Tupac Amaru Shakur... [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

Matt_K

06-25-04, 02:34 PM

Okay, i've bitten my tongue long enough.... No, i am not a fan of Tupac or his music.. Yes, i am a fan of hip hop.. (insert your lame jokes here, if you must).. I guess that makes me a peice of trash...

First of all, Mykee, i nearly pissed when i read that.. LMAO..

Vengence, who are you??? Your comments are worthless.. Are you better then any of those 'peices of trash'??

Mike, Very well said...

Vengence, from the 'ghetto' to the inbred capitol of Ontario.. Good stuff.. I hardly think the 'peices of trash' in Scarborough have nothing better to do then go after your girlfriend when the sun goes down..

Im not sure why you feel the need to make comments as such, if you don't like the thread in question, just skip past it. When i read it this morning, i thought, 'ummm, did this guy know Tupac?'.. And i just moved on, knowing in the back of mind that someone would make comments like the ones above..

marisa

06-25-04, 02:55 PM

" Mourning a convicted rapist, word dawg!"

Making fun of a human life that was shot to death!!! Word Dawg!

Marisa

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 03:02 PM

HERE HERE MATT_K!!! Vengeance, i can't beleive what i just read! Dude seriously if you want to discriminate (and don't say you didn't because you so just did) go back to the 1900's. And just because some overly publicized people did some overly publicized things doesn't mean that ever person in the 'ghetto' is like that, it just entertainment and people who take it to heart really need to be smacked, but there is no need to be that close minded EVER! and like Matt_K said not every person in the 'ghetto' is out to get your girlfriend, just chill! oh and i guess im a 'peice of trash' too for likeing his music...thanks homie!

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 03:04 PM

good god i can't beleive some of the things that are being said...if i had takin' the time to read V.bh's little comment he would have gotten an earful too! holy crap the ignorence!!!

marisa

06-25-04, 03:15 PM

"holy crap the ignorence!!!"

The world is full of hate, descrimination, ugly angry people who have nothing better to do than spread their own unhappiness by insulting things they have no understanding of. Today, no one knows what "turn the other cheek" means, or walking past something you don't like.

Because of this, I hang out with reptiles.

Marisa

Matt_K

06-25-04, 03:16 PM

Because of this, I hang out with reptiles.

That and they don't complain about how much you talk.. Or dooo they???? :P LOL.. ;)

marisa

06-25-04, 03:17 PM

You'd be surprised. ;)

Marisa

Bartman

06-25-04, 03:22 PM

Totally agreed. I read this, thought it was lame, and skipped it..mostly because i hate rap and dont care for tupac, but i didnt open my mouth to start telling everyone who likes that is a "piece of trash"

I also agree on the fact that thats why i like reptiles even more, they dont talk/complain :D

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 03:25 PM

i think that might be why i enjoy reptiles as well! wow!

Vengeance

06-25-04, 03:42 PM

Fuuny that people jump all over a person when they don't even know the facts behind their opinion.

Fact 1) I do know what I'm talking about and there is a riseing gang problem in Ontario and mabye going back 8 years ago I was involved in it, I was a piece of trash back then, and I grew up and realized that if I ever wanted to make something of myself I better get out of this lifestyle. So when I see someone is a piece of trash I speak from personal experiance.

Fact 2) Where I live there have been home invasions, drive by shootings, assults, and most likely a large number of unreported violent crimes. There is also goverment houseing just around the corner from my apt. So when I say I'm affraid to let my girlfriend out at night by herself to walk to dog, it's not ignorance or racisium, it's fact and fear of what could happen.

Do I have an angry outlook on the current situation, yes I do. I'm angry that now being a violent criminal is "cool". It's all over our media, people like 50 cent are praised for there violent background and preaching about dealing drugs, acting violently, and being a part of a gang. These are the supposed "role models" of todays youth. You can see it everywhere, even add campains such and McDonalds and Milk have started to incorperate this "ghetto" culture into their adds. So no I'm not happy.

Also when I called 2 Pac a piece of trash, I call it like I see it. This person was a convicted felon, premoted the fact he was involved in gang affairs. Also the fact that he was shot and targeted specifically raises some other questions. People don't get targeted by those types of groups by not being involved in gang related events.

So when I say one less piece of trash on this earth, my words don't come from hate or anger, they come from fact and knowledge. 2 pac wasn't a positive enforcment on society as a whole. He was not a good person, and his death should not be missed by anyone.

Also the fact that you automatically assume that I'm a racist and a hate monger in unapriciated. I have no problems with black people or people of any race. As long as they are a law abiding and a positive member of society.

proud2bcanadian

06-25-04, 03:44 PM

Thanks da_illest for posting this. :thumbsup:
Tupac deserves the best. He is my favourite rapper, because I just connect with everything that he says.
http://www.chipublib.org/images/halloween/rip.gif

Originally posted by Vengeance
One less gang banger / piece of trash in the world, I sure won't miss him.
:confused: I don't know what you're talking about Vengeance. :hammer:

Originally posted by Matt_K
Vengence, who are you??? Your comments are worthless.. Are you better then any of those 'peices of trash'??

Well said Matt. Thank you!

Originally posted by marisa
Because of this, I hang out with reptiles.
LMAO!!!

"We talk a lot about Malcom X and Martin Luther King JR, but It's time to be like them, as strong as them. They were mortal men like us and everyone of us can be like them. I don't want to be a role model. I just want to be someone who says, this is who i am, this is what i do. I say what's on my mind." - Tupac Shakur

"Let me say for the record, I am not a gangster and never have been. Im not the thief who grabs your purse. Im not the guy who jacks your car. Im not down with the people who steal and hurt others. Im just a brother who fight back." - Tupac Shakur

"Support me... If you don't understand me don't write about me" - Tupac Shakur

http://www.tupacquotes.net/images/pac.jpg

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 03:50 PM

great post David!!!

proud2bcanadian

06-25-04, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Vengeance
Also when I called 2 Pac a piece of trash, I call it like I see it. This person was a convicted felon, premoted the fact he was involved in gang affairs. Also the fact that he was shot and targeted specifically raises some other questions. People don't get targeted by those types of groups by not being involved in gang related events.

