leopard, the next anole ??

[wyz]

I'm getting pretty pissed off this year..

I'm seeing more and more people selling leopard geckos for 20$.

Am I the only one to freak out on this ?

Yes they are easy to breed and with all the info available on the net pretty much anybody can breed them. But.... no living animal is worth 20$...

In 1, 2 or 3 years, they'll be 5$ and we'll be able to get them in petstores for 10$ and they'll also include a plastic turtle pond to go with it.

Everybody will get them and they'll be the next disposable reptile on the market.

This lizard is one the greatest specie there is.. they have a good size, the don't stick on glass, they don't bite, they have cute personalities, they look great.. etc etc. ...

The only bad side for the leopard gecko is that they are tough animal that can endure bad condition for a long time.. this means that they'll suffer longer from cheap keepers neglect.. Who care.. it's only 20$.

Sorry to vent in here but it makes me feel better.

WYZ

[thegeckoteam]

Hi-

I'm a small breeder of leopard geckos and I have to agree with you. Mine on my site are listed for $25, and those are for nice tangerines. I felt I had to lower my prices because of the competition and because I'm a new breeder. Even though my animals are healthy and taken care of, I felt because I'm unknown I needed to sell at as lower price this year to build up my reputation. I'm certainly losing money this year, but I'm hoping to raise the prices somewhat next year and have more babies to sell. And, as a breeder I think it's hard to know what to charge sometimes. And that is the fault of those $20.00 geckos out there. But what else are we suppose to do?

[wyz]

I'm not here to tell anyody what to do...

But If you wanna get rid on babies, the best way is to sell them to petsores that sell them the most expensive.

I don't mind selling babies 25$ to petstore that sell them 100$.. at least it's not getting the market down. Sure the petstore will make a huge profit, but at least these lizard will still keep a certain value and not be sold to cheap owners.

I have petstores near my house that buy geckos for 20$ and sell at 39.99$..Theses guys will NEVER get my babies...
I rather sell to petstores that sell them for what they're really worth.

You're from PA, I don't know how is the leo market in your area, I was mostly talking about the market here in Quebec and Ontario.

But instead of getting your prices down, put them up and keep them high... that's how you'll build your reputation.
Otherwise, give your females a rest and don't breed them I don't think selling them cheap will help you in the long run, people will expect you to have low prices for the rest of your life..

WYZ

[Samba]

WYZ - I understand your frustration, but I have a few comments to add...

I first heard of leopard geckos when I was about 16 (I'm 24 now), and I wanted one desparately for years. I could never afford them because even the 'normals' were over $100.00 back then. The good thing that came of my wait for the prices to drop was the knowledge I gained by researching them. By the time I got my first pair I was ready for them.

The prices have dropped, obviously out of competition and availability, as mentioned above, making them an easy purchase for inexperienced keepers, and that concerns not only you, but many of us. I'm not sure what could help a situation such as this other than having the sellers evaluate the clients purchasing animals, and being able to say 'no' if they feel the animal won't be recieving the best of care.

Good Luck!

[sketchy4]

i just hope they dont become so cheap people start using them for feeders.

[Siretsap]

I agree with Wyz...

This year, we are not selling any of our babies, at 25, 30 or even 20$, it's not worth selling them. So we will keep them (most will be females anyhow) and will only breed them in 2 to 3 years, this will give a rest to the geckos an allow us to see how much they will be worth then.

Using them as feeders is just the same as using anoles as feeders... I wouln't use neither as feeders, but some will because they do not have the choice.

A person who will use reptiles as feeders, will not neglect that lizard cause it's what he will be using to feed others. But someone who will buy a gecko for 20$, may neglect it, if it think's it's not a valuable reptile...

A leopard gecko should never be sold for a cheap price, in my opinion, any reptile that is very docile, calm and easy to keep should be a valuable pet and sold at a higher price than those that aren't easy to keep and not docile.

