Staple diets

[meow_mix450]

I was wondering what incests can be a staple diet for chameleons

Meow

[Bartman]

crickets, like everything. :)

From the info i got off this link and analyzing the nutritional values of each food item, i would conclude butter worms are also a good supplement. I give my guy a little bit of everything anyway but could that be? Correct me if im wrong.

[kidchameleon]

crickets, silkworms, superworms, butterworms, and mealworms

[latazyo]

I don't think incest is good for anything...jk

I feed him crickets mainly with superworms

[Bartman]

hey latazyo, how big is your russian tortoise? I have one too, and im getting her a male soon. Mine is about 5 inches in diametre

[latazyo]

it is just a baby, I think the SCL is 4.25"

[meow_mix450]

so feeding meal worms as a staple is fine??? Like if there main diet was meal worms that would be o.k??? and the feed a little bit of crikets

Meow

[panther_dude]

FEEDING JUST MEAL WORMS IS NOT GOOD THEY CONTAIN LOTS OF CUTCHIN WHICH IS REALLY HARD FOR YOUR CHAMELEON TO DIGEST. i WOULD KEEP FEEDING CRIX REGULARLY BUT ALSO THROW IN SOME MEAL WORMS TWICE A WEEK AND SOME SUPER WORMS ONCE A WEEK.

Also you should consider wild caught insects. As they are the best as far as nutrition goes. When collecting wild caught uinsects make sure 110% that the area you are collecting from is completely natural, with no pestisides for fertilizers being used. Also anouther thing to watch out for is brittly coloured insects. In the wild bright colours mean beware I am poison. Things like white moths, buterflies ( cept monarch), grasshoppers (again watchout for brite colours), I would be weary of catipillars as some though they are not poision as a butterfly can be as a cattipillar.
Also aside from insects you could try feeding once in a while not to often pinky mice, and snails. Although your cham might not go for it is is worth a try, they are very high in calcium and other nutrients, so again dont feed them these items too often.

Well I hope I helped you out. Good luck with her.

Wade Shaw

[vtbigyellow]

any advice on catching insects from outside? any traps, or just go at them with a net or something?

[Bartman]

net...or a bear trap :p

[HeatherRose]

I think you mean chitin :) Chitin is the protein that makes up the exoskeleton of many insects, including mealworms. In some lizards (beardies are a good example) build up of chitin can lead to problems.

Be extra super careful when you're taking insects out of the wild, even though they might not be 'brightly' coloured they could still be dangerous. Parasites are another problem to consider.

I feed my chameleon a mix of crickets and mealworms, and I pick up silkworms for him whenever I get the chance.

[Collide]

Id say the top two good staples are crix and silks, mealies and superworms are not as bad as people make them out to be though if feed and keep properly these can be a great feeder. her is a article on them

http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2003/oct2003/mealworms/mealworms.html

[Brock]

The best feeder of all is cockroaches. They're prolific (live up to 3 years or more), they breed like nobody's business, they can be gutloaded with anything you give them, and they're easy to keep, unlike frikin crickets.

If you can't get roaches, I'd opt for silkworms, stick bugs, praying mantids, sow bugs, june bugs (japanese beetles), earthworms, slugs, green grasshoppers. The most experienced chameleon owner that I have known said they love slugs and green bugs out of everything the best, he also said a variety of phasmids (stick bugs) are great.

[meow_mix450]

Nice, i was planinng on breeding silkworms so i think im gonna go with the silkworms as a staple diet. I beleive they set in a new law say not to use pesticies, so go wild lol i could b wrong

Meow

[vtbigyellow]

any instructions on catching them? should i just take a net and run it through a patch of field? sorry about all the dumb questions, just never done this before

[kidchameleon]

haha, well yeah, i guess. what else can you really do? im sure there is some way to set up a trap, but i jut dont know it. good luck

[panther_dude]

YES JUST BUY A BIG FEILD NET AND RUN IT THROUGH SOME LONG GRASS. fROM THERE YOU CAN PICK OUT ANY INSECTS THAT MIGHT BITE, STING, OR BE POISIONIS.

aLSO YOU WONT REALLY HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PARASITES IN THE BUGS. NOT MANY INSECTS CEPT FOR SOME ANT SPECIES GET PARRASITES.

jUST MAKE 110% SURE THAT NO PESTISIDES ARE USED IN THAT AREA.

iT ALSO SEEMS TO ME THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST REPEATING WHAT i AM SAYING, BUT JUST WORDING IT DIFFERENTLY. i DONT MIND BUT ITS REALLY NOT NEEDED.

GOOD LUCK
WADE

[meow_mix450]

there are indeed ways of catching bugs jsut gotta search

Meow

[panther_dude]

meow mix i woukld not use the silk worms as a staple diet but rather a little treat once in a while. They are very high in fat and protein, too much of these could possibly harm your chameleon. but deffinaTLY make it way over weight.