So when I say one less piece of trash on this earth, my words don't come from hate or anger, they come from fact and knowledge. 2 pac wasn't a positive enforcment on society as a whole. He was not a good person, and his death should not be missed by anyone.

Also the fact that you automatically assume that I'm a racist and a hate monger in unapriciated. I have no problems with black people or people of any race. As long as they are a law abiding and a positive member of society.

Okay, you're not racist. The only problem I have is the 'piece of trash' part. Tupac was a role model to many people. There is still a lot of racism in the world, and he was one of the people who tried to stop it, and that is one reason why I say thanks to him. His death is missed by people because he was someone in a society that made a difference, a difference that has actually changed lives. Therefore, he would be classified as a hero - A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose. Yes, he and others (50 cent) do have a criminal background, but there is no reason to look upon their past. They tell us of their life, and all of the troubles that they go through. They are the ones who share their experiences to help others. If they didn't share their experiences, people who are going through the same thing would not know where to get advice from, meaning from someone who has actually gone through the same problems in life.

Thank you Tupac, for trying your best to stop racism, and to help others by sharing your experiences. I will always miss you as a hero and as a person!

Originally posted by python_diva_06
great post David!!!
Thanks!

marisa

06-25-04, 04:02 PM

Spare me your "I'm from the ghetto so I can say it" rant.

Try growing up in Southern California like I did. Yup. And guess what? I don't hate "thugs" rap music, of tupac. We WERE the victims of home invasion more times than I can count, some violent, and many more things I won't put here because half of you couldn't even handle hearing about it.

You say your words don't come out of anger but "facts" ???

I have MORE facts than you, I grew up in a FAR worse neighborhood then you, but our facts are totally different because I am not a closed minded unhappy person who seems to get joy out of a human beings death or at the very least, boasts about it.

Marisa
P.S. I also had criminal offenses as a minor (under 18) So I guess that means I don't deserve anyone caring when I die. Yup.

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 04:03 PM

another wonderful post and your welcome!

proud2bcanadian

06-25-04, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by ME!! lol, proud2bcanadian
Yes, he and others (50 cent) do have a criminal background, but there is no reason to look upon their past.

Some of the best lessons we ever learn are learned from past mistakes. The error of the past is the wisdom and success of the future. - Dale Turner

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

"The past does not equal the future." - Tony Robbins

"Learn from the past but don't dwell on it." - Unknown

"Let the past and its bad habits be done with." - Unknown

proud2bcanadian

06-25-04, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by python_diva_06
another wonderful post and your welcome!
lol! I'm like the Energizer Bunny! I keep going, and going, and going....

marisa

06-25-04, 04:09 PM

"Government housing" oooooo scary! People who need help are always criminals! They all deserved to be shunned, and stayed away from. What a sick sick generlization. I can't believe people still think like this. This is the reason the homeless have no shelters to go to. Because people like you and your "fear"

I played with trucks and my toys when I was under five living in the projects in Inglewood, california where I was born. So keep your girlfriend in if you like. I say, enjoy the wonderful canadian weather right now, and all it's people.

I will not continue because as always, threads like this get out of hand :| Me too! :P

Marisa

proud2bcanadian

06-25-04, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by marisa
I will not continue because as always, threads like this get out of hand :| Me too! :P

lol, I think I'm going to stop where I am too.
Unless something else comes up...

Matt_K

06-25-04, 04:14 PM

Vengence, most people that have 'rolled' with gangs or led a life of crime in the past, don't put down or discriminate against the ones that do it now.. Usually they give back to the community.. Ever heard of outreach programs?? Instead of writing off those kids as 'peices of trash' maybe you should take one under your wing, i mean, afterall, you're doing so much better for yourself now then they are..

Milk ads promote Gangs??? So, you can get a gat with a 2L of 2%?? SWEEET.. If you're refering to the 'more milk' ad with the guys rapping, that's not a 'Ghetto' culture, it's called MUSIC.. Hmmm, Beastie Boys are hip hop, and they're not 'ghetto'.. Instead of being stereotyical, and putting the Hip Hop and Rap communities into a pot and calling it 'Ghetto Culture', think about what it is.. It's ENTERTAINMENT.. Some of these artists have been through hell and back, you say you've led the life of a 'peice of trash' then appreciate what they're doing.. Yes, 50 Cent was shot, he was also living on the street at a very young age cause his parents were killed, but now he's making Millions telling his story.. Should kids mimic what these artists sing about? Probably not, but sometimes it happens.. But can you put all the blame on the music industry? No, you can't.. You don't think there are kids out there mimicing what they see in movies???

It's very unfortunate that some people look at these artists that sing about violence, and use them as role models and then mimic their lives after the artists, it really is, but you're no better by judging them..

