50 hoppers - one big chunk of frozen mouse meat... now what?

[DragnDrop]

I've spent about an hour searching this forum in case someone's already asked, but I can't find my 'problem' discussed. Maybe I'm using the wrong search words, so here goes.

I bough some hoppers on Sunday. The trouble is they are frozen into a solid chunk of mouse meat. I noticed they were all crunched at the bottom of the bag (vacuum sealed) when I bought them but it never dawned on me that they'd be impossible to separate.
Is there some trick to doing this? I've considered thawing them until I could separate them but then refreezing them seems risky, so I eliminated that option. There are a couple of them at the top of the pile that I could pull off, just their tails popped off but most of the hopper is intact.
Also, there is an awful lot of blood in the bag, something new for me. No other frozen pinkies or fuzzies I've bought so far had any blood seepage. Is this normal, or does this suggest that maybe they were thawed previously? If freezing weakens the cell structure, having them thaw out in the bag could explain the blood. They were vacuum sealed, so does that cut down on spoillage or should they be pitched in this case? When I got them they weren't frozen rock hard, but still 'crispy'. I kept them in a cooler all day wedged between 2 ice packs. They didn't seem any softer by the time I got home than when I got them.

I've still got a few days before feeding day, so there's time to get new ones if there's a chance these might be risky to feed.

Thanks :)

[HeatherRose]

I don't know if anything other than slight thawing would be an option for you, Hilde.

I've had this problem too but not with nearly such a large amount of mice. My suggestion would be to wait until feeding day, then submerge the bag in hot water for a short period of time. This should loosen the mice on the outside of the 'clump', which you can remove and further thaw and feed while freezing the remaining clump.

I hope someone else can help with the blood seepage question...

[sapphire_moon]

a small flat screw driver (the minus one, lol) a hammer, and patience. :)

Not sure on the blood seepage. I personally would take them back, I would think that they were just thrown in, and vaccum sealed alive! (my opinion only, may not be true!)

[mykee]

Well, I've never encountered this problem but the blood seepage may be from when they were killed, they may have been whacked, and as they died, their noses bled, and were then thrown in the bag and vac. sealed, blood and all. Happens to my rats occasionally, that I wouldn't worry about. Why not try what I do when I buy a bag of ice for my cooler in the summer, the bag of ice cubes are usually molded together into one big ball, so I drop it on the bag on the ground with minimal force and voila! Another suggestion would be to use a screwdriver, or butter knife, x-acto blade, etc. and try your darndest to seperate them gently so as not to have half-mice all over the place. Good luck, curious to hear what others have to say.

[snakehunter]

This happens to me too, some times ill buy a bunch of mice and theyre all stuck to each other. When i need a mouse, i pick the one i want, and wiggle it back and forth while holding the chunk o mouse, after a little work they will pop off. some times w/o tails tho.

[Will]

I do this with burgers all the time. Put them in a bag and toss 'em on concrete, like mykee suggested. You may have some minor tail/limb breakage, but that should work better than thawing and re-freezing. The snakes probably won't care...

[DragnDrop]

Thanks for the suggestions.
I've taken another look at them, but don't think that prying them apart will work very well. They're not 'rounded' bodies stuck together, most of them are flattened, almost like pancakes. The few that were on the outside edges could be removed but the majority of them look like they've been sat on, flat and stuck together in an indistinguishable mass of fur. I tried wiggling one of the flattened ones to remove it and it broke apart (gross gross grooossss :eek: ) There's no way I can pry one out of there unless they're defrosted. It seems a bit too risky to refreeze them afterwards. I might just end up having to pitch them and get others. This time I'll make sure they're not clumped together by not getting the prepackaged ones.

[Linds]

I would just let them thaw just enough to be pried apart. Assuming they were sealed and frozen whlie they were still fresh, this should present no problems. They will still be very much frozen at the point they have thawed enough to be seperated with a bit of work (butter knife or any similar object should work).

[Pixie]

If they are thawed only long enough to separate them and then refrozen, I can't see that it would be a problem.

They won't have been at a temperature to grow bacteria for long enough as long as they are refrozen immediately after sepoarated.

The results when thawing the second time around will be a mouse that's a bit mushier.

I've had to do this myself on a few occasions and never had a problem with my refrozen food. My snakes didn't react any differently to them either.

Pixie

[Big Mike]

Maybe look at getting a new mouse supplier. I have been very impressed with the last batch of mice that I bought. They came vac-sealed in groups of 20 & 25...all nicely arranged on a Styrofoam tray like how you would buy a steak. They are all dry and are not stuck together at all. The price was comparable with any other supplier I have seen.

[Lisa]

like linds suggest, a slight thawing and then unthawing (freezing)... i'd use warm water to do the thawing...

