Everything sucks and i can prove it [Archive]

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 12:28 AM

sup all. well my male BP just ate for the second consecutive time. Although it is the third time i have tried feeding him, the first time i was really clueless, and tried feeding him the first day i got him. Then i read about the two week acclimation period. So two weeks later, tried feeding him a fresh killed gerbil... and he ate it with the quickness. So, a week later (tonight) i just tried feeding him again, a fresh killed gerbil. he ate it fast, im telling ya... hes eating these gerbils like big mac's. so im going to stick with the gerbils, because honestly the price thing is not a big deal. and its not like the gerbil is doing any kind of physical harm to the snake , and i can pamper my baby if i so desire =) . im sure rats are an excellent food source to those of you who need lots of prey to feed your.... lots of snakes.... ? but i think gerbils are fine too. i probably will start trying to feed him two fresh killed gerbils in a row in one weeks time. i hope i dont get flamed here =x .... cause honestly, ive folled every piece of advice that has been given to me since i joined the site... other than putting him on rats... and sticking him in a rubbermaid. HOWEVER, over the summer i am going to be building him a nice enclosure to get him out of the aquarium, because yes im just having too much problems with temps, humidity and airflow in the aquarium. i got off subject... my bad... take it easy all.

elevation24

06-17-04, 02:13 AM

Geez, what's up with your wacky thread titles?

Well, anyway, good luck to you and it's great to see that you make fairly decent money wherein you can afford to feed your ball gerbils. Hell I can't even get them without driving 2 hours out of my way since they are illegal here in California :D Lucky for me, the one time I needed them (to get 6 WC's eating), when I drove up to Reno I just so happened to unknowingly stumble across a sale -- all of the gerbils (babies & adults) were I believe $2.99 each, so I bought all of them since I was expecting to spend $7.00+ each. I still have 2 of the damn things and I can't get rid of them, so I guess they are pets now.

Anyway, I hope you never have to switch him from gerbils to rats or mice :( Because you'll be pulling your hair out.

sapphire_moon

06-17-04, 05:29 AM

Gerbils suck.
If you want to take care of your snake properly get it on rats.

If you can't get his temps stable then you really didn't take any advice besides the 2 wk acclimation period. And maybe (not sure) getting a digitial thermometer.
So the snake has to suffer because you can't get the temps right because you refuse to put him in a rubbermaid, and refuse to feed him right.

And here's a little info to, when he goes off feed (and he will, be it tomorrow or 5 yrs down the road) and you are spending anywhere from 12-24$ a WEEK (thats anywhere from 2-4 gerbils)on gerbils, and he's not eating them, You might as well be throwing your money out the window!
You must got money. Because even the big breeders on here that make $5,000 dollars off one snake don't use gerbils!

And god I hope your not using live, because gerbils are freakin viscious!

Just my opinions :)

marisa

06-17-04, 01:12 PM

Sapphire Moon what do you mean by this>

"If you want to take care of your snake properly get it on rats"

People advising against gerbils is because of cost factor. Not snake health. In the wild balls feed on gerbil type rodents among other things...... Gerbils also get quite large, much larger than mice. I personally would get it rats, but it will NOT harm his snake to eat gerbils his entire life and it doesn't mean he is not caring for it properly.

Marisa

Matt_K

06-17-04, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by sapphire_moon
Gerbils suck.
If you want to take care of your snake properly get it on rats.

I'm not sure how feeding strictly gerbils is not taking care of your snake properly.. Is there any study that shows that rats are more nutritious then Gerbils? What about all the people that start their snakes on Rats and then get them on Rabbits? (yes, people do it with BPs too) are they mistreating their animals too??

Originally posted by sapphire_moon
And here's a little info to, when he goes off feed (and he will, be it tomorrow or 5 yrs down the road) and you are spending anywhere from 12-24$ a WEEK (thats anywhere from 2-4 gerbils)on gerbils, and he's not eating them, You might as well be throwing your money out the window!

Are you saying that ALL Ball Pythons go off feed?? Cause if you are, you should tell some of my snakes that.. I know many people who have kept balls for years, that have had some go off feed, but a lot that never have... Rather then discouraging 'Freakonaleash' and putting down his husbandry maybe you could give him some help, let him know what has worked for you..