Get aware, wake up, get a sense of humor
Quit tryin to censor music, this is for your kid's amusement
(The kids!) But don't blame me when lil' Eric jumps off of the terrace
You shoulda been watchin him - apparently you ain't parents - Eminem

So who's bringin the guns in this country? (Hmm?)
I couldn't sneak a plastic pellet gun through customs over in London
And last week, I seen a Schwarzaneggar movie
where he's shootin all sorts of these *guys* with a uzi
I sees three little kids, up in the front row,
screamin "Go," with their 17-year-old Uncle
I'm like, "Guidance - ain't they got the same moms and dads
who got mad when I asked if they liked violence?" - Eminem

Eminem: 'Take my music for what it's worth'
Interviewer: 'What is it worth?'
Eminem: 'Absolutely nothing'..

proud2bcanadian

06-25-04, 04:17 PM

VERY well said Matt!!
But you still didn't beat mine, lol :p

V.hb

06-25-04, 04:19 PM

Ignorance? hahaha, maybe for putting in the "word dog" line. The guy IS a convicted rapist, if he isnt, il begin inserting my foot into my mouth now. :)

Matt_K

06-25-04, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by V.hb
Ignorance? hahaha, maybe for putting in the "word dog" line. The guy IS a convicted rapist, if he isnt, il begin inserting my foot into my mouth now. :)

Yes, yes he is.. But so are many of the sports icons.. Does that make them any less a person?? The only comment that really bothered me, was:

One less gang banger / piece of trash in the world, I sure won't miss him.

As though it was a good thing that someone was gunned down.. I would never wish death upon anyone.. Well, maybe.. Nah.. Just kidding.. :D

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 04:25 PM

very true...never wish death upon ANYONE! it might come back and bite you in the @$$...

V.hb

06-25-04, 04:27 PM

Yes matt, being a convicted rapist does make them less of a person. He got what was coming to him. :) Reading back, only one person called me ignorAnt for my comment, and I still can't understand why stating a fact deems myself ingorant :)

PS matt, i'll be emailing you that sheet this weekend....finally..

python_diva_06

06-25-04, 04:30 PM

YOU DID NOT JUST SAY THAT DEATH WAS WHAT WAS COMING TO SOMEONE!?!?!?!?!?!?! ok...you know what that doesn't even deserve a responce...ok...im...im done...i can't take this crap anymore...

V.hb

06-25-04, 04:59 PM

Bah! I'am sorry I've offended you so much. I just feel people wave their right to sympathy when they commit such crimes. I guess I worded it wrong saying he deserved death but it kind of comes with the enviroment he was involved with.

mykee

06-25-04, 05:03 PM

Matt K, The Beastie Boys are as ghetto as it gets. Three middle-class bred Jewish guys, Come on dog! They had to FIGHT for their right to party, they didn't ask nicely, doesn't that say it all?!

"and I refuse to let my GF outside of the house after dark..."

Vengeance, I think that 2pac is the least of your concerns.

Vengeance

06-25-04, 05:23 PM

My problem with people like 50 cent, 2 pac, and every other rapper out there that talks about their past is that they are not promoting it as a horrible time in their life. They promote it as an over glorified good time. I don't wish death on anyone, and I didn't say I was glad he was dead. It's a horrible thing when anyone dies because life is a precious thing. But like I said, I'm not sad to see him go. Awareness is one thing, people should know about the atrocities that happen in places that like so that we can try and effect change, but to publicize it and make it a good thing is not good.

When I make mention to the got milk add campaign, what I'm trying to demonstrate is that this type of culture is seeping into everything, and yes it is just music, but the music still has a message behind it. In that message it does nothing but promote violence, drugs and gangs. This isn't the type of lifestyle that should be celebrated let alone promoted. These people are glorified and made heroes because of the horrible up bringing and the things they did in their life, to me that isn't right.

I'd just like to address Lisa's post for one moment. Besides the fact that Ontario is not as bad as any other crime infested area in the US does not make it any less real. Just because you were ok and not scared of the violence that was all around you, does not make my fear of the possibility that something could happen any less valid. Just because you think it isn't probable that it might happen doesn't mean that it won’t and it only takes one time to ruin a persons life forever, so why even take that chance. Also yes government housing does serve its purpose to try and get people of the streets, but when you think of government housing is it ever portrayed as a safe neighborhood? I can't think of one project, or government house area that is ever deemed "safe". So when I say that government housing is right around the corner make things less safe, I don't generalize saying that every person in that place is a horrible criminal and should be locked up away from my sight. But that doesn't take away from the fact that some people in those types of situations are prone to criminal activity. So again my fear is justified. Also Lisa were talking in levels of degrees here, just because a person has a criminal record does not make them a piece of trash. Continuing to break the law, committing violent crimes, and then promoting the fact that it's "cool" to do such things makes a person a piece of trash. I don't classify all criminals in this category, but if you are a never ending problem for society, then you’re a problem.

Its one thing to say you will learn from your mistakes, it's another all together to say you'll learn from your mistakes and then keep repeating them. For these types of people, 2 pac included, he used the line "learning from my mistakes" as a way to gain acceptance, while he continued making these mistakes over and over again.

Also just as another note I would like to post this link.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=06f848c9-6081-4442-9853-7ca698b16f39

This article is how Toronto is now like LA was 15 years ago. Personally I would not like to see the city get to this point.

Also yes I could have sat by and ignored this thread while everyone praised 2 Pac for the life that he lived, but I'm sorry this person does not deserve to be revered or publicized as a good person. He may have done some things some things to shed light on racism and things of that nature, but to try and say that his lifestyle was ok or should me mourned for that matter is not ok in my mind.

Also I'm can keep this civil as long as the rest of you can, I'm always open for a debate. Also I don't have a close minded opinion on the subject, this is my personal opinion from my personal experiences, and just as everyone is entitled to their opinion based on their experiences I'm entitled to mine.

Vengeance

06-25-04, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by mykee

Vengeance, I think that 2pac is the least of your concerns. [/B]

I'm not saying that 2 Pac is my problem; my point is that the life style that he promoted is my problem. By glorifying the "Thug Life" it makes people think it is ok to act in that matter when really, it's not.