[snakemanward]

Hi there it seems you have quite a delema on your hands. It sounds like you had bought hopper mice that have completely thawed and then have been refrozen. Frozen rodents that have been killed by co2 or even been wacked will sometimes seep blood after being thawed out, but not usually until they have been more than 3/4 thawed out.
I would suggest chucking them, why take the risk and give your reptiles food poisoning. Vacuume packaging is the best way of packaging and will preserve your rodents long if the pack hasn't been opened , but the only thing is that you have to use everything up in one shot or somehow re vacume pack them yourself.cause once you've opened them then you have let air in and have shortened their shelf life.
Just curious who did you buy them from?
Was it *****?
Maybe next time if you want e-mail me and we can set up an order for the next show. Just you let you know all my rodents that are of that size or bigger are packaged military style and or frozen on trays and then packaged so they don't become one frozen mass of meat.

thanks
Robert Ward
Robert Ward Broker

[thunder]

blood seepage is normal if they were packaged alive, happens all the time. however, it could also happen if they were allowed to thaw and then were refrozen, and there's no way to tell how long they could hav been left out. if u dont trust your supplier to be completely honest with you about this, return them. if u think hes an honest guy who knows what he's doing, dont sweat it. as for separating them, i use pliers.

[annieb_mice]

I would highly recommend finding youself another rodent supplier! Vacuum sealing keeps the rodents "fresh" for between 2 - 3 years as long as the seal is not broken. With the exception of supplying breeders, I prefer to seal only 10 or 20 laid out flat in a bag, then vacuum seal them. I have never had a problem of the rodents sticking together. You mentioned the rodents were all flattened and all at the bottom of the bag in a big lump. Here's my guess... sounds like the mice were "pre-frozen" stacked in trays laid upon each other, so the mice in the bottom trays were flattened. They were then put into a bag and sealed, but, for whatever reason, the bag came unsealed and the rodents thawed and then became refrozen.
However it happened, if that were my order, I would immediately return it and find another supplier. There is an excellent feeder breeder in Alberta called Canadian Mouseman, and there may be other breeders in your area. I would recommend finding someone who packs their rodents in smaller quantities to maintain freshness and quality.
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

[Corey Woods]

Sounds like your mice came from *****.

Forget the rest............buy from the best!!

Corey Woods
Canadian Rodent Pro East

[Cruciform]

Anyone care to spell out the *****?

[Corey Woods]

It was sensored.................the moderators love to sensor my posts...............I guess they have nothing better to do with their time.

Corey Woods

[HeatherRose]

I really doubt that the mods have nothing better to do than follow you around and censor your posts...They left the shameless plug alone, after all.

If the ***'s were a company name, then it was censored for a reason. The site doesn't need a lawsuit. Its the same as putting down a petstore for their husbandry.

Is it so hard to not be difficult and not give the mods such a hard time for doing their job?

[DragnDrop]

It's nothing personal here, Corey. I'd have sent you a PM explaining it but your inbox is full.

I removed the name since it's site policy not to allow actual names in relation to negative feedback or simialr posts. Just to prevent problems, I changed the business name to asterisks.

[DragnDrop]

Thanks for all the input about the hoppers. After one more look at the 'bloody mess' I noticed that some were even popping open. I'm not too anxious to have mouse guts all over the snake enclosure. And I really don't want to risk any food poisoning. I'm a newbie at snakes, so I prefer not to risk situations that will create unneeded problems.

So.... I chopped off about 5 or 6 hoppers worth from the clump, thawed them and fed them to the friendly neighbourhood skunk who lives under my garden shed. She's got a family to feed, so she probably appreciated it. When I think of some of the things I've seen her eat, those mice were a gourmet meal.
Over the next couple of weeks I'll feed them off to her. Maybe then she'll like me enough to stop spraying my flower beds. :)

[Scales Zoo]

I was gonna suggest donating any you couldn't save to someone with a monitor collection, but the skunk is just as worthy a cause. Baby skunks are very cute, and can be tame - so can the mother, espeially if you are feeding them, they can start to act like cats.

We once took a headless chicken, that was donated to the zoo from a local farmer, out to a mother fox we knew of. It then occured to me, that if farmers saw a fox den with chicken feathers, they may poison the fox thinking it had been preying on chickens. So, there I was, out cleaning up chicken feathers after the fox was done with it.

Yes, I kind of sidetracked.

Ryan

[annieb_mice]

LOL!! I've done stuff like that, Ryan! I rent a house on a chicken farm so I don't DARE do anything like that while I'm here. There's a family of skunks that lives in the barn across from me and the babies are OH SO CUTE!! Little bundles of black and white fur with bright beady eyes! I try to make sure they aren't around when I let the dogs out at night... but I think they might actually be "friends" with the dogs! LOL! I saw the mom walk about 5 feet away from one of my dogs, who just watched her walk past like it was a regular occurance. Mom skunk glanced at the dog when she walked past but didn't seem to be hurrying. I'm just thankful that the dogs have never been sprayed!
Anyways... sorry... went off topic there... LOL!
BTW... I agree... baby skunks are WELL worth the cause! I wouldn't suggest feeding any of the mice to your reptiles... they don't sound all that healthy. :P
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~