[Dozer]

sketchy, you say that you hope they dont use them as feeders, if they get cheap, why not? they aint better then any other reptile, we use mice to feed our snakes, fish, guninea pigs, rabbits, etc. etc. Look at it this way, corns, house geckos, anoles, just to name a few are allready being used as feeders, if a leopard gecko gets down to 5 bucks a pop and that is a food source for a very picky eater, there is no other choice

[sketchy4]

i like Leos too much to see em get used as feeders :(

[little_dragon_]

I don't understand how someone can afford to sell a leopard gecko for that cheap with all the love and care you put into them that's ridiculas. No one is buying a leo from me under 40 even for a normal. Mine are of the highest quality of care and health like most peoples geckos in this forum.. If you think of the electricity bills, the food, vitamins, heats sources, caging, supplies, and incubators at 20 dollars you're not going to make a profit. A tangerine leo at 25 you're not doing anyone a favor or even yourself. By under cutting yourself you are undercutting the market and that's when the leo craze will flop. The leo will be the next anole and the crested gecko will become the new craze.

[thegeckoteam]

I understand what everyone is saying but with that thinking I might as well just give up now and not sell any, ever. No one is going to buy from a completely unknown breeder for the same price they can get a gecko from a widely known breeder. I wouldn't. Why would I think anyone else would. I'm a 38 year old mother to 6 children. I'm a Christian, I'm honest. My animals are all very well cared for and yes worth much more than what I currently have them priced for. However.....NO ONE knows this about me. NO ONE is going to trust me, because I don't have any reputation good or bad. I have made my first few sales this year at $25.00/gecko but neither of those people are people who frequent these boards (at least I don't think they do) so I'm not likely to get any good or bad feedback from either. From my research, it's a tough market out there. I still feel that if I posted my babies for $40 or more that I would get no sales whatsoever. At that point I would be losing even more money because now I have to house the babies and raise them. I also have an option of selling some of my babies to a very good local reptile store, but they are only offering me $12/baby. I haven't looked around anywhere else because this is the only 'pet store' I've seen that actually takes care of their reptiles and I'm NOT going to sell my babies to some place I know won't take care of them. Of course, I know, on-line I don't know where they are going either, but I'm sure it's a better place than to some of my local pet stores.

So, we're back to not breeding and not selling at all. I love breeding leopard geckos. I LOVE my geckos. I love seeing them hatch out, I love seeing how the babies act, I love seeing them eat that first cricket. I really love what I do. I also know that once I'm established as a good, honest breeder with exceptional animals I WILL be able to raise my prices and people WILL pay. I would pay more for the same animal to get one from a breeder I knew as opposed to someone I didn't. Wouldn't you?

Just my 2 cents. I don't want to see the leo's go the way of the anole either, or just be used for just cheap feeders. But, I feel this is the best thing for me to do at this point with my business. I hope you can try and understand where I'm coming from as I'm trying to understand your point of view also.

[karmeleon]

I personally sell my young leos for $20 each. Lets face it leos are common and people have to sell for what they can. I would like to get more for them but enjoy breeding them and raising the young and am not doing it to make money. You will notice many people starting at a higher price but being forced to keep lowering their price because they just can't sell them. This does not mean I am going to sell to anyone. I will not sell to someone who does not know the care or equipment needed or be willing to provide these. It is preferable that a beginner does get a leo. They are a much better choice then the anole u mentioned. For that matter perhaps they will be able to compete with the wild caught stuff that does not adapt well to captivity, which is a good thing. Certainly I would not like them to become a fad pet like sliders were. I do not think there is enough money selling them at this price anyway to support it. People get mad when they see animals being sold for less then they are but it is simply supply and demand. This is the same as any market.

[mathaldo]

What if everyone set a minimum price for leos, for example $50. (this is for hatchling normals). Now $50 is the lowest you can offer them at, and people have no other choice, so if they really like them that much they won't mind spending an extra $30. I know it would affect competition, but it's just 1 idea.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Don't forget thegeckoteam, you are in the United States where $25 is worth about $40 CANADIAN. I would say you are within the price range up here.

When you see threads that have the subject "my gecko layed eggs what do I do?". Or, "my crested layed eggs, what do I do?". Or, "my bearded layed........yeah, you get the point. And what is that point? Its that just by putting these animals within 10 inches of each other results in many many many many eggs within a season. Even by a 6 year old. And if that's the case, then you will never see the price rise back to $100. If they are breeding by accident CONSISTANTLY (ala like rabbits) the price can never rise.

Its a sad fact, because I'm of the opinion that no living animal should ever be sold for less than $100. Helps weed out SOME of the riff-raff.

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by mathaldo
What if everyone set a minimum price for leos, for example $50. (this is for hatchling normals). Now $50 is the lowest you can offer them at, and people have no other choice,

Skirting legal issues there. I believe it's called price fixing or something like that.

