Okay....

[Kevin McRae]

i want to breed Colombian Boas but am not sure how good they would sell, I live outside of Winnipeg and there not allowed in winnipeg any ways how hard would they be to sell if I soled them for 50$ each and am willing to ship at the buyers expense?

[BoidKeeper]

If you sell at $50 a piece you might as well contact some whole salers and try to get that price on whole litters, though $25 a piece is more likely. Also don't forget there is a market out there and these things have a market value. If you go that low you're going to piss off the compatition to no end. And have you thought about the responsibility aspect of producing animals. A Colombian is a big snake and not every yahoo should have one. At $50 they may pass up on a smaller more suitable snake just so they can save a few bucks. The snake might be cheap but the right cage and food is not and when they realise this they may just dump the snake. By keeping Boa Constrictors and other large snakes at a higher price it helps to make sure the buyer is seriouse. At $50 a piece you may get a lot of impulse buyers.
Just some points to consider,
Trevor

[Linds]

I agree with Trevor completely. Selling at such a low price may be doing a disservice to both snakes and other breeders. Personally, these snakes going at twice that price are still too cheap and often end up neglected or tossed away as a result. If you do decide to go ahread with it however, you should be able to wholesale them off easily enough with the right price :cool:

[Kevin McRae]

Well the thing is I only breed the animals for fun not profit and when I sell an animal I make sure it goes to a very good home, some one who will provide them with excellent care!

[msubigdawg]

I think 50 bucks is awsome. I dont think you shoudl be worried about keeping prices hight to make better people buy them. That seems like something some high priced breeder would say. I think snakes are only worth as much as you are willing to pay and that a price should not just be jacked up because thats what big breeders do. Sorry if this may offend folks but hey thats my thoughts.

[BoidKeeper]

He's in Canada, it's not the same $50.

[msubigdawg]

How big is the difference?

[Tim_Cranwill]

About $75...

Kevin, if you are just breeding for fun, I would recommend breeding an animal that is less, what's the word... large?

Are you really willing to NOT sell to a person that you think is unable to care for the animal properly? I know you are just thinking ahead and kind of day dreaming but it's a BIG animal that not everyone is willing to care for its whole life. And it's not one that is hard to come by... there may be too many Colombian Boa breeders in Manitoba already….

Start out with your corns and balls and see how it goes from there. Then you'll see what kind of market there is and get an idea of how many and what type of animals you are able to sell.

Anyway, do as much reading as you can and just have fun. Don’t get too far ahead of yourself.... :)

[Kevin McRae]

I understand completly but i don't see a problem with sell reptiles cheap, and I wouldn't want some one coming to me and not knowing how to care for the animal.

I got 6 pairs of herps, so I guess I will see what i think of breeding when it happens!

[geckoguy157]

personaly i think kevin should sell the animals for what he would like. He says he makes sure they go to a good home if he is doing this there is nothing wrong with selling them at a low price the only thing i would'nt agree with the low price thing is if you are at a reptile show and doing that. that wouldnt be fair. and he wants to get into it for his own enjoyment not makeing money.

[msubigdawg]

I guess its because I dont breed, but why isnt it fair. It isnt someones fault they want to sell them for less. I love snakes to death but I see some sometimes that I feel are over priced. I think a snake is worth what you put into getting it I guess but I dont think you should have to sell it for more because some big breeder will throw a pissy fit if you sell it for less then they do.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think snakes are only worth as much as you are willing to pay

What a p^ss-poor attitude. Snakes are LIVING things. They are NOT just worth what "someone is willing to pay".

That's garbage.

If someone was "willing to pay" $10 for your life, does that make YOU worth $10?

Maybe it does.......

[Jeff_Favelle]

And Kevin, you say that you just breed "for fun", right? Wouldn't this entail actually having bred something? Anything? Just curious.

[msubigdawg]

Dude I didnt mean thats how much their life is worth. I meant that you can charge 1 million dollars for a ball python but that doesnt mean someone will pay for it. So dont be an ******* about it.

EDIT: I have starred out the above word. Those words have been censored for a reason, putting a similar letter or star in place to make it show is still swearing. -Linds

[Jeff_Favelle]

No need to swear. Or, is someone not allowed to disagree or argue with you? Must be nice..........

[msubigdawg]

I am always up for a good disagreement. Sorry for the language just slightly angered. I respect most of the stuff I have seen you post. So its not against you sorry.

[Jeff_Favelle]

No worries man. This place is the best place to disagree, LOL!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think a snake is worth what you put into getting it I guess but I dont think you should have to sell it for more because some big breeder will throw a pissy fit if you sell it for less then they do.