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 01:23 PM

THANK YOU MARISSA =) /hugs , the cost factor is not a big deal, now i dont know how much gerbils cost in ottawa kansas... or hell... anywhere else in the world. but here in collinsville illinois (15 minutes from st louis mo) , i can get a nice fat gerbil for 2.99 .... granted, they ARE smaller than rats and are not a huge meal... which is exactly why we are going to try feeding it two gerbils next week. so we decided to pamper our snake a little... i mean thats ok right? just so you know sapphire, i did TRY to give him a fresh killed rat... he showed absolutely no interest. and you already know im not gonna rub no dead bodies together, i dont even touch the gerbils, i use roach clips (or hemostets) it is not my fault that the snake is already a few years old, but that i just got it, and the previous owner fed it fresh killed gerbils. this is just what THIS particular snake eats.

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 01:25 PM

Elevation, my wacky thread titles reflect how im feeling at that particular moment. i am a huge music/movie buff. Everything sucks and i can prove it is a lyric from slipknots song "i am hated" which is exactly how i felt as i was typing it because i had been snapped on by several of the "higher ups" of the forum if you know what i mean =)~ . my names pit...... think samuel L jackson

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 01:30 PM

thank you Matt K . i mean i really am doing everything i can for the snake, and im being pissed on by all these people and it IS discouraging. i took him to the vet (i have a vet appointment for him once a MONTH), im going to be building him a new enclosure to get him out of the aquarium ( im just not willing to use a rubbermaid), i handle him as often as i was told to.... i mean i think im doing good. and sapphire is over here telling me im "slowly murdering" my snake... COME ON!!!! thats bs. just cause im not doing it "your way". is there a way to ignore peeps? cause i would really rather prefer you and mykee just cant read my inquiries / replies anymore. cause frankly im tired of being put down for doing everything in my power to give the snake a happy life !!!! ARGHHHH, im gonna go play some vice city

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 01:38 PM

i keep feeling the need to retort... sapphire, i have two, count em two, one two , uno dos, I, II, digi thermometers in my snake aquarium... each one measures inside/outside temp (outside being the probe) and humidity. I have both digi's on the inside of the aquarium up on the wall, with the probes going underneath the newspaper under the cool side hide box, and the hot side hide box. during the two week acclimation period, i had the thermo's moved higher up in the aquarium, so i could clearly see the readings through the screen top. for two weeks, i DID NOT open or mess with the aquarium AT ALL, other than to change out the water. and allthough the temps are for sure NOT stable, they are atleast in the safety range (hot side 90-97 , cool side 80-85) with a humidity of ATLEAST 65 percent. i feel like im doing a fairly good job. and for how much you guys get on me for feeding gerbils... remember... this is my ONLY snake, i dont breed, or collect or anything like that. so to throw 6 bucks a week down on gerbils (two gerbils, 2.99 a piece), is really not that big a deal ok? i could probably find 6 bucks a week in my washer/dryer. so quit trying to save me $$ and start trying to give constructive replies. not just to me either.

marisa

06-17-04, 01:43 PM

The whole point is this.

If you are housing your ball with stable heat and humidity. The ball is eating FT gerbils...then fine. Keep feeding it gerbils. The reason people bring it up is because for some, gerbils are expensive and balls can get HOOKED on them. But you have only one snake, so it should be quite easy for you to continue with FT gerbils. Don't mess around with live gerbils PERIOD. Gerbils are nasty and can give a nasty injury. Another tip....buy some live gerbils and feed em. Gerbils can become QUITE large with time. Not as big as rats, but two giant gerbils makes a good meal for any size ball. I have had some very large gerbils in my house. It just takes time for the to reach that size. I'd grab a few live ones and feed 'em up, then whack them and freeze for future use. I'd also like to add, if you DO want to get it on rats, do so now. Because it will be harder later.

As for my reply to Sapphire Moon....you are a very negative person. You always point out faults that are not even faults in all cases. We are all learning, YOU included. You do not know everything and telling someone he is not keeping it properly because he decides on gerbils is just silly. It was immature and non-factual. People do not feed gerbils becaues of the cost and time it takes to get them to proper size, as well as ball pythons getting hooked on them. NOT health reasons the way your post suggested. If he has one snake and wants to commit to feeding FT gerbils.....so what? Get over yourself.

Good luck with your snake. I hope you continue proper care.

Marisa

Vengeance

06-17-04, 01:43 PM

I think Saphire and Mikey are getting frustrated because besides the fact that you decided not to listen to their good advice, which is your choice and personnaly I couldn't care what you do, but your making it out like you've made every effort to either switch to rats when you haven't even had the python for more then a month.