If people like the quality, appearance and the species, they'll pay the asking price. Sure, the breeder's reputation has a lot to do with the price they'll pay, but in the end, the buyer has to decide if the price is justified, all things considered.

If hobbyists keep breeding just any pair of leos regardless of quality, appearance and relationship (siblings, other blood relattives), you can expect a lot of low quality leos being sold for next to nothing. Some people don't know any better and let their pairs breed. Some do it for the BIG $$ $igns they see (get rich quick). Some do it for love of the species... .there's hundreds of reasons for letting them breed. Sooner or later there will be a glut of leos and the price will be dirt cheap. It's going to happen. A few years ago a lot of big name US breeders were selling off their colonies or thinning them out because there was just no market for all the offspring, they weren't even breaking even with the price they could get.

Anyone with a male and female can be a breeder. The guy down the street without a good reputation yet will sell cheap. The big name breeders can afford to sell high. But in the end, all leos will become cheap(er) than they are now, some dirt cheap even. It's inevitable the way this hobby is going.

[Kevin McRae]

Well if everyone sold there leos at 50$ the pet store wouldn't get as much business.If every business sold there leos in a city that had 30 pet stores but one sold them for 25$, that store would get more money and business.

People may disagree with this but when I sell my reptiles,I would sell them for less money then pet stores and becasue I am not in it for the money, I wouldn't sell them to someone who said "I'm going to feed it
tropical fish flakes".I would only sell to someone who actually can take care of an reptile.

[mathaldo]

Skirting legal issues there. I believe it's called price fixing or something like that.

Ya I thought it was illegal, but I forgot what it was called.

Anyways I think that people just want to spend the least amount of money they can for a pet. My friend recently decided to get a lizard. They had leopard geckos for $30, anoles for $8, and some other spotted lizard for $11. I told him he should get a leopard gecko, but he wanted to spend the least amount of money and get 2 anoles. I'm not saying anoles aren't good pets, just that in my opinion leopard geckos are better. By spending less money on the lizard, he thinks he's saving money in the long run.

*Also*

People may disagree with this but when I sell my reptiles,I would sell them for less money then pet stores and becasue I am not in it for the money,

When you say less then the pet store, how much do you mean? Some pet stores sell them for $50, others for $30.

By selling yours for a really low price, a lot of breeders will have to reach your price or go lower. For people trying to make a couple bucks, this would also affect them because they would almost be losing money.

[Kevin McRae]

Well, me for example,I don't have many leos so it wouldn't affect the breeders.

And now that everyone is breeding leos,
they are not going to got more exspensive, they are going to get cheaper.

[little_dragon_]

How much should a high yellow jungle go for?

[little_dragon_]

How much should a high yellow jungle het albino go for?

[Geofft]

5 bucks...... j/k.... I personally have never seen a leo in the 2 pet stores i got to, for under 60 dollars. Anoles go for 12, and viper geckos for for 90!. On sale the leos go down to 40... but hell, thats where i bought my leo 2 years ago!,

anyway,

Interesting topic,
Geoff

[PDDM]

Ok Im Just Gonna reply To the first Post,So I havent read the rest of the posts yet so bare with me if i mention someone said,now maybe people like wyz and other montrealers know is that here leos sell for quite a bit here...trempers are 130$ patties 119$ and ect normals 75-85$(cheapest ive seen were sickly skinny ones that are 50$) im not so sure leos will go down to 20$ anytime soon but yeah maybe in three years...the funny thing is after like wyza saixd they become disposable then a few years later they'll be shortage of leos,theyll go way up again...and probably repeat the cycle over again,Then again,most pet stores dont tell ppl how to care for thier animals,there just in for money,so you cant totaly blame the poor un-knowing famalies that get geckos not knowing how to care....also for the kids who actualy go on the internet and want one,the parents usualy talk to the owners,one night my mom came home with 'Recomemnded Calci sand" so i wanted to take it back and buy my leo mealies and etc,so the guy offers me crickets i say no thx,cause im shy,and then i say i have sand(i feed mealies in bowl since i have sand) and he tells me my leo could digest the sand,i mean i got this guy who works at the pet store,(when i probably know more about leos then him)telling me leos can digest all sand. And my mom is actualy siding withhim(im 14) forcin me to get crickets,but eventualy i won got my mealies and a cave. so its not only the kids that carelessly buy the leos its the pet stores that do lets say "False" advertising.