Patternless Albino or Albino Patternless???

[DragnDrop]

Quick question.

Patternless albinos look like patternless with albino traits (not a spec of melanin). The colour is 'on steroids' bright. No mistaking them for plain patternless.

However, the same combo of genes could produce 'albino patternless'... which to me suggests an albino in physical appearance with patternless traits. I've never seen any albino that would look like it's got patternless traits, just patternless with albino traits. Is there such a thing as an 'albino with patternles traits' or are they programmed to look like the patternless with albino traits all the time? Confused?

Now on to part two of this 'quick question' ;) .... If Tremper albinos can darken, would that automatically imply that Tremper patternless albinos can go dull too?

[beth wallbank]

Good question Hilde. Never really thought of it to tell you the truth. I am curious to hear everyone's views too.

[Gregg M]

This is just a guess here..... LOL...... But if the leo is showing patternless traits isnt that the reason it is patternless??? I think you just said that to confuse people....LOL......

[dave68]

I don't get it either, it's the same genetic combo either way, so what's the question? Confusion?!

Dave

[DragnDrop]

Serious question, not a trick one at all.

Patternless as we know is devoid of pattern when adult, and not counting the tangellos being worked on, they're yellow. They have melanin, so they darken under certain conditions. Albinos have no melanin, but they have a pattern (let's forget the Trempers being T+ for now).
So if we combine the two traits - patternless and albino, we've always been getting geckos that look like patternless, but have no melanin. Why can't/don't we get some that look like albinos with some patternless trait of some sort? The trouble is, how would we know it's one of them? The only patternless traits that could really be passed on and still be patternless are the unbanded tail and the yellow colour. I'm envisioning possibly a banded/patterned albino with tons of yellow and maybe non-banded tail. Or some other configuration that is distincly albino but yet not quite ... something fishy about it to make you look twice, the same way seeing a typical patternless albino makes you look twice at that 'gorgeous patternless'.

Does that clarify it any? Why, when combining a patterned and an unpatterned trait do we always seem to end up with the same looking gecko? Wouldn't it make sense to think possibly the albino could be the visually dominant trait once in a while? Maybe some of the ones we're passing off as albino het for patternless are really the 'other version' of patternless albino, a homo of both traits, but we don't recognize it because the appearance is so similar to a regular albino?

[lifeline]

I have no idea. I have bred a few Tremper Patternless Albino's this year. I think though some homo traits are dominate over others and this is why they look like patternless albino's and not albino patternless. just my guess though



http://leopardgecko.ca/image.php?Id=16


thanks mike and cheryl
Leopardgecko.ca

[Gregg M]

That is because you can not get alittle bit of a recessive trait...... What exactly do you think some of a patternless trait would be???? It cant happen.... It is either all or nothing...... A patternless albino is an albino patternless..... Some recessive genes are not compatible at all...... Can you get a blizzard/patternless or a tremper/las vegas???? All you can get from those crosses are hets and if you breed those hets you can only get those recessive traits not a visible combo of them in a single animal......

[Slannesh]

Isn't a Blizzard Patternless a Bannana Blizzard?

[Gregg M]

No, that mix does not make banana blizzards.....

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Gregg M
No, that mix does not make banana blizzards.....

Check out BlizzardLizard. com's description of a banana blizzard (http://www.blizzardlizard.com/index1.asp?request=images&img=banana)



"This gecko is the result of a cross between the Blizzard Lizard and a Patternless Leucistic."

It starts with blizard and patternless crosses, though you do have to take those double hets to get the bananas, but it is 'technically' a blizzard patternless.

[Gregg M]

You can get the same result by using high yellow or SH leos too......

[DragnDrop]

That would not be an 'official' banana blizzard. You'd be producing yellow blizzards, but not banana blizzards by accepted definition. Yellow blizzards happen on their own, very few are white, the majority around now are yellow to some extent. But banana blizzards are patternless blizzards or blizzard patternless, not just 'yellow blizzards'. If I were to buy a banana blizzard, I'd want it to be a double homo blizzard and patternless. If I found out it was just an imitation made by crossing a blizzard with some yellow coloured leo, I'd raise the roof and then some.

[DragnDrop]

There's a reason for my original question. It's too late now to do anything about it too.
One of the albino looking offspring from my PA project sparked that thought. The entire body was albino looking, pink and yellow bands, and bright red eyes. The yellow was very bright and the pink almost glowed. The only difference between it and the other albino het for patternless that hatched from these parents was the tail. It had no bands on it. Not one speck of pink, it was pure white. Picture an albino hatchling with a white tail like a patternless. Unfortunately that baby hatched very weak and died after 9 days though I tried everything I could. I actually didn't think it was any different than the other albino het Ps, it was only when I took one last look before burying it that it dawned on me --- the tail is different. Even though the baby hatched on schedule, it might have still been 'premature' which could explain the lack of bands on the tail, but the body bands were developed very clearly, so the tail should have had time to come up with a few of it's own. That led to thinking it might be the patternless influence on the tail. Which progressed to maybe it's an albino patternless, the reversed patternless albino version of my goal?

Anyone know of an albino, either plain or het for something that didn't have a banded tail? I don't have any others like that one, all the albinos and albino het patternless have banded tails. But it was enough to get me thinking. Either there was something wrong with him to hatch weak and die early, or maybe the genetic combination of albino and patternless (genotype) that's visually albino (phenotype) might be 'fatal' in the long run? Why not? It's the going theory on why double homo Tremper/Rainwater doesn't seem to happen, so there's a possibility albino looking PAs can't happen or survive?
I just wish I'd checked closer when investigating dead-in-shell embryos from the PA project. There were a fair number of them albino, but I never checked the tails.