Now is there anything wrong with feeding gerbils, hell if I know, I've heard they can be more fatty and the cost isn't my idea of a cost effective food item but hey if you wanna spend the money go ahead. But to say that you've tried pre killed rats and it just won't work is a lie. Reading through all your posts your on your 3rd feeding meaning that it's been aprox 5 weeks and you only attempt at feeding a rat was on the first day you got you python which was not a good day to try due to the fact your python was most likely very stressed. But you made the decision that when after a appropriate amount of ajustment time to try and feed, you went with gerbils. Mabye if instead of trying a gerbil you had of tried rats your ball python would be on rats and this whole thread would be mute. But you made your choice and again you choice to make, but understand rats are a much better source of food for other reasons besides nutrition. Being able to feed one large prey item instead of multiple prey items is supposed to be better, rats are more cost effective, and also much more readlity avilable.

But again do what you want, it's your Ball python and at the end of the day we can also only suggest what has worked for us and worked for other people in our experiance, but you'll still do what you want to do.

elevation24

06-17-04, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Freakonaleash
i could probably find 6 bucks a week in my washer/dryer.

Wouldn't that most likely have come out of your pocket anyway? :D

marisa

06-17-04, 01:46 PM

Well this is true:

"making it out like you've made every effort to either switch to rats when you haven't even had the python for more then a month. "

Regardless of that though, I stick by my posts. He is not "not keeping it properly" if he decideds never to introduce another rat. And that's how her post came off. There is NO need for that.

Marisa

Vengeance

06-17-04, 01:58 PM

I never said that he wasn't not keeping it properly, all I said was that by stateing that he has made every attempt to switch over to rats isn't true. I have no idea if gerbils are better or rats are better. But like I said rats are a much more avilable food source, and in the long run freak would have a much easier time finding adult rats then he will finding adult gerbils. But again that's his choice, and I'm not saying he is doing anything wrong, but in my personal opinion rats would be the better choice in the long run because of avaliablity.

marisa

06-17-04, 02:14 PM

Venegeance- I know you didn't say that. I was refering to Sapphire Moons end all be all advice in her first reply to him, it was non-factual and pointless.

I agree with you that rats would be better, but for who? Us who have 15 snakes or more? lol. It's easy and cheap to feed ONE snake whatever you wish as long as its a rodent. There are no tests that show what nutritional needs snakes have so even comments about gerbils being this that and the other don't work.

In the end, my point was why say "gerbils suck" and "you arent keeping him properly unless he eats rats" when those comments are not factual, and pointless.

Marisa

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 02:34 PM

i completely understand where you are coming from vengeance. gerbils are just as readily available in my area anyways... i probably have 100 pet stores within an hours drive of me. and i didnt say i tried everything to switch him to rats. i just happen to know that the previous owner of the snake fed freshly killed gerbils to him. all i did with the rat was kill it, and set it in the tank. he showed no interest at all (and this was not the first day, it was two weeks later, i tried feeding a dead rat first, THEN i put in the fresh killed gerbil that he ate no problem)... he flicked his tongue at it and left it alone. but when the rat was replaced with a gerbil... like i said, he just ate it right up. so really as far as gerbils go , the availability is high around here, and the cost is im assuming low... some people here talk about gerbils like theyre worth theyre weight in gold... or chronic. what i have here seems to be working, so thats just what im sticking with. and thats a good idea marissa... buying a few gerbils and keeping them to fatten em up, im sure i could feed a gerbil better then the pet stores do.
and vengeance you have to understand where im coming from as far as being pissed at sapphire and mykee.. i have chosen to decline two of theyre tips (feed rats, and house in tupperwares) because i dont think that will work for me... i went on and on and on in my last post or two about alllll the tips i have gotten from peeps here that i did follow to the T. but i say no im gonna continue feeding gerbils, and im going to have a nice looking aquarium set up rather than a tupperware... and suddenly im being attacked for "slowly murdering" my snake. this is ridiculous, this isnt what i came to this website for. if i were slowly murdering my snake... my veterinarian would tell me so....
anyways, i feel like im doing all that i can do to take care of the snake and thats all that should be asked of me. just because im not doing it the "preferred way" doesnt mean its wrong. thanks for the support Matt K and Marissa, and thank you for your understanding Vengeance. Its nice knowing not everyone thinks im doing this completely *** backwards

dave68

06-17-04, 02:52 PM

Well said freak, I'm behind you 100%. Keep up the good work!
As for the negatives,didn't your mothers ever tell you "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!"

