Salt marsh female

[crimsonking]

This is one of my gravid mangrove salt marsh snakes. She bred with one of my red males and I always get a big variety of looks in the offspring. All my red females are in shed at the moment, so here's a "normal" phase. Another of my "Locals".
:Mark

[Simon]

Nice~!

Can't wait to see the red phase male~!

[MouseKilla]

MORE cool stuff from Florida!

If it weren't for the fact that we send our old people there to die I might be inclined to move. lol! Of course a Stanley Cup proves you have at least SOME younger Canucks around.

Are these snakes also called Southern Water Snakes (Nerodia fasciata)? Just trying to find the description in my Audubon field guide. They have a pic of one in there with red saddles or blotches that they're calling a Banded Water Snake... am I even close here?

[crimsonking]

Not too close yet not too far away either! This is Nerodia clarkii compressicauda.They were once grouped with the common FL banded water snake, N. fasciata pictiventris and will intergrade with them as well as others that overlap their range. Roughly from Tampa Bay south and around the peninsula and up to an imaginary east/west line across the state from Tampa Bay to say, Vero Beach. There's a fair amount of variety. Some have really cool looking bellies as well. You know I'll post pics of the babies like last year.

So when do we reserve your condo in "Del Boca Vista"? lol!
FL. has been called God's waiting room and would probably be fine if the developers would not keep trying to do everything "like they do it up north".

The CUP needed a tan anyway.
:Mark

[MouseKilla]

Yeah, I should have looked at the book more carefully, I was looking at a pic of N. faciata clarki that had the red in it. The common name used for this one is Banded water snake but they also give Gulf Salt Marsh water snake.

There is a seperate description for N.f. compressicauda and a different corresponding pic. This snake has no red in it and looks a lot more like the one in the pic that you've posted. They call this one Broad Banded water snake and Mangrove water snake.

Is the one you posted an N.f. clarki/compresicauda intergrade? Is that what you meant?

I love this book but I'm unconvinced that I could ever use it, on it's own, to positively identify an animal in the wild. Maybe I just need to learn to use it better?

[crimsonking]

It does sound as if it could be confusing since there are broad banded water snakes (although not here), Gulf salt marsh snakes (north of here)as well as banded watersnakes (throughout FL)and mangrove salt marsh snakes (lower 1/2 of state along coasts)and all are different. hmmm.
Both books, "A Field Guide to Snakes of Florida" (Tenant) and "Florida's Snakes" (Bartlett) are good ones for our snakes. In fact ,**** Bartlett came by to photograph a red phase and the normal one above is the only one we found that afternoon.
As for this one being an intergrade, well it could be but this is pretty much their "normal" ( I find an equal # of red ones) coloration. Some of the more brightly colored red ones are nice. I posted a killer red one earlier this year, and with the morning light hitting him just right he looked really cool. The pic was lousy because I was in a hurry, but he was the nicest msm snake I've seen. I'll post him below again.
:Mark

[crimsonking]

female red phasehttp://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/151rmf2b.JPG
male red phase
http://photos.herphost.com/albums/userpics/red4.JPG
:Mark

[vanderkm]

Those reds are outstanding - can hardly wait to see the baby pics!

mary v.

[MouseKilla]

Well I'm becoming progressively more confused. lol! Oh well, I'm unlikely to run into any of the snakes we're talking about anyway so I guess it doesn't matter if I can't sort them out. The only way to learn that stuff is to go out and pick enough of them up yourself I guess.

I do know one thing though, those reds are awesome! A real contrast to the drab colours I associate with water snakes. They all look like they have a bit of attitude, is that the case?

[crimsonking]

Absolutely not! These are some of he most docile snakes (for nerodia) there is. I often feed them as I'm holding them for the first time! Many times I'm fishing and have live minnows for bait. The minnows are what the mangroves feed on most. They are calm enough most times to accept a minnow while in your hands. I have to admit though, other snakes like waters and garters will also, since they depend so much on their sense of smell.
Anyway, I'd say 1 in 10 will bite or musk unless they are surprised or handled roughly.

:Mark

[MouseKilla]

Really?

I was mainly guessing that based on their posture in your pics. It reminds me of a Pine or other pit. I don't think you'd be hand feeding many of them though! lol.