Yve

06-25-04, 08:22 PM

funny...some self proclaimed "open minded" people really have a cut and dry way of interpreting things...hah..lets just shoot now and ask questions later...I don't think Veng is the one with the anger problem.
btw..I like the sound of his music but some lyrics are *#&$(#*$&(#*$&#&$)#$*& :)

chappy

06-25-04, 10:48 PM

I'm from Scarborough, so I guess I'm trash, so Vengeance you better tell your girlfriend to watch out cause "I'm a bad grandma bustin moves to shock ya" - skittles commercial :P

da_illest

06-25-04, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by proud2bcanadian
Thanks da_illest for posting this. :thumbsup:
Tupac deserves the best. He is my favourite rapper, because I just connect with everything that he says.
http://www.chipublib.org/images/halloween/rip.gif

:confused: I don't know what you're talking about Vengeance. :hammer:

Well said Matt. Thank you!

LMAO!!!

"We talk a lot about Malcom X and Martin Luther King JR, but It's time to be like them, as strong as them. They were mortal men like us and everyone of us can be like them. I don't want to be a role model. I just want to be someone who says, this is who i am, this is what i do. I say what's on my mind." - Tupac Shakur

"Let me say for the record, I am not a gangster and never have been. Im not the thief who grabs your purse. Im not the guy who jacks your car. Im not down with the people who steal and hurt others. Im just a brother who fight back." - Tupac Shakur

"Support me... If you don't understand me don't write about me" - Tupac Shakur

http://www.tupacquotes.net/images/pac.jpg

man, amazing post! pac just does what he has to do.. he's not like all these thugs running around now a days acting like they even now what the word thug meant to pac... to all you people hatin', hate on! to all those who actually know a little something about tupac, that is why you post such good posts.. he was a really good person at heart but he did what he had to do... i've lived in the roughest part of toronto in the past, and that doesn't make me a thug.. i've seen many bad things with my 2 eyes and tupac just always gave me a sense of strength, his music helped me be strong at times where i broke down.. tupac was an educated man, an articulate thug... he was really smart and not some crack head running around talking smack.. he chose to never touch coke, crack, or anything other then weed for that matter, with the exception of liquor of course... he was a real man and in his few years in the music industry, he's done more work and worked harder for that matter then all of you hating on him will do in your life times... you don't know him, so don't just throw him into a category, he IS his own category..

HeRpZ03

06-25-04, 11:40 PM

Yo Lex go online on msn

da_illest

06-25-04, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Vengeance
My problem with people like 50 cent, 2 pac, and every other rapper out there that talks about their past is that they are not promoting it as a horrible time in their life. They promote it as an over glorified good time. I don't wish death on anyone, and I didn't say I was glad he was dead. It's a horrible thing when anyone dies because life is a precious thing.

don't EVER compare 50cent, to tupac... 50 is a little girl compared to tupac, he has no heart... tupac promoted his past as glorious because he SURVIVED thru all of it.. if you fell from a sky scraper and survived to tell the tale, would you not promote it as if you made it? i sure would, i'd be thanking God i survived and would make it the most glorious, precious moment of my life.. now, i wouldn't recommend to others that they try it, but i'd tell them i made it in a sense of pride... tupac was a very proud person, even of his defects...

" One less gang banger / piece of trash in the world, I sure won't miss him."

that doesn't sound like your glad he died? he wasn't a piece of trash and you've probably done worse things then him for all i know.. for example, just because your name is vengeance and i know that revenge is a bad thing to do, it's not the "good way of life" as society has it, would you like it if i automacaly(sp?) threw you into a bad category when you pass and state, "One less very bad person / piece of trash in the world, I sure won't miss him."???

HeatherRose

06-26-04, 12:33 AM

Thank you Tupac, for trying your best to stop racism, and to help others by sharing your experiences. I will always miss you as a hero and as a person!

Everyone should have heroes...personally, mine is Jeffery Dahmer.

Seriously though, gangster rap is not any kind of positive music and never will be. Tupac wasn't doing anything to stop racism, all he did was promote a negative stereotype, one that is still promoted by todays ever-so packaged 'gangster' rappers. I love looking at my little sisters teen-beat magazine and seeing 50-cent right next to Hillary Duff.

Do people even think before trying to defend something so mindlessly?

ReptiliansDOTca

06-26-04, 01:11 AM

I guess I worded it wrong saying he deserved death but it kind of comes with the enviroment he was involved with.

And I suppose you believe he wanted to be in this environment, and that he chose to be here? Most real 'gangsters' are in that position as they felt they had no other choice, and often had horrible childhoods, parents without jobs or lacking money as a whole. Tupac rapped about his struggles, and one reason he was so popular is because a lot of people could relate to him and his problems.

By glorifying the "Thug Life" it makes people think it is ok to act in that matter when really, it's not.

I wouldn't really say he glorified it. If someone is stupid enough to think that a life of dealing drugs, murder, and having to worry about every step you make, knowing your life is on the life, is something to be glorified, then how can you blame Tupac for their stupidity?

My problem with people like 50 cent, 2 pac, and every other rapper out there that talks about their past is that they are not promoting it as a horrible time in their life. They promote it as an over glorified good time.

Again, if someone is stupid enough to believe a life of killing, death, drugs, and fearing for your life is something to strive for, then you cannot blame a rapper for their stupidity. If I tell you jumping off a bridge onto a cement floor is fun, and the thing to do, will you do it? Everyone keeps referring to how they glorify it, maybe it is just me, but all I hear is how bad their lives have been.

Its one thing to say you will learn from your mistakes, it's another all together to say you'll learn from your mistakes and then keep repeating them. For these types of people, 2 pac included, he used the line "learning from my mistakes" as a way to gain acceptance, while he continued making these mistakes over and over again.

Again, do you think he wanted to be in the life he was? Anyhow, rap is not the only type of music that promotes illegal activity. I am sure we all know this.