This usually never happens. Know why? Because some guy/gal comes to the forums (every forum) at least once a month stating "I'm going to breed this, I'm going to breed that, and I'm going to sell it for cheap, and I'm not in it for the money bla bla bla". Like clockwork. And sure enough, within a couple of months, they fade away, never having bred a thing. That's why breeders of any substance are never worried about them. They are but a blip on the radar. The only market it ever affects is the low low end animals that are SUPER easy to breed. Not only easy, but less time and energy consuimg as well. These are the animals that they have success with. But they're already cheap and the competition is already fierce, so it is but an even SMALLER blip on the radar.

My advice? Work with the animals you LIKE the best. If by luck/chance they breed and you get babies, well trade those babies to get more snakes you like. Maybe by then you'll want a green tree python or a woma or something else that's a few thousand dollars. It sucks to spend an entire paycheck on an animal, so if you can flip snakie money back into your obsession, its all the better!! :D

Just remember, its all about the animals. Always.

:D

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Jeff said it!

C.

[adamofsound]

the best advice given to me since becoming a reptile hobbyist was to make sure I had the housing to keep, and the income to feed entire clutches in case they DONT sell.
I am a lizard keeper, but i think this applys to all keepers.
I breed for fun too, when I sell something it is a bonus, but be prepared to keep them all as pets if you have to.
my collection grows every season.
thanks for looking.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Exactly Adam. And being a keeper of lizards, YOU know this MORE than anybody!!! Lizards are EATING MACHINES!! Its all they do. Almost as inefficient as mammals, ha ha!!

Glad to see its not just me that thinks its ALL about the animals! Cheers guys! :D

[msubigdawg]

o trust me I care about the animals a great deal. I had a summer job at a local pet store that I quit because she was goin to order things like turtles and iguanas. I told her on average those animals arent takin care of and she said she doesnt care. She said it doesnt bother her if the person buys it and lets it go. I had to quit because I can't do that.

[Kevin McRae]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
And Kevin, you say that you just breed "for fun", right? Wouldn't this entail actually having bred something? Anything? Just curious.

I haven't bred anything yet but my tokays and leopards are breeding and should have eggs soon, I'm only 13 so if I'm having my tokays and leos breed thats pretty good!

BTW - The only reason I asked about the BCI's is because I have one already and there was one for sale for not a bad price.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well, there's nothing like an opinionated debate to bring the curses out.... :D lol

For the people who say "I will sell for less..." and "herps are over-priced" and "blah blah blah..." IF and WHEN they EVER get around to breeding something and investing the time, money and care into a project, I think their "outsider" attitude would change....

Just like the people who say "If I had 10 million dollars, I would share with all my friends and family and still keep my job at the library.... and yadda yadda…" that's what you THINK you'd do, but you never know until you're there... There’s nothing wrong with thinking about it or saying it. But just wait ‘til you’re there… ;) :D

In the end, it’s like Jeff says... It's ALL about the animals. PERIOD. :)

[Tim_Cranwill]

As for my first point about breeding common boas in Manitoba, like I told Kevin in an email earlier... for a province with 1 million people and 1/2 the population lives in Winnipeg... where boas are illegal, that doesn't make for much of a market. And it's tough to find people who want to pay shipping on a $75 animal.

And I know of at least two common boa breeders in Manitoba.

By the way, I have met Kevin several times and he is a really nice guy. He is young and enthusiastic about herps and he should be applauded for that. Keep up the passion and interest in herps and keep asking questions Kevin. :)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

TIM CRANWILL and JEFF FAVELLE:

I agree with you guys, first and always is the animals, if your thinking breed a reptile to sell babies after and you show very little knowledge of what your getting into, stick to selling lemonaid....lol.

My 2.5 cents.

Cya...

Tony

[Tim_Cranwill]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
My 2.5 cents.

LOL... Tony, you're one guy I know whose 2 cents IS actually worth 2.5 cents! lol :D

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha you guys!


Tony and Tim are right. Think about keeping and enjoying healthy animals first. If they breed and you get healthy babies as a result, then you are further ahead than most and should feel lucky! :D

[hhw]

Personally, if anything, I think a lot of herps are underpriced... in most businesses, you either sell enough above cost per product at a sufficient quantity to cover all your overhead and hopefully end up in a tidy profit, or go out of business. However, I get the feeling that a lot of breeders end up selling at below cost (when you put the cost of labour into the equation), because that's the highest price the market will bear, and stay in the business anyway just because they love the herps.

With that said, I am going to say I am going to breed this and that and sell it really cheap but actually do it... since I'll be breeding african house snakes, the rabbits of the snake world :P I'm not sure why they aren't more popular as beginner snakes, especially since they come in a variety of natural morphs, but I digress...