[dank7oo]

Silks are the BEST staple diet for chams if you can get ahold of them. Crix would be a second best bet. Superworms as a third choice. Superworms reeally arent all that bad, and for chameleond with tongue problems (like Ichiro or Roziel) they aer the only meams of letting those chams catch their food as supposed to force feeding.

Jason

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by panther_dude
meow mix i woukld not use the silk worms as a staple diet but rather a little treat once in a while. They are very high in fat and protein, too much of these could possibly harm your chameleon. but deffinaTLY make it way over weight.

Silkworms are high in fat??????? Since when? Where did you read that bit of info? I've never seen anything that said silkies are high in fat. They do have more protein, but that doesn't make them a bad food choice. Are you confusing them with waxworms?

Typical analysis comparing crickets and silkworms:

Livefood Supplies from Seritech (U.K.) (http://www.silkworm-supplies.co.uk/nutri00.html)

Silkworms Fat 10.6% Crude Protein 63.8%

Crickets Fat 22.7% Crude Protein 11.4%


Any silk/web/cocoon producing insect will be high in calcium and probably protein too.



You might get some benefit from reading this article: Nutrition by Dr. Sue Donoghue VMD, DACVN (http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2002/sept2002/nutrition/nutrition_sept_02.html) at Chameleon News Online E-zine. The article discusses the use and benefits of silkworms. Personally, I'd use silkworms over crickets if I could afford them as a constant diet.

[vipervenom]

Yeah. Silkworms are a heck of a lot healthier than cricks. If I could find it I would post the nutrition chart I had for cricks and different worms. I think you are thinking about mealies or wax worms. But Silkies are one of the best staple foods (besides wild insects IMO) you can find.

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

panther_dude says : iT ALSO SEEMS TO ME THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST REPEATING WHAT i AM SAYING, BUT JUST WORDING IT DIFFERENTLY. i DONT MIND BUT ITS REALLY NOT NEEDED

LOL, where was this?

Anyhow, about recommending wild bugs, just WHY? Even if your "110% sure" that the bugs came from a non-fertilized area, what makes you think that those bugs you got didnt just travel from 10-20 kilometers away where they just chowed down on a toxic buffet of fertilized grass? The only way to collect wild insects is if you know exactly what they are and how your animal will react to them. If you don't know what your feeding then all your doing is getting free food to avoid the cost of crickets and worms and if you can't afford those, you shouldnt own a lizard. IMO.

[Bartman]

I agree with kyle, theirs absolutly no need to get things from the wild. You can get what they need in stores or online and you can be sure they dont have pesticides.

Heres that chart you were askin about.

http://www.canadianfeeders.com/faq.shtml#nine

[meow_mix450]

a very good point made you really cant be 110% sure there free from pesticies, but maybe WC then bred?? just a thought, we all got our opinions on this

Meow

[panther_dude]

oh my lord. Yes there is a big difference in wild caught and captive bred insects.
For one thing insects unless they are magritory they do not travel for miles. If they are in an area with lots of different sorts of vegitation and are safe from predators they have no reason to travel so far. They only move those far distances when there food supply has run out or feel threatened.
If you go to a farmers feild that has lets say 40 acrse or even 10 that you know doesnt use pestisides there will not be a probleme.

Now your saying well just buy the insects from stores its the same thing, you just dont want to spend the money.
Well actually no its not the same thing. Wild insects are able to gut load themselves. They are constantly eating a healthy food source that makes them really nutritouse. Its been proven over and over that they are better for your chameleons by top vets and herptologists. So I dont see why you guys are trying to argue with me over this

Breeding captive insects is still the same as buying them from the store because they are still eating commercial gut loads. In reality wc insects are only good for a period of 24 hours. after this time they lose the natural gut load they have and start eating the commmercail stuff which is still good but not as good as a wild diet.

oh ya my bad bout the silkies i was thinnking wax worms

Oh ya kyle I make 14 bucks an hour buying feeders is no probleme why dont you keep stupid commments like that to your self. I think you need to do some research on wild caught insects, its not the fact of saving money they are better for you herps. Ask anyone who actually knows what they are talking about.

wade shaw

[meow_mix450]

lets not start aguring here lol, we all got our opinions on this, are butter worms high in fat too???

Meow

[panther_dude]

I am not starting an argument but stating the facts that wild caught insects should be a major part of your chameleons diet.

But for some reason people who havent even studied the issue always have so much to say about it.

[meow_mix450]

i agree but most people here dont own that 10 acrse of land here, most of us live near a town or a city where pesticies are sprayed near the area, but i beleive this is now banned. Next year we should be able to use all the insects, but years before people didnt want to take the risk, of killing your cham. But you do have a good point

Meow

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

I dont see what Kyle did wrong and what you making 14 bucks an hour buying insects(how do you make money buying things?) has to do with anything? I didnt see any stupid comments either.

