If you think I was harsh, that' s cool........try this out then go skydiving. Simply book a flight, jump into the plane grab the 1st parachute you see, don' t ask questions or tell anyone your concerns. Once at right height jump, and pray for the best. This may sound harsh, but I am trying to let you and others see how important doing your research is before jumping into something.

The way I read the first post is how I see the boa feeling, it deserved better. What ever reason it became this person pet, it still required the respect of caring for it from the full understanding of how.

On a lighter note I said "pissed" if I cannot express my feelings in an open forum and you are here to be sugar coated on answers or comments. Then your in for a rude awakening there are alot of people who love there animals and that is the # 1 concern no matter what.

Now you went into an emotion of dictating me to "shut up", maybe you should realise I simply said I was pissed I did not attack or insult KILL3R843. I only said I was upset with the way he/she was caring for this boa. So keep your personal attacks and insults to yourself, you went 1 step to far.

These forums I believe are about teaching, learning, get ideas, and express your animals threw stories or photos and so and on. If KILL3R843 had asked this question before getting the boa, then the result would be to me is this person wants to do there best to care for the animal and has asked a good question to get a good answer be it on whatever level of experience you have. But it did not happen that way and the way I feel that animals deserve more respect than that will always get a reaction from people who have seen the end result from people doing it all wrong.

My 2 cents.....if it offends you, well you need to grow up before taking on a responsibility that deserves more respect than you are ready to give.

If I am wrong well my animals if they could talk would say otherwise, lol.

Cya...

Tony

[emeraldlover]

I totally agree with tony. Theres to many people out there who just buy reptiles in general without doing their research many of the animals die or end up in shelters. People should be able to post asking about information and such but for the health of your animal post before you get it so that when you bring it home everything is perfect for it. Reptiles are not like dogs that you can just bring home and wing it. They are wild animals and require special care. Its because of people who dont do their homework that alot of cities now face bylaws restricting the sale and keeping of many of the good reptiles out there. I live in richmond b.c and we arent even allowed to sell a common redtail boa constrictor here because city council fears that once it gets to big it will be dropped at our already packed surrey reptile refuge. So please do your homework!!!!

[David Kwok]

Doggie

In more ways then one your post was worst then Tony's. You should practise what you preach. :)

David

[Tim_Cranwill]

msubigdawg, what exactly did YOU say that was helpful? What? Oh, yeah.... NOTHING. It's always the lurkers who like to complain about the content... :rolleyes:

Tony's reference to sky diving could not be more true. But let's take it one step further... In his comparison, it would be the ANIMAL paying the price if the skydive went bad... not the idiot jumper.

When owning a reptile, the lack of research and education doesn't harm the keeper one bit... but it could <b>kill</b> the animal.


kill3r843, at least you came here to ask. I hope you find a TON of good info and I hope you quickly rectify the shortcomings of your current setup. Take all the <b>good</b> advice you can get and act on it. Take the bad advice with a grain of salt... it's also good to know what NOT to do. Also, go pick up a couple books and read as many care sheets as you can find.

Every hour of research you put into this hobby, you will be paid back 10 fold by how much MORE you will enjoy the good experiences that research buys you. :)

[msubigdawg]

Look I said what I said because I have had the same stuff happen to me and I am tired of it. I am not agreeing about getting something without knowing about it. I only have a problem with when someone ask for help usually 3 or 4 people will just post something saying go search google or how you don't deserve that animal because you didn't research it. It doesnt matter what they knew about the animal before they got it, they have it now. The least you could do, being someone that knows about all of this considering you have some, is help them out. Don't tell them how dumb they are for getting it without research. And by the way he later that night messaged me on AIM and I helped him and educated him on what he would need to do and know. I am not sorry for what I said. I think yall are just mad because someone finally told yall to shut up. I am not saying everyone here is this way its just a large group of yall are rude to folks you deem less important than you because we dont breed, collect, or know about all these snakes. But in the future if someone is asking for advice, only people willing to help should reply to the post.