Dave

dave68

06-17-04, 02:55 PM

what's up with this? post not moving!

Cake

06-17-04, 03:26 PM

Im behind you too Freak, as long as your BP is getting enough food and is eating regularily then good for you. When it takes 2 gerbils to fill his belly and he will eat 2 then where is the problem?

marisa

06-17-04, 03:35 PM

Like I said, my Gerbils get LARGE over time. I wish I had a proper scale for weighing them so I could tell you in grams how big they can be....anyways....but yes get some live ones from the pet store for future use, feed them over a few months and fatten them up. Use a good high qaulity diet. What they eat, your snake eats.

I myself HATE aquariums. Will it murder your snake? No not unless you yourself are a total idiot. :P If the humidity and temps aren't correct, then yes you'll have issues for sure....as tanks suck for keeping in heat, giving proper airflow and holding humidity...... I prefer rubbermaid or custom enclosures for all snakes humidity loving or not. I suggest building the custom you spoke of a.s.a.p. and you're ball will thank you. You will love it too because suddenly your work is cut in half when it comes to heating and keeping up moisture.

Marisa

da_illest

06-17-04, 03:40 PM

i personally still think it should be on rats mainly because, to me, their cheaper, more readily available, and when and if freak decidedes to sell his snake due to un-known reasons, the new owner will have one hell of a time with it... if you plan on keeping the snake freak, DO NOT FEED ANYTHING LIVE bigger then a pinkie or fuzzy unless RESTRAINED, if you do (like you did with the rat) you shouldn't own a frikken pet snake man... the thing is in your care which means your responsible... kill the gerbil first at least... i've read about you feeding live rats and then chilling there while the thing bit your snake... i've noticed with bp's that once scared, like your snake was in the corner, it takes them a long time to get their security back up... they are very timid snakes... so long as your feeding dead i think it's alright, it's your pocket in the end... one day though, when your snake is big, and your not doing financially well (it happens to all of us), it's going to hurt you real bad to buy a few gerbils a week to feed... you should get a gerbil as a pet, and scent dead rats.... in which case, if your snake goes on a hunger strike for too long, throw in the gerbil....

dave68

06-17-04, 03:47 PM

Hey da illest you should re check that post as it was not Freak who was feeding live rats, he only posted a reply to that said post.

Dave

sapphire_moon

06-17-04, 06:22 PM

Ok let me explain a few things.

I said "slowly killing" because he had stated that he was STILL having trouble getting his temps right, and the snake was suffering because of it (and i was in a bad mood as well)

And because he did make it very clear that he is not (was not) willing to scent rats, and made it seem like he had tried every method available to switch.

Also because before he even CAME to this forum (which I told him of) I talked to him on yahoo messenger. Telling him everything I myself was told was proper when I started coming to this forum (temps, hudmidity, digi thermometer, substrate, how to watch for mites, acclimation period, *he had just gotten the snake*just stuff like that) and he though I think listened, was rude, and persistent that he would do things his way unless he changed his mind.

So, I am so sorry to have caused any one any un-nesessary stress.

And I thought gerbils were high in fat?

And they may eat gerbil like creature in the wild, but they aren't in the wild now are they?

marisa

06-17-04, 07:25 PM

Sapphire moon you are SUCH a "know it all". Its laughable. Most of your posts are lovely and a good addition here. Others come out of the blue and basically rip people apart. How many snakes do you even own? 5? That gives you enough experience to say feeding gerbils is not keeping a snake properly? We are ALL learning. All of us.

"And they may eat gerbil like creature in the wild, but they aren't in the wild now are they"

DID ANYONE SAY ANYTHING about this? I mention they eat a similar prey in the wild. I did NOT say you need to recreate nature in your home. So please, spare me your pathetic attempts at making your know it all attitude look better.

Gerbils are high in fat eh? So please so me the link to a python regius study showing what they need nutrionally. Thanks. Guess what? There isn't one. So all the "Rats are better" "gerbils suck" arguements are dead in the water until these dietary studies are complete.