I think that captive bred insects, with SPECIALY prepared gutload that has the nutrition all figured out is better than wild diets. Sure, they may get more variety, but with the gutloads we make, we can be assured the nutrients needed will be there, there will be no problems related to toxicity(it is spelled like that) and worrying about parasites can be eliminated. Insects can and do travel. An insect(such as a grasshopper) is not guaranteed to stay on someones 10 acres. It can, and will probably, travel around the surrounding areas too. Did you know that pesticides can and do travel 25km through the air? I have 40 acres myself, and do not harvest any of the bugs, even though I know that the closest farmer/s using pesticides are 6km away.

On the note of meal and superworms. Mealworms have a thicker exoskeleton than superworms, and therefore would carry more of that chitin(sp?), and have less space in their boddies to carry nutritious fibers/foods. Superworms are also available in all sizes mealworms come in, they just arent commonly provided in those sizes.

Also, back on the note of wildcaught insects. As stated by Meow, who would want to take the risk of killing their cham, or any other herp? If you lost a herp due to pesticides on some wildcaught bugs, how would you feel?

C.

[dank7oo]

*sits and thinks ... thinks .. thinks .. *

Jason

[panther_dude]

MOST PERSTISIDES USED TODAY ARE SAFE FOR ANIMALS THAT ARE CONSUMING THE BUGS THAT ORIGINALLY EAT THE PESTISIDE. tHEY STOPED USING DDT A LONG TIME AGO BECAUSE ALL THE BIRDS THAT WERE EATING THE INSECTS WERE DYING. mOST OF THE PESTRIDES USED TODAY BECOME DORMANT AFTER KILLING THE INSECTS. hOW THIS WORKS i HAVE NO IDEA. iF YOU STAY AWAY FROM FLYING INSECTS YOU SHOULD HAVE THE PROBLEME OF IT TRAVELING FOR KILOMETERS.

yOU ALL CAN DO AS YOU PLEASE OBVIOUSLY IM NOT GOING TO STOP YOU. BUT I MYSELF DO BELEAVE THAT WC INSECTS SHOULD BE A MAJOR PART OF MY CHAMELEONS DIET.

AS FOR THE OTHER COMMENT YOU SHOULD READ MORE CAREFULLY. i MAKE 14 BUCKS AN HOUR AT MY JOB HENCE WHY ITS NOT HARD TO BUY FEEDERS.

If you don't know what your feeding then all your doing is getting free food to avoid the cost of crickets and worms and if you can't afford those, you shouldnt own a lizard. IMO.

THIS IS THE STUPID COMMENT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

[meow_mix450]

Dude i dont know if your yelling or talking, so please stop using caps lock. On the other hand, i beleive that all pesticies are not aloud being used and thats all i said.

Quote:Panther_dude
If you don't know what your feeding then all your doing is getting free food to avoid the cost of crickets and worms and if you can't afford those, you shouldnt own a lizard. IMO.

THIS IS THE STUPID COMMENT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

That actually is not a stupid comment, if you cant feed you reptiles the right food then you shouldnt own a lizard. In any case it wouldnt be free food, you have to take your time to hunt these insects down. But stop using caps lok please

Meow

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Originally posted by meow_mix450
Dude i dont know if your yelling or talking, so please stop using caps lock. On the other hand, i beleive that all pesticies are not aloud being used and thats all i said.

Quote:Panther_dude
If you don't know what your feeding then all your doing is getting free food to avoid the cost of crickets and worms and if you can't afford those, you shouldnt own a lizard. IMO.

THIS IS THE STUPID COMMENT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

That actually is not a stupid comment, if you cant feed you reptiles the right food then you shouldnt own a lizard. In any case it wouldnt be free food, you have to take your time to hunt these insects down. But stop using caps lok please

Meow

Gotto agree!

Just to point out: Most Locusts can fly. So unless you go picking spiders, ants, or little beetles, it would be kind of hard to get something that doesnt fly. I have also seen grasshoppers fly from about 20ft behind me to about 50 ft away in front of me. It takes them about 10 seconds. If they traveled that 5 times in a day,(which would be easy considering the time it takes) they could definetly make it off my 40 acres, and 10 acres would take nothing. Just a couple points.

C.

BTW: that caps lock is kind of hard to read, and cant tell the expression you mean. Maybe you forgot to turn it off?:)

[Collide]

Im havent been reading all this but CAPS INDICATE YELLING LOOKS LIKE ANGRY TALK!

[meow_mix450]

lol it doess, thats what i thought:p

Meow

[panther_dude]

oh well my bad. Ya i just didnt really care bout the caps, but ill try and make sure they are off from now on. And it was a stupid comment because he was directing it at me saying I am only feeding wild caught because I cannot afford feeders.

But anyways

[meow_mix450]

ooooo, sorry i misunderstood.

Meow

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

panther_dude says : And it was a stupid comment because he was directing it at me saying I am only feeding wild caught because I cannot afford feeders.

Where did I ever direct anything at you? All I said was that I didn't agree with collecting wild insects and that ANYONE who can't afford feeder insects shouldn't have a lizard. Which I still believe is a reasonable statement.


Kyle~