[Artemis]

Overpriced or underpriced depends on your perspective really. Like myself, I would LOoooove to have a green tree python- particularly one of the amazing speckled ones with blue and green and yellow all over it. However, that snake is easily a grand or more, depending on the breeder, which I could never ever justify spending in a million years on a snake. Part of me says, this dude is nuts trying to sell this snake for sixteen hundred bucks, but then the other part has the reality check and realizes that as long as ANY people are willing to pay that amount for one, then naturally thats what they are going to go for, which leaves me up the proverbial S creek for my green tree python dreams.

This doesnt necessarily mean the snake is overpriced. However rare and hard to come by something is, regardless of its literal material value, it becomes worth more simply based on its unavailability.

As things become less new and cool, and the morph craze changes, then the older morphs, and the ones that will be more common in time, will drop in price. Im counting on this little theory to eventually wind up with an albino ball python =)

It is fair to say the breeders deserve to make a profit, because they are in business and not running herps for pets programs for the populous at large. Plus, breeding is hard work, and takes careful planning and attention if its done right. More power to you guys.

So, when you know what kind of herp you want, research the going rates on it. For the pricier ones I find it can vary as much as 500 dollars... but that kinda makes you wonder WHY, too.

If an animal is out of your price range, its just out of your price range. My family breeds those bloody annoying mini yorkshire terrier dogs, and they go for like 800 bucks a pop. A lot of family friends want free ones, as the smaller ones are hard to come buy and no one wants to actually pay 800 bucks for one, but the breeder costs enccurred are a lot more than anyone thinks, and you never get something for nothing, so if you want a specific animal that you know can be pricey- be prepared to shell out for it. Just like in the dog world, im sure there are plenty of unscrupulous breeders in the herp world, and that old saying "you get what you pay for" couldnt be more true.

But.. if you happen to be a person who likes to sell em cheap and ya have some green tree pythons to get rid of.... ;)

Art

[Jeff_Favelle]

Excellent post Artemis. Its all perspective. People spend THOUSANDS on a new dog, when I can simply go to the pound and get one for free. I think those people are crazy. But I spend thousands on snakes, so the dog people probably think I'm crazy too! No worries.

And I actually agree with you, its very very tough to spend $1,000 of REAL money on a new snake, say a GTP. I NEVER spend real money on snakes. The only money I ever spend is money made through breeding them. I simply flip the money back into the snake. Like last year I cleared $12,000 on just the Jungles and Rainbows alone. Did I go put a down payment on a house or car? Did I buy a home theatre? Did I waste it in Vegas? (damn that woulda beeen coooool!).

No.

I bought a few Womas, some het albino stuff and called it a day. Just like this year. I'll spend another $35,000 on more snakes and stuff, but not a penny will come from working at a 9-5 job. I'm sure I could go to the bank and pull some strings and get $80,000 and get a wackload of Ball and Boa morphs and make it all back 20-fold, but from Day 1, my motto is "only buy more snakes with snake-money". That way, if anything, god forbid ever happens, I haven't touched any real money of my own.

Sorry to digress. I just like to show people that there is another way to getting thousands of dollars worth of animals other than bank loans or forking over every 2nd paycheck.

Cheers! :D

[Vengeance]

Or as another option, instead of going out and spending $10 K on the latest morph, see if you can find a Het for that morph. The price on a Het is allways much lower then tha of the actual morph and it's a good way to get started on a breeding project.

[Kevin McRae]

I think green anoles are underpriced, they were my first reptile as a pet, but people mistreat them becasue there cheap.They just say they will buy a new one if it dies.

I hate that

[Artemis]

Kevin- that also is another awesome, and very true perspective, and Jeff- I cant wait to see where you are with you snake breeding in another couple of years. At least you are excited about it, I like that in people who sell animals, no matter what kind they are. I see how the breeding thing becomes a return investment, the ability to experience the hobby in its truest and most involved form, with little overhead when you flip profits back in. You might end up in the black even, but I can see with you its more about keeping and working with the snakes than making bank, and I totally dig that, I think its awesome!

I on the other hand, not being a breeder, have only the "real money" to spend, and I think hubby would have a stroke if I spent a grand on a snake. I myself couldnt really justify it either, but im just waiting for albino BPs to get big....the ole visa finger is getting itchy. ;)

[Kevin McRae]

Is there any Reptile breeders who make all there money on soley reptiles, that does not include reptile food or supplies?

I ask becasue my dad says he will buy me any snake if i can find one.................hehehe, hope I find one

[Cruciform]

Maybe you should ask your dad to buy one of Ralph Davis's platinum ball pythons.

Unless he made multiple typos you're looking at 30-70k per.

I can't find them on the site any more though. Anyone know if he sold them? That's crazy :)