One thing I love about Eminem, is that he glorifies the truth in that people are so quick to blame others for their problems, or for the way theirs kids act. As Matt quoted from his lyrics, it is the parents' responsibility to raise their children properly, and if they fail to do so, why is it fair to blame others for this?

da_illest

06-26-04, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
Everyone should have heroes...personally, mine is Jeffery Dahmer.

Seriously though, gangster rap is not any kind of positive music and never will be. Tupac wasn't doing anything to stop racism, all he did was promote a negative stereotype, one that is still promoted by todays ever-so packaged 'gangster' rappers. I love looking at my little sisters teen-beat magazine and seeing 50-cent right next to Hillary Duff.

Do people even think before trying to defend something so mindlessly?

ummm, no offense, but if you actually read what myself and many others wrote in his defence, you'll see that we put a hell of a lot of thought into it... also, how many of his songs have you heard? his peoms? his books? his writings? his interviews? well i've seen, heard, and read pretty much all of it so i'd say i'm in a pretty good position to teach you all here the knowledge i've aquired.. his songs are like a book or a movie.. i don't see you saying the movie gladiator is a negative movie and in fact you probably like it.. well, think of tupac as the gladiator, he's done many bad things, but because he had to.. tupac's songs are like the movie, telling his many battles with life and how he succeeded thru them all but was back stabbed at the end, causing him to die...

don't take this to heart, i'm just trying to educate you on tupac a bit before you speak and compare his "gangster rap" to that of 50 cent's.. i believe the reason many people dislike pac is because of ignorance... people just throw him into the general gangster rap that has made hip hop such a bad thing... no hard feelings to anyone i'm trying to educate here alright?

Vengeance

06-26-04, 01:35 AM

da_illest

The name Vengeance comes from the comic book Ghost Rider, Vengeance was a character in the comic book.

Now you could be right, I could have done 10 x worse things in my past then 2 pac ever has, but here is the difference maker. I won't ever publicize the things I've done, try and make them seem ok because I survived. If I did half of the stuff that 2 pac did, I would not be sitting here saying, "Yea, I used to be a gangster, I did all this stuff, but now I'm a rapper so it's ok". I wouldn't publicize that this was what I did to get to where I am today. I would be ashamed of the things I did, I wouldn't want to make a spectacle out of the things I did because they aren’t things that a person should be proud of. Now if 2 Pac lived in the ghetto was able to stay out of gangs, stay away from the violence and drugs and made it out to become the person he was today. That would be a much more positive message to put out there then, I lived in the ghetto, I was in a gang, I did some violent things, but now that I've made it out, I want everyone to know what I did so they will respect me more. NO! I won't respect a person more because he was a criminal and was able to make it out of a horrible environment, I respect the person that in that horrible environment would be able to remain a law abiding citizen and still make something of himself after the fact, if he became a rapper or a rocket scientist. That is a message worth glorifying and publicizing, 2 pac should never be proud of his past, he should have learned from it, not glorified it. If he had of learned from his mistakes and tried to get away from that type of lifestyle then maybe he would still be alive today.

But to sit here and justify and morn his lifestyle is not right. He didn't lead a positive life. Now this isn't saying that every criminal, or every rapper, or every gang banger is a piece of trash. But if you are proud of the horrible things you have done in the course of your life and then publicize the fact you did these things and try and justify and make it out like this type of lifestyle is ok, that makes a person a piece of trash. That type of lifestyle should not be a badge on your sleeve, it shouldn't be promoted in anyway, a person should take from those experiences and learn from then, not continue down the past and justify the things that you do/did because of the environment you grew up in.

Now here is something I'm curious about, what is the difference between 50 cent and 2 pac. They both promote the same message. They were gang members, they have committed violent crimes, been involved in gang activates, and they are proud of it. Spreading this message across the air waves like MTV and every piece of media. Do you honestly think that this is the type of message we should tolerate? Can you sit there and tell me that publicizing yourself as a gangster is ok? These things are not things that should be socially accepted, but they are, and they are accepted because of people like 2 pac and 50 cent who glorify their horrible past as an ok thing.

That is what bothers me about people with that type of message.

Vengeance

06-26-04, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by ReptiliansDOTca

And I suppose you believe he wanted to be in this environment, and that he chose to be here? Most real 'gangsters' are in that position as they felt they had no other choice, and often had horrible childhoods, parents without jobs or lacking money as a whole. Tupac rapped about his struggles, and one reason he was so popular is because a lot of people could relate to him and his problems.

I've always hated this type of statement because there is ALLWAYS another choice. It may not be the easy choice but every person who lives in that type of environment isn't a gang banger. He may not of liked being in that situation but it was still HIS CHOICE. He consciously made the choice to be in a gang, he consciously made a choice to commit violent acts of crime. He made those choices, nobody else made them for him. Then to publicize that he made those choices as a means of survival, to me is BS. There are always other choices, no one has to be a violent criminal, but he made that choice. Now he was glorifying and making it ok because he made those choices because of where he lived.

Again, if someone is stupid enough to believe a life of killing, death, drugs, and fearing for your life is something to strive for, then you cannot blame a rapper for their stupidity. If I tell you jumping off a bridge onto a cement floor is fun, and the thing to do, will you do it? Everyone keeps referring to how they glorify it, maybe it is just me, but all I hear is how bad their lives have been.

But the thing is why do they have to sit there and say that they have done all these things and look at me now? I mean think of it from this end. These public figures are sitting around saying, yea I did this and that, and I committed this crime and that crime, and I was in a gang. But look at me now, I make millions of dollars because of what I used to be. How are people supposed to perceive that kind of message? To them it looks as if because of the things they did, the person they were, they were able to become this superstar. That is not the type of message a person with such public influence should be sending. Sure they may have had a tough upbringing, but don't sit there and tell everyone every horrible thing you've done. Reflect on the fact that yes things were tough, yes they were bad, but I've moved past that and I'm a better person. That's the message they should try and promote.

