How many is too many?

[geckomom]

Currently have a 55 gal tank, 4'L x 1'W (4 sq ft floor space).

Was wondering how many adult geckos I could house in that size enclosure, with the best outlook for safety, health, stress level, etc.

I currently have 1 M, 6 F, most of them adult size. They seem to get along well, feed/hunt equally well, no bullying, etc. They're all vet checked and healthy. I have 6 hides (1 large humid, 5 regular rock and/or half-log type, plus a hollow log with holes in it). The back of the enclosure has a variety of climbing vines (moss covered, textured, etc., w/silk viny stuff for the gex to hide behind when climbing.

I use repticarpet , the enclosure is regularly well-cleaned, and I feed them quite well. No shedding problems or any other stresses I'm aware of.

If anyone thinks they're already crowded, please be honest and let me know. BTW, I also plan on putting some ledge-type hideouts on on the back of the enclosure or in the corners.

What I'm after is just one more female - I'd dearly love an albino...but not enough to destroy the health/safety of the animals.

Any suggestions?:confused: Thanks so much, I know I can always get great answers and info here!

[sketchy4]

if it were my tank id put 4 in there but im sure you could work another one or so in there.

[Rebecca]

I'd say what you have in there might be pushing it. There should be around 10g per gecko. I don't think that one more is a good idea. I'd say you should add another humid hide just to avoid a possible fight. But that is just my opion other will have a different one. I just noticed the "most are adult size" do you mean that some are just juvies?? When you house geckos together (same species) they should all be the same size or there about. With the one male in there you might also find him stressing the girls out by trying to breed all the time.

[Kevin McRae]

In 2 books I read by the Barletts, it said "1 male and up to 3 females in a ten gallon is fine"so in a 55g you should be fine.Then I read in a REPTILES magazine they said you should use a 10g for one gecko and add 3" to each dimension of the cage per extra gecko.

Hope This Helps!

[Oliverian]

Even with 6 girls in there? They'll still get stressed by him?

-TammyR

[Kevin McRae]

My opinion,
And since you have so many females they won't get stressed from the male becasue the male is not just trying to breed with one gecko its taking turns with tall of them, giving them time to rest.

[Rebecca]

4 geckos per 10g?? Thats not right at all. Where did you read that?? Anyway I never really thought of the whole spreading the love thing ;)

[sketchy4]

yeah, i think if you stuck 4 geckos in a ten gallon you wouldnt even be able to put anything else in there with them.

[Kevin McRae]

I read this in the books "Lizards A to Z" and the book"Geckos" both written by the Barletts.

[bear24]

I would say 4 geckos per 20g. But since they have some vertical height that adds to living surface. I would not put another one in. To use alot of visual barriers is the other option and another hide. I figure each animal should be able to hide by itself if all the herps in the cage are hiding. Have you tried just using PVC pipe lengths 6" length glued together(non-toxic) stacked however you want. Very easy hide to make.

[thegeckoteam]

Four in a ten gallon.....That can't be right. You must have misread that. I was thinking of trying four in a 20 gallon with a LOT of hides, and thought that was pushing it. But, I keep reading on Ron Trempers site how he puts 6 in a plastic cage size 16 " X 22" X 6". I'm still trying to figure that one out. I want to redo my housing for next year for the least amount of space possible but that just doesn't sound right either. :(

[sketchy4]

i plan on getting one more female and maybe getting rid of my tokay for another female from Kelli at HISS.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I read this in the books "Lizards A to Z" and the book"Geckos" both written by the Barletts.

To be quite frank, the Bartlett series is about as crap as you can get with the heavily marketed herps books. Usually written by some odd job person who knows crap about the species and animals they claim to know. Most of the time, the referances are from what used to be known back years ago when herp collecting was relatively knew. The information given is simply bad and not correct by any means. I know of one written on Iguanas...lol...what a laugh it be.

I do not go by what is written most times in a Reptiles Mag either. But, there can be some nice articles written in them, over all just crap IMO as well. Mainly, I see it as a marketing tool for reptile product manufacturers and breeders.