[Heather123]

I was given a snake who needed a home, badly. As a result, the chance to 'research' went hand in hand with caring for the snake the best I could. Thankfully we have forums and chats like this so that we can all learn because if anything, the thing I've noticed the most about herbs, is that taking care of them is an evolving process. I think its great to advise someone to research before getting any pet but with the understanding that some of us didn't decide 2.5 years ago that we would have a snake today. I think both dawg & boas&pythons need to look at the tone of your post. You don't know the circumstances in which the poster obtained the snake and if its a rescue, lets be thankful that there is someone out there who wants to rescue the animal. Helpful suggestions, good advice, & understanding are the key to helping the poster care for his snake and then everyone will be happy.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

HEATHER123:

Very nice reply, but if you and MSUBIGDAWG actually read what I 1st wrote which is the 3rd post in this thread you would notice I replied:

1. Respectful manner.
2. Responded with an answer.
3. Replied with my emotion on this subject - opinion.

If you took only what I wrote as emotion from the full post then you both never saw or read it completely.

Of course I can understand getting an animal has many circumstances but. If in this case it is a rescue. I commend the new owner for trying to save the animal. But no matter what that situation is you should way out the pro/cons before heading deep into it. If you think this is wrong that is fine, everyone has there own opinion.

When I stated 2.5 years I see you still did not see why I said that. Like you mention circumstances and all, I was able to get into any boid or reptile from day 1. I mean if I simply saw a Ball Python - Albino Burmese Python - Salmon Boa I could do like you and buy it, trade for it, or rescue it........reason I said 2.5 years is this. I felt if I was going to do any good in this world for these animals it would be I would know what they require before I subject them to same or worse situations. It has nothing to do with predicting the future like you thought, it has everything to do with respect towards the animals. Unless a reptile falls literally out of the sky into your lap, then you got at least 1 hour to research the decision your about to make anyways in keeping it. Don’t bother making excuses that people can not do some research before thinking they will be the better care givers of a new animal.

Research is a simple method of respecting the animal, depending how fast you read, you can easily get the basics to knowing the husbandry of the animal you want. In this day and age of internet the task becomes so much more faster. Like back in the day when all you had was the local library with 3 books, lol. If you can be on this forum and on the internet then you can easily do a search on the net for basic care on almost any reptile within reason.

If you’re main focus is to truly care for these animals then take the time research the info you need.

MSUBIGDAWG:

Good to hear you helped via other means, but like TIM said your original post had nothing other than your opinion which had nothing to do with the original post, and TIM and KWOK called you out on it perfectly. And if you read my 1st post you would have seen I gave an answer, not a lame go do a Google search comment. Also keep your opinions to yourself on dictating the method of responses people make on forums. We all follow the rules as the site requests. And I myself have been very respectful here and others posts I do. Since your only means to comment on this post so far is to be more disrespectful then people should see you have less to say that it’s even worth reading.

Well that is my last 2 cents on this, if you and others do not see the point to knowing what you’re getting into with these animals and feel its best to subject them to your learning curve and possibly hurt these animal more, good luck with that.

I - by no means am an expert, but my animals appreciate that I learn and research before I care for them first.

Cya...

Tony

[MouseKilla]

Yeah, that's too cool for a boa, the proper temps have been suggested already. There are a variety of ways to provide those temps, I would suggest a human heat pad as a cheap,effective and readily available solution for hotspot heat and then all you'll have to provide is the ambient heat but it sounds as though you have that covered.

I don't believe for a second that anyone researches their first herp, let alone for a period of years before getting into the hobby. That just doesn't make sense so I don't believe it. Most of us got into the hobby through one of two ways: 1) lots of wild caught local snakes you dragged home as a kid OR 2) an impulse pet store buy.

A lot of us make that impulse buy thinking that they are prepared. I personally spent almost $600 setting up my first snake and that was for a corn that couldn't have been more than a year old (I know, I know! lol!). People have a tendency to believe that the jerk working in or running the pet store knows what he's talking about and walk out of the store satisfied that they can not just sufficiently care for the animal, but even give it a pretty swanky little environment with all the gear and cage decorations they've just bought. It's not until later on that they discover they aren't doing things properly.