HeatherRose

06-26-04, 02:08 AM

I'm not offended.

I haven't seen gladiator.

I don't feel that I need to be 'educated' on why tupac wasn't such a bad guy. I'm sure he wasn't a bad guy. I don't agree with his messages or the image. This music is glorifying how big and bad these guys are. And, yes its just my opinion that this is simply the lamest thing ever.

And, finally:
if it was my favourite singers bday/dday, why the hell would I post it here? This kind of post has happened before, and all that resulted were flames that no one was any better for.

djc3674

06-26-04, 04:20 AM

"and I refuse to let my GF outside of the house after dark..."

Well, maybe that's a good thing...besides, I am sure there is a leash law where you live..LOL

Tupac was one of the best rapper's that ever lived. Let's see another rapper put albums out after they die! DOH!

latazyo

06-26-04, 08:27 AM

like BIG

python_diva_06

06-26-04, 09:02 AM

2 Pac was trying to stop racism haven't you ever listened to CHANGES it's the most beautiful song i'v ever heard...

"I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro pull the trigger kill a ****** he's a hero
Give crack to the kids who the hell cares one less ugly mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things changed, and that's the way it is."

you have to listen to the irony in his voice to truly understand this song...

oh also

"Some say tha Blacker tha berry
Tha sweeter tha juice
I say, tha darker tha flesh and tha deeper tha roots
I give a hollar to my sisters on welfare
Tupac cares, but don't nobody else care
I know they like ta beat ya down a lot
And when ya come around tha block brothers clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry ya eyes
Never let up
Keep ya head up."

this isn't exactly trying to stop racism but it is trying to help people get through tough circumstances.

Dev_Man

06-26-04, 09:16 AM

It's funny how when someone dies they're practically declared saints:rolleyes:

python_diva_06

06-26-04, 09:21 AM

i DO know what you mean there...for me the big SAINT man right now is Ronald Reagan...THE MAN TRYED TO GET RID OF WELFARE!!!! seriously how good could he have been! but anyway sorry about that...

plus im not saying he's (2Pac) was a saint im just saying that there are worse people to tear your teeth into, so to speek.

daver676

06-26-04, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by da_illest
[B] well i've seen, heard, and read pretty much all of it so i'd say i'm in a pretty good position to teach you all here the knowledge i've aquired..

LMAO! I almost fell over when I heard this! BAHAHA!

So what could you "teach" me bud? The most efficient way to smoke crack? Or maybe how to load 9mm? I highly doubt that there is anything that you could teach me about this guy that I would actually want to learn.

Keep the comedy coming!

latazyo

06-26-04, 09:58 AM

I watched this thread, after a while of being open there were only 4 posts, then someone made a comment and in came the bandwagon

he simply posted his appreciation for a musician...I don't see anyone making comments about Metallica in any other threads....btw, I'm a large metallica fan and a large rap fan...just try to understand that not necessarily everyone has the same musical taste

V.hb

06-26-04, 10:31 AM

ReptiliansDOTca

06-26-04, 11:32 AM

I have no idea why I am defending him or the topic, but where do you see him promoting his lifestyle? He raps about his struggles in life, if somehow you see this as promoting it could you please explain.

Come to think of it, the reason I am posting is because I am so sick and tired of people blaming media, music, video games and movies for the way their children end up. As for the difference between Tupac and 50 Cent, Tupac's rap is more like Poetry, and every song isn't about how he got shot nine times and has twelve hoes. Tupac was an artist, and was actually pretty smart. He went to one of the best dramatic schools in the states. I don't think he really wanted to be in his position.

JonD

06-26-04, 11:47 AM

This is wagon country!:D

Matt_K

06-26-04, 12:52 PM

I don't see anyone making comments about Metallica in any other threads....

Cause those of us that don't listen to rock and what not, could care less about those that do (not in a bad way, some of my best friends HATE what i listen to).. I know i personally listen to just about everything, but i listen to more hip hop, rap and reggae then anything else, but when someone starts a thread about going to see Metallica live or to Ozzfest or whatever rock venue, i don't pipe up with my thoughts on that music (to me, most of it sounds like screaming)..

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone has different taste's in music.. No need to be ignorant about it.. =/

proud2bcanadian

06-26-04, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Matt_K
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone has different taste's in music

:thumbsup:

latazyo

06-26-04, 01:03 PM

Matt, I was saying that since no one makes comments in those threads, they also shouldn't in this thread

quote the part that says I'm a large rap fan too...no ignorance included

Matt_K

06-26-04, 02:24 PM

LOL, i was quoting you and commenting on it, i agree with what you're saying.. I wasn't saying you're ignorant, sorry, i should have made it clearer.. :D

SCReptiles

06-26-04, 02:26 PM

don't EVER compare 50cent, to tupac... 50 is a little girl compared to tupac, he has no heart... tupac promoted his past as glorious because he SURVIVED thru all of it..

I can’t stay out of this any longer. Pac was a poser. He didn’t survive anything (he is dead). In the early 80’s he was member of digital underground. Yes, he sang and danced with humpty! Gangster rap got popular, so he got some tattoos and became a gangster. He promoted violence, drug dealing, and female degradation. Anyone who supports that is a piece of trash, just like was stated! And who, in the blue hell, would consider him a roll model? He had a look and a voice and a wise promoter used that to get rich. That is the end of the Tupac story! A roll model? Hell no!

SCReptiles

06-26-04, 02:33 PM

Tupac come up with the hard core crew!