I personally would not know where to go for Leopard Gecko info off hand, as that is not my arena, but I would most likely talk to someone well versed and knowledgable in the field of their current captive care and standing. Bartletts and the like do a good job filling up space and collecting dust in crappy pet shops, thats about it.

[Bartman]

I would say your fine. Just add a lot more hides along with a minimum of 2 or even 3 humid hides.

I have a bartlett book and no where do they say 4 to each 10g...they actually say what most do and its 1 per 10g. I dont know where you got that information from.


I think in a 55g 7 is the max but good amount you can fit into their imo. As long as you can monitor, which i dont know how you can, that they eat then its fine.

[Kevin McRae]

I don't really appreciate being told I am wrong when it says so in the book, I'm not saying I agree with the book, I'm just saying I think you can trust a book more then just anyone on the internet, to tell the truth I keep my 2 females singly, the adult in a 15g and the young adult female ina 10g.

LIZARD CARE, from A to Z by R.D Bartlett and Partricia Bartlett
"A terrarium made from a ten-gallon(38 L)tank will house one male and three females without overcrowding.

[Matt.B]

Which is total bull****. There is no way that a group of four adult leos would fit comfortably in a ten gallon I find that a ten gallon is MINIMUM for a SINGLE leo let alone four.
Matt

[sketchy4]

a ten gallon may be suitable for 4 HATCHLINGS but theres no way 4 adults could fit in there with enough hides, water dish, and food dish. its just not possible. the poor things would literally be on top of eachother.

[karmeleon]

I agree thats too many lizards for a 10g. However I think u could squeeze one more gecko in your big tank just keep an eye on them.

[thunder]

i disagree. i think that seven adults is already too many for a 55 gallon. even six would be pushing it.

[geckofreakerz]

kevin mcrae not to sound rude to you but this is probably going to be. Which i could care less.:w


point is if you dont want to listen to what we say which some are experts some not then this isnt a forum you belong in. If your just going to disagree or argue then again this isnt the forum for you thanks bye. By all the responses from your post... maybe you should listen.::w :w

[PDDM]

Originally posted by Kevin McRae
I don't really appreciate being told I am wrong when it says so in the book, I'm not saying I agree with the book, I'm just saying I think you can trust a book more then just anyone on the internet, to tell the truth I keep my 2 females singly, the adult in a 15g and the young adult female ina 10g.

LIZARD CARE, from A to Z by R.D Bartlett and Partricia Bartlett
"A terrarium made from a ten-gallon(38 L)tank will house one male and three females without overcrowding.

Kevin what everyones trying to tell you is that "A terrarium made from a ten-gallon(38 L)tank will house one male and three females without overcrowding" is complete bs,i mean take this and compare it to all the caresheets for leos on the internet heres examples of what they say:
10 Gallons Per Leo
30 Gallon Can Hold 3 Females And A male
15 gallon can hold a couple(i dunno if i agree with that one though)

Kevin You cant Believe everything Writtin in A Book,Or at least look At Other opinions,And if you DIDNT agree with this(you said I'm not saying I agree with the book) then why would you give this info out???And How can you say A book Is more reliable then the internet???The internet Is like a HUGE book with everything in it,Usualy When You read a Good caresheet It Is Like 2-3 books combined,And if this persons talking abot all reptiles between A-Z how would he have time to know and study a leo???Heres advice:Buy/Read books BASED on leos,big reptile books usualy get it wrong i had a national geographic book on Reptile and amphibians,and they had almost everything wrong about lizards,They said "All" Geckos Are aboreal And etc...If you want a good source for the reptile your keeping buy a book on them and only them not on all the other reptiles.

[drewlowe]

I'm going to say my opion and leave it at that.

A 10 gal. is way to small for 4 adult leos, the rule is 1 leo per square foot. So if your 55 gal. has 4 square feet of floor space then you should only house 4 geckos in there. You can not use hight when working with leos seeing as they don't really climb that much (yes i know they can climb).