It's at this point people stumble into these forums looking to talk to someone with experience to help. The good news is that they usually get it, the bad news is they get 10 pounds of snotty attitude for every ounce of help they get. The worst part about it is that the attitude often comes from those of us that have the most experience and could help the most. It's elitist BS but hey, whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

What makes me laugh even harder than the idea that someone researched for years before getting their first animal is the idea that any one of us started with the animals in mind. LOL! I believe that most keepers genuinely care for their animals and, in a way, they may care about all animals but don't expect me to believe that a single one of us got into this hobby for the benefit of the animals. Be honest and admit that we all started out getting that first animal for our own enjoyment, there's nothing wrong with that, but we did it for US not for the animals. Give me a break! lol!

[msubigdawg]

MouseKilla, I am just glad that someone else out there sees where I am coming from and has realized the same stuff going on. But I am grateful for the few that actually are caring and help the people that need it.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Mousekilla, <b>I</b> did several months of research (5 or so) before I got my first snake. So I guess what you do or don't believe about this subject isn't too valid after all...

I'm not saying that makes me a better keeper than the next guy, I'm just proving you wrong. ;)

[MouseKilla]

Alright Tim, if you say so (not even a couple of garters as a kid? really?), but that's not really the point. I wonder how far ahead you were after that research compared to the average new keeper. Certainly your knowledge of snakes and their care was not total and complete by then.

The point is that the vast majority of us walk out a of the pet shop with our first snake with only the say-so of a sales clerk on how to care for them. If you buy just about any other animal in the store you can get by with what only that info, but herps are the exception to that.

If you want to get angry with someone about that then I would suggest you blame the greedheads profiting from selling these animals without giving the right care information, not the guy who gets sucked into that situation.

Pissing on the newcomer, who's already been taken for a ride at the pet store, not only doesn't help the new keeper or their animal but it may in fact chase them away from a good source of help and advice. How does the animal, that some of the snobs claim to put first, benefit from that?

I'm not suggesting that you are guilty of this snobbery, in fact I know your website has some pretty handy info on it that I'm sure benefits people regularly, I'm just making my point.

The little bit of feigned outrage that started this debate was actually pretty mild too but it did represent an annoying trend that exists in these otherwise helpful forums.

[Mike177]

everyone here are all makeing verry valid points, I know if i was in the situation of
kill3r843 people being rude and impolite to me woulnt make me run out and and want to care for my anamal and better or faster. its important for people to understand that there snake need specal care and that it is never a good idea to buy a snake without prior knolage to there care. but i do think that some of the resposes i have seen people give to snake owners who made impulse buys have been fairly rude and out of line (not talking about BOAS AND PYTHONS posts, not that i have seen at least) but i do think its important not to be rude to newcomes of this hobby. It is enirely possable to stress a point without being rude. I dont come to the boa fourms as much but i have seen it alot in the large constrictors forums. if people just have to be rude then its a free country do as you may but i dont see any logical reson for it. just my 2 cents

[Tim_Cranwill]

Mousekilla, I agree with most of what you are saying.

My level of knowledge was ok when I got my first cb snake but I still had a TON of "first hand knowledge" to pick up... everyone does when they start... heck, I still do, or else I wouldn't spend hours a day reading these forums.

Granted, my VERY first snakes were a few wc garters back in junior high but I didn't research snakes much back then and I saw the effect that had on the animals. That's why I did it differently this time. I guess that's one lesson I carried forward.

And about putting the animals first, well that's a tricky thing to debate. If we TRULY put the animals first, we probably wouldn't have them in captivity at all. But once they are here, we need take proper care of them... we all know that.

But don't say no one researches. I ALWAYS want to prove blanket statements wrong. :p They just bug me...

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

MouseKilla:

I would like to adress a couple points you made:

1) I don't believe for a second that anyone researches their first herp, let alone for a period of years before getting into the hobby. That just doesn't make sense so I don't believe it.