JeffT

06-26-04, 02:36 PM

Nicely said SCreptiles

I hate this whole Tupac militia thing. Everyone is all like "RIP Tupac" and treat him like he was a god, its pretty pathetic. They are overlooking that he had been to prison a few times for serious things. Hes killed people, assaulted people, and was a hard drug dealer, he isnt some innocent little angel, sorry, I mean " lil thug".

munchy

06-26-04, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by JeffT
Nicely said SCreptiles

Hes killed people, assaulted people, and was a hard drug dealer.

so???

SCReptiles

06-26-04, 02:47 PM

tupac promoted his past as glorious because he SURVIVED thru all of it..

Munchy, this is so.......

latazyo

06-26-04, 02:48 PM

surely he wasn't a role model, but was an excellent artist, and there's no problem with having a good artist that you support

munchy

06-26-04, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by SCReptiles
Munchy, this is so.......
that was HIS problem...

he was a good artist. i always hated on him like you guys do. then after he died i actually listenned to his raps and hes now one of my favourite rap artists.

SCReptiles

06-26-04, 03:02 PM

Someone said his music was intended to stop racism? It wasn’t violent? This will probably get me banned from snakes, yet again. But I am telling you, you reap what you sow. My religion teaches that so do most of the others.

2PAC LYRICS

"Stay True"

[Tupac]

Yah nigga, Drop the top on your mutha****in ride
This how we do it on the west coast BAABBBY

Rollin' down the Four O Five
Gettin' high
White boys done wrecked their ****
Tryin to check my ride
I ain't being bootsy
Crusin' in a Six-o Impala
Drivin' like I'm in a Hooptee
car full of ballin' caps
keep yo hand on the strap
and take all the craps
Niggas know my steel-lo
all legit
but I'm drapped
like a nigga movin' kilo
**** don't stop
cuz i can make that *** drop
make the front pop
And Hit the three wheel motion
All Day
Hit the freeway
take it easy, uhh
Let's slide
And pick-up some hoochies
ride
right back to the movies
High
talking back to the screen drinkin' liquor
Havin' big dreams of gettin' richer
I'm livin that

[Chorus (4x) (Tupac)]

Thug Life, y'all know the rules
gotta do whatcha gotta do (Stay True)

Big Stretch represent the real nigga
flex, Live squad and this mutha ****er catch wreck

[Stretch]
Thug Life
sharp as a roughneck
Shakin' the dice, we roll long, ain't nothin' nice
so the vice wanna follow us around (raize up)
Got 'em runnin' as we clown thru the town (blaze up)
Another one, had to throw another gun
Don't need another case
you can see it on my face son
But I ain't fallin' yet
And I gotta give a shout to where my ball is at

[Tupac]

Mophreme Tell 'em why the hoes dream
gettin high off a nigga like a dope fiend

[Mophreme]

Cuz I'm non-stop, and I'm always hustlin'
twenty four seven, ain't nothin buck
but when a young G's flippin keys for a livin'
Try to make a mill off the time I'm givin'
trippin'
mad
I'm crazy
Can't nobody fade me
And I been goin' insane lately
And everybody tryin ta hold me back
I'm about to snap
You better move back
You know I led a.....

[Chorus (4x) (Tupac)]

Thug Life, y'all know the rules
gotta do whatcha gotta do (Stay True)

Maaaannnn, I don't worry about the Five-O
if they start,
cuz it's all about survival
Just stay smart
Keep your mind on your bank roll
always
stay ahead of these stank hos
These days
It's an all out rat race
And look at MEEE just caught another cat case
That makes three
My laywers getting cash up the ***
Don't even ask
Why I'm buck wild ?
Don't smile
don't laugh
To the young G's comin up
peep game
Don't let the money make you change
or act strange
Stay broke
It's all in together now
Keep pumping loud
till the crowd
bring the top down
Is that Tupac Thug Life ?
Hell Yah
Try to dirty up my name
but it's still here
which way do I turn ?
i'm strapped
Lost in the storm
I can't turn back
with that...

[Chorus (4x) (Tupac)]

Thug Life, y'all know the rules
gotta do whatcha gotta do (Stay True)

[ www.azlyrics.com ]

munchy

06-26-04, 03:04 PM

lol you guys act like he was the only one writing lyrics like that.

SCReptiles

06-26-04, 03:10 PM

Of course he wasn’t the only one writing it, but he is one of the ones that has reaped from it. If the others continue to glorify violence, I will be posting their autopsy photos before too long.

V.hb

06-26-04, 03:33 PM

People don't bring up bands like metallica etc because you don't often see them singing about gangs and their lives in the 'hood'.

The members of metallica (and many other rock bands) are certainly not role models, however they don't go around promoting or glorifying the life of a drug abuser(as they are known former addicts and alcholics). They do have a few songs on the issue but they dont promote it. I dont see the comparison. That just goes into the debate of which music do you prefer, and this thread has nothing to do with that, these discussions ALWAYS go the wrong way. I personally listen to rock, and don't like rap, if I did, I still wouldn't be supporting a convicted rapist/thug.

da_illest

06-26-04, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by daver676
LMAO! I almost fell over when I heard this! BAHAHA!

So what could you "teach" me bud? The most efficient way to smoke crack? Or maybe how to load 9mm? I highly doubt that there is anything that you could teach me about this guy that I would actually want to learn.