I think 7 geckos in a 55 gal is 3 too many. I currently have 1 75 gal with 5 females and my male is housed all by himself in a 20 gal.

As far as the comment on your male annoying your females i wouldn't even worry about, he'll have enough "love" to go around. Just watch the weight of the girls during breeding season to make sure they are eating enough.

Jamie

[Kevin McRae]

no comment................

[PDDM]

Oh sry Kev,i didnt realise i sounded so rude sry im kinda thick sometimes and i dont realise how i sound,the thing is you gotta ask for opinions,i was just reading The famous "Leopard gecko Manuel(purple book)" and maybe i read wrong but the book says you should use calci-sand,and talks about t-rexs calci-sand,maybe im reading it wrong though,but then after it says that if you use sand it should be minimal sieze(grains) and calci-sand has bigger grains then reg. sand,so i dunno if hes promoting it or de-promoting it,but of course for now most of us know calcium sand isnt good because leos eat it more and get impacted...Now im not dissin the book,maybe im not reading it right,meh wtv. Point is that you need opinions,i mean everyone on hear helps people based on thier own expiriences so you cant say the book is more belivable then people im just look at all the good breeders around hear :D
And Thats The end Of my Rambling

[lifeline]

ok guys from my experience 10 gal is too small for more than one adult leo. even one adult leo will not comfortable in a 10gal with water and food and hides....


we should also thank more people like kevin guys instead of jumping down his throat about him trying to help us. He may not know leo's like we do. But all he did was try and help and he is very nice guy. How many people go out of there way to actually find info in a book and actually post it to help you? He did not pull that info out of his own head.


A 55 gal tank, 4'L x 1'W (4 sq ft floor space). this encloser is fine geckomom all I would do is remove the male for overbreeding stress reasons. I am sure after that your females will be very happy. Only introduce male when you want to breed him to females. It really depends on the setup of a larger tank on how many leo's it holds I made my 90gal 2 lvls holds 12 female leo's. We have had no ill effects from this, just large amounts of babies.
we just introduce our male to our females when we want to breed them.


hope this helps geckomom
thanks mike and cheryl
leopardgecko.ca

[PDDM]

ya,kevin was trying to help,kevin im gonna go on a limb here and asume nobody meant to attack you at all,the only problem i had is when you said books are more reliable then all of us on the internet :( but no probs other wise :D

[Kevin McRae]

Originally posted by lifeline

we should also thank more people like kevin guys instead of jumping down his throat about him trying to help us. He may not know leo's like we do. But all he did was try and help and he is very nice guy. How many people go out of there way to actually find info in a book and actually post it to help you? He did not pull that info out of his own head.

I actually have had leos for a couple years and understand them quite well, I have two females and probaly going to purchase a adult male patternless soon.

Its no problem i'm used to it.............but I still agree on when i said books are more reliable then the internet.

Internet:
The info is usally very good but it doesn't cost any money to wright someting on the web, and it could be a no body.

Book:
It cost money to publish a book and why would someone waste there time making a book for no reason?You can see who the authour is, and if you trust the other, you can believe his information.

My two cents, I may not know all the points.

[drewlowe]

Books can be wrong and outdated also ( read C.m.pyrrhus post he made a great one) ... Just as PDDM mentioned the calci sand thing I have the book he's talking about and i FULLY disagree with the use of calci sand or sand for that matter. I have old books that say it's ok to use heat rocks and as most of know already they only make great door stops or paperweights. LOL So just because it's wrote down in a book i should belive it, i don't think so. The best way to learn is to gather info from several sources wether it be from a book, breeders, care sheets, forums, or experince.

The part you read about 4 leos in one 10 gal is VERY wrong. I don't care what book or if a person said it, it's still wrong, no matter what way you look at it.

I've skimmed though the pages of the book that your talking about Kevin McRae. I had a few little chuckles and put it right back down and spent my money on a book that was worth the info, money, and time.