I said it five times before and I'll say it again, your post was pointless and did nothing but give unfactual information about gerbils. You claim he was not keeping it properly because he feeds it gerbils. You have NO proof to back that up, and your rambling reply had nothing to do with the fact it is NOT true that he is hurting or not caring properly for his snake by feeding gerbils.

Your personal experiences with him have NOTHING to do with him feeding his ball gerbils. Nothing. They are FT. Why do you even care if he wants to spend more? It's not your business if he can afford it or not. He understands its impossible to switch them in some cases, and knows they can be costly. He explained that CLEARLY in his first post.

You really need to stop thinking you are an expert. You have even been in forums for species you do not own telling people what they should and should not do. How about relax, enjoy your herps and if you have something to say about your personal experiences, share it. Plain and simple. We don't need a husbandry police force on ssnakess.com jumping on people left right and center for no reason, especially if what that "forum police" says is backed up with no facts.

Marisa

Freakonaleash

06-17-04, 11:26 PM

Da illest, its all good man, you just mistook one of my posts for someone elses. But no i have never put any kind of rodent in my tank that was still alive (to be 100 percent accurate, i have never let a live rodent LOOSE in the tank, i kind of dangle them by the tail to get the snake to come out, then when he comes out i go kill the rodent) . i do have that much sense. and sapphire, yes you did help me out a LOT in the "beginning" (the whole snake thing was a real spur of the moment kind of thing, but that isnt to say im not 100 percent committed to him), and yes i would have been lost without your guidance, i didnt deserve half the things you and whats his face said about my caring for the snake. just because it isnt how you do it. he seems happy, healthy, and is very very well tempered. so this just makes me think im doing a good job and encourages me to keep doing what i am doing.
but, i have put ventilation holes in the aquarium for air circulation, taken out the fir bark and used newspaper, gotten the warm side to stick between 90-97 , cool side 80-85, and the humidity is at 65% , so really i think he has near perfect conditions /shrug.

just to clear this up, i did not mean to START a fight with anybody, at all. and i do appreciate all the help/advice i have been given since i joined this forum. some people just arent very kind with it... its either theyre way, or the snakes gonna die it seems like... and this isnt true. i am doing everything possible to take excellent care of my snake (in the 1 month 1 week i have had him i have taken him to the vet twice) without having to do anything overly gross (i.e. rubbing dead rodents against other dead rodents) or anything overly ghetto (i.e. having a snake in a tupperware in my bedroom). i am a one-snake owner, so is it so bad that i want to have a nice looking set up? something i can be proud of when i show to my friends? if it works..(temps/humidity safe) why shouldnt i be able to? and my snake JUST LIKES GERBILS, its what he has been eating for YEARS so thats what im feeding it (very successfully so far i might add). i dont want to fight with anybody, i just want to be able to ask for advice and stuff without people saying, we gave you advice and you said to hell with it, cause thats not how it happened....

nita

06-18-04, 12:59 AM

Honestly unless there is a concern I wouldnt' be going to the vet every month, that might actually be stressfull.

On the availability of rats, well here it is a pain to get them. They are illegal in Alberta and yes you can order them but then you have to be able to pick them up at the airport so they dont' thaw out (a 45min - to 1hr drive for me in a family with only one vehical and we work opposite shifts), but every store carries gerbils, wich is why my snakes have eaten them. Mine also switch back to mice and if I can get them on rabbits I will do so too. My sis breeds rabbits and so do others I know and my daughters will soon again have 3 rabbits and the babies will be killed for snake food. As long as you have a steady available food source of rodents then feed it what you want, preferably dead.

sapphire_moon

06-18-04, 09:07 AM

actually, I don't know it all (which would be entirely impossible anyways since information is always chaning), and I never once said, "my way is the only way and you have to do it my way."

Though I do admit I was at points extremely forcefull/rude in some of my posts. And I am very sorry to all I was rude to. Although I have seen some of your posts "rip people apart" as well.

And your right, I usually am calm and try to be informative as possible from what I have learned from many of you here, and am still learning daily.

And I never SAID gerbils WERE high in fat, I was asking a question!

I THOUGHT they were high in fat, which was why I was so strongly set against it, and why I thought the snake was not properly being taken care of (that and the way I read a few posts of his I thought he was still having alot of problems with the temps.)

And yes I do go to other forums, and I do usually state that when I give information that it is always best to confirm what I have said with someone of more knowledge.

Just because I don't have a particular species doesn't mean that I haven't read up on them.