Keep the comedy coming!

i don't know the most efficient way of smoking crack, i never touched it.. i don't know how to teach you the best way to load a nine, i've never owned one or even touched one when i've seen it for that matter... i was saying i'd teach you a little about tupac because i do know much more then many of you do about him.. ignorance is why people dislike him.. and if you choose to stick to the way you are and speak the things you do without even knowing a bit about what your speaking, then your an ignorant person... i don't know what brings you to assume i smoke crack and bust guns, cause i like tupac?? you see, there you go throwing me into a category just like others do tupac.. you don't even know me, i suggest you don't speak of me and/or accuse me of doing something i don't....

da_illest

06-26-04, 04:41 PM

tupac was not a poser, he had two very different sides to him.. like i believe every person does.. don't lie and say you don't screptiles.. tupac probably did kill people, he probably did assault people, he probably sell drugs, but because he had to.. that's what i hate with today's justice system, in order to not get arrested, you have to take the beating and run, scream, yell, or get stabbed and maybe dead.. if someone comes up to rob you, with a weapon, you then take the weapon and beat him with it so you don't get beat, who goes to jail? you! even though you defended yourself.. i've lived thru it, it isn't fair... maybe if he didn't do all he had done, he'd have died at a much earlier age.. he did it all with good intentions, with a good heart, he had to to survive.. his lyrics explain his lifestyle.. he had to clutch a pistol 24/7, he had to be ready to shoot, many people wanted to kill him out of greed, for money... he's always had to watch his back.. i don't appreciate the pictures you posted in the fashion you posted them but its your life and what i say probably won't affect you... he changed the world, its too bad many ignorant people just saw him as a hard thug and want to be like him with bad intentions, like robbing people for the heck of it, shooting people because they looked at them wrong, etc... pac wasn't like that, he'd shoot at you if you shot at him, he'd rob if he had to eat... don't get me wrong, there's probably many bad things he did as a teenager with no good intentions, like fight people, etc.. but what teenager hasn't? he just made his life public.. and i bet that if you had the choice of making your life, good and bad, public to be a multi-millionare and own every snake that ever caught your eye, you'd do it.,,

he did not rape that girl... his friends or people he knew probably did or they set him up, i've seen this happen now a days... he got arrested because police and the government did not like him from day one and always looked for reasons to arrest him, this time they had something to do it on.... his life was kinda sad at times. he worked his butt off and tried to enjoy his short life while having others constantly trying to screw him, not letting him do his thing.. but he stayed strong, and that makes him a role model.. he stayed strong thru things that many people woulda commited suicide over.. he gives many people the courage to stay strong thru ruff times.. and life is full of those times..

2pac also was in a shoot out with cops once.. but he didn't go to jail because the officers had unregistered guns and started shooting at him first.. that there proves that they where all out too get him.. and the reason biggy shot pac, and the reason they tried to set him up and put in jail over that rape bs, is because they wanted the lime light, all the money, which he had.. he shined more then all the other good rappers back then and the other rappers had MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH harsher songs.. listen to Notorious Big's lyrics and tell me what you think then..

da_illest

06-26-04, 04:49 PM

tell me this wasn't a good person! represent pac.. you wanna start posting lyrics like you know the true meaning behind them? this is a little game i'm going to surely enjoy.. this is one his most straight forward songs.. this goes out to all my boys!

on top that, i'll give you a link to here the song to go with the lyrics! HERE (http://members.rogers.com/friedrice/friend.wma) I'm bustin' at they whole crew jigga REMEMBER ME! wOOt!

Never
You ain't never had a friend like me
Believe dat
Cause you ain't never had a friend like me

See at night I watch the sky
I take another breath
I smoke my Newport to the butt
Like it's the last edit left
Just me and you evading enemies
Let you get my last shot of Hennessy
Ain't never had a friend like me
Remember memories so vividly
Was once a little dust kicker now becomes a G
Who can I call when they all fail
Collect calls to my dogs from the County Jail
Sendin me mail
Heard the blocks in the same shape
Ain't nothing changed
Niggaz slangin at the same place
The same faces
We suppose to always hate are foes
This life style is forever
Watch the game unfold
Sheddin Crocodile tears
Just got life plus
And you wonder if these white judges like us
Just stay strong
We'll appeal
Nigga you'll be free
Down with cha to the very end
Cause you ain't never had a friend like me

(Chorus 2x)

I'm down for you so ride with me
My enemies your enemies
Cause you ain't never had a friend like me
Nobody knows where we'll be
My enemies your enemies
Cause you ain't never had a friend like me

How can I be blamed
forgive me Lord I'm insane
In search of fame
Won't hurt to change
Follow in the foot steps of past dealers
Equipped with ski masks
No witnesses, as we blast fearless
Reckon now they feel us
in this act of war
more casualties
no survivors
Any man that defies us
Quickly dies
Cuz we ridahs
In my quest for chips
We wear vest
Equipped with automatic fire
We reply when my enemies trip
Me and you against the nation
Whispering while we conversatin
Cuz niggaz died over information
How much more can we take?
Expect us all to wait
The world ain't ready for us yet
So lets make Clinton pay
(ha ha)
They never wanted us to make it
Everything that we posses
We had to fight and take it
I think the president is smokin weed
Bumpin this beat
Makin a livin out my misery
Till he got a friend like me

(Chorus 2x)

Promise to visit
I know it's rough in your cell
Recieving mail to the county jail
This is hell
when I was younger, I could picture livin
In Luxury
So how the edit did I end up in prison ?
edit snitches
They got me crossed by my own side
I found him by his self
No drama, he alone die
Nobody cry
Should have never testified
You got my nigga 25
so now I sacrifice your life
Help to seperate me from my dog
Broken ties
Why the edit should I let you live?
When I'm dead inside
Rapid fire my delivery
I'm bustin at their whole crew
Nigga remember me
Hit up my Outlaw set
Then throw my pistol in the ocean
Ditch my ski mask
And get to straight coastin
It's visitin day at San Quinton
Always there to see your closest road dog
Cuz you ain't never had a friend like me

(Chorus 4x)

Come after us best be complete
My enemies your enemies
Cause you ain't never had a friend like me
Nobody knows where we'll be
My enemies your enemies
Cause you ain't never had a friend like me
You ain't never had a friend like me
(Till song fades