When I first became interested in herps, I had to convince parents(very hard job) to allow me to get one. My father swore there would never be a herp in his house. Over the next TWO years, I did research to show my parents about herps, and learned more myself about how to care for them. My father finnally did reasearch himself for 5 months before he said it was ok for me to get a snake. Then I did research on corn/rat snakes for two months, and for my 10th birthday(YES I WAS THAT YOUNG AND ACTUALLY CARED ABOUT THE ANIMALS), got an everglades rat snake. It was actually sold to me from the store as a striped corn snake. Anyways, point made, people do research.

2) Throughout this thread, not just by you, but by others, was made mention that with herps, people cannot just go out and by a herp without the knowledge like any other animal(Ie: dog, cat, rodent, fish).

This is completely false. You do need knowledge before you go out and puchase any of these animals! It is completly incorrect to keep a golfish in a fishbowl and rarely change its water. You need to know something about the type of dog or cat you are buying such as amount of exercise and nutritional requirements and the type of food it can eat, does it shed? Are you alegic to it? Rodents need proper caging, food(very specific diets depending on the animal), what kind of substrate can you use? Birds need special cage and cages too. What kind of temperatures can any of your animals tolerate? Also, the point I find most important, if you even care about the animal, if you want it to be well/happy, YOU SHOULD LOOK INTO WHAT IT NEEDS TO LIVE, or else you will have an unhealthy, sad, suffering, ect... animal.

I understand if an animals is just droped at your door for whatever reason(previous owner is dumb, didnt care about it, didnt know how to care for it, animal/s was agressive, but as stated by Tony(BOAS N PYTHONS), you should have at least 1hr to research what you need to know on the animal, be it you go to a bookstore(Chapters?)(I do find great information about animals in books they sell), the internet(if you are posting on this site, it MUST be available to you), talking to people, find a book at a pet store, a magazine.

I truly belive if the person does really care about the animals they have, they should do some research on its care requirements.

My post was not intended as an attack on anyone or their statements, simply my knowledge/understanding on the topic.

I do congratulate the starter of the thread for at least having the sense to ask about the animal. At least from what they are told by the followup posts they will not do this again with another animal(hopefully).

I also believe that part of the problem is the sellers fault, as they are not assuring the animal/s are going to good homes, or that the person knows what they are doing.

Thank-you for your time in reading my posts, and again I did not mean to offend/attack anyone. Please, if you feel like, take my post apart and show me my mistakes, I will argue them with the facts and knowledge I posses.

Just my 2 cents.

C.

Edit: Just noticed the two above posts came up at the same time as mine, and I must agree with everything Tim said.

C.

[MouseKilla]

Tim,

Fair enough man, you did prove my blanket statement to be flawed and I'll give you that. I am satisfied with your acknowledgement of the fact that being a good keeper means you are always learning.

I think most people bring their first animal home fairly confident that they can care for it properly. They've bought all that expensive new gear and asked all the questions they could think of but quite often they still don't know everything they need to.

At this point they will either be smart enough to figure out they need to know more (which is about when they show up here) or they won't. If not, who knows what will become of that unfortunate animal? But if they ARE smart enough to figure out that they need some help (maybe a lot, maybe just a little), even though they might feel kinda stupid, what good does it do them or their new animal to have someone basically call them an idiot?

I just think it's better to help these people, even if they are idiots, if only for the sake of the animal in question.

[Heather123]

Even though I was given the boa I have in rather quick, hasty manner, its been stated here and I agree - you can still do the research to make sure you are caring for the animal properly. It upsets me (as it obviously does others) to see the improper care of any animal but are we really serving the interest of the animal (and the owner who wants to take care of the animal) by sniping comments at someone for their lack of research? I agree that I hold them responsible for their lack of planning and I would encourage them to either 1) do the research today, this very minute and ask the necessary questions to take care of the animal or 2) give the animal to someone who can care for it. Luckily, it seems, most of yall have done your research and have healthy, happy animals. I can honestly say that I did enough prior to picking the boa up to have the right set up and food ready but its ongoing process and I've learned soooo much since. My original post on this thread was simply to encourage understanding. I don't believe that particular people want to understand that I've read their posts and see the points they are making and that I think we are all coming to same conclusion - and that is you have to know how to take care of your boa (or whichever animal you might be discussing) properly.