Jamie

[Leviathan]

Well if everyone is shooting off opinions. Personally i don't find leopard geckos to do that great in groups period! Especially with males. I kept 4 females together in a cage 36" long by 24" deep by 18" tall. Once they had bred they didn't eat very well if at all. They didn't lie near each other at all and seemed to be just plain miserable. I didn't even keep the male in with them. Leopards will breed to females as soon as he knows they're old enough to lay eggs. That can be very dangerous to a young female. I do find however they do great in small single spaces. I keep mine in the little drawer rubbermaids. They work to about 8 gall. They do AWESOME! My females are HUGE! My one girl is over 10 inches! Anyways I could go on and on but I'm sure someone will disagree with me too but ya know what... It's just my experience. Being that we are talking about animals, no one is going to have all the same advice and all the same experience. Like people animals are different.
As for your set-up... I would take the male out for sure! Put him in his own enclosre and introduce the females individually when they are at least a year old and have nice big fat bellies and tails. As for the 55 g. with the females. I would keep 4 in there my self but five may be all right. Monitor them daily make sure you watch them when you feed and they all get a proper amount of food. If any of them seem to withdraw during feeding time get them there own enclosure or you may run into problems later. That's all

Alecia

[geckomom]

First, I want to apologize for causing controversy, then not being able to check in on the board for awhile :o

Second, after re-reading my OP, I realized I goofed - I've got 6 geckos in total, not 1 M and 5 F's :o :o

Third, I'm going to stick with what I have and not add any more! I did add 2 new hides (1 dry hide and 1 humid), so they'd have more choices and more chance for solitary time; but my gex seem not to mind sharing hides w/each other...at least I hope that's the case, since with 5 dry hides and 2 humid hides, they usually "rotate" between a dry hide and a humid hide in groups (hope they don't share because there aren't enough hides).

You'd think I would have learned from my "close to overstocked" acquarium days....not to keep anything at overloaded or close to overloaded populations...:(

When I said "most of them close to adult size" I also goofed - they're all between 50-54 grams in weight, so there's very little size difference (thanks for the warning, tho :) ).

Next time I ask a question, I'll make sure I post the correct facts! My geckos all seem healthy, tho - eating, shedding, no fighting, the F's don't seem to be getting too much male attention, they seem calm (both with me - tho I don't over-handle them - and with each other).

Sooooo...I'll be happy with the geckos I already have (anyway, I realized I really don't have room for a quarantine enclosure - so I won't even think about adding anyone new!), as long as they seem happy with things the way they are :D .

I want to let everyone who posted know I value all of the opinions offered, and appreciate the time and effort you all took to answer my question - sorry it took me so long to get back!

[geckomom]

Originally posted by Leviathan
Well if everyone is shooting off opinions. Personally i don't find leopard geckos to do that great in groups period! Especially with males.

Alecia, I'd never keep more than one male in the same enclosure, but I really appreciate the reminder! :)

Originally posted by Leviathan
Leopards will breed to females as soon as he knows they're old enough to lay eggs. That can be very dangerous to a young female.

You're right (and again, thanks for the reminder!). Mine are all old enough and have enough weight to breed, tho, altho I know constant breeding isn't necessarily the best thing...I'm trying to find some more space to set my male up w/a "bachelor pad".


Originally posted by Leviathan
My females are HUGE! My one girl is over 10 inches!

Fantastic! Obviously, you take excellent care of your geckos, and they're responding :).

Originally posted by Leviathan
Being that we are talking about animals, no one is going to have all the same advice and all the same experience. Like people animals are different.

I'd definitely agree with you - that's one of the things that makes keeping any kind of animal, bird or fish both a challenge and a pleasure.

Originally posted by Leviathan
Monitor them daily make sure you watch them when you feed and they all get a proper amount of food. If any of them seem to withdraw during feeding time get them there own enclosure or you may run into problems later.

Yep, that's what I'm doing, but once again - very good advice:) !

Thanks again! Now - gotta go clean and feed the geckos!:D