cranky rat

[knoerr3232]

Ok, as some of you know, I gave up trying f/t prey, as nothing worked. I have been using live mice. Everyone told me the pros and cons on live rats and that mice actually could cause more danger than a rat. I tried my first rat today and this is what happened....my snake struck within minutes, the rat squealed and fought a bit, my snake let go and wouldnt go near it again. He would curl up in the corner and flinch when the rat neared him. That stupid rat kept creeping up to him and biting him!! (The mice I used never acted like that). I took him out and Im taking the rat back....I know all the nutrition stuff....under- feeding stuff...money factor...etc...BUT I will never try a rat again. I will continue to use numorous mice as opposed to one rat.....Has this happened to anyone? Im sooooooo pissed. Is this normal behavior for a rat or did I get a grumpy one?

[mykee]

That's just irresponsible, you mean to say you actually WATCHED the rat bite your snake and you just sat there picking your nose?!!! IF the snake attempted to kill the rat at all, he was interested, so try f/t rats. However, after all that, good luck if your ball EVER eats anything you offer him now. Holy smokes!! I could understand this from a 12 year old who lives in a bubble, but common sense dude!..........

[knoerr3232]

That stupid rat kept creeping up to him and biting him!! (The mice I used never acted like that

I should have worded better.........as SOON as I seen him nipping at my snake, I got the rat out of there...and yes, mykee, common sense tells me that he was interested in the rat if he struck him...and no, mykee, I didnt sit there and pick my nose...And, if you would have read the beginning, I said that I tried f/t prey and my snake will not touch them. So after insulting me and implying I have no common sense...you didnt even answer my questions, ...AND, by the way, my snake did eat dinner tonight even after I so cruelly neglected and mistreated him like a 12 year old......Get a grip, DUDE...we are all here to help AND learn.

[Nicky]

Who told you mice can be more dangerous than rats because that pure bs. I had a friend back in calgary that lost her full grown ball python to a live rat (i was only 11 so i didn;t know you couldn;t feed live or i would of told her). I also know that someone on this site(I'm pretty sure it was this one) a few years back posted a pic of her mauled bp that died from a rat i think i still have the pic not sure i'd have to check either way good luck in the future
kayla

[smeagel]

you shouldn't have left your bp alone with the rat, if you ever feed live, which you shouldn't, you absolutly need to stay and watch to make sure the rat doesn't do anything to your snake, you should have taked it out as soon as your snake retreated to the corner, not left it in to see what happens. i hope you have beter luck in the future.

[mykee]

"That stupid rat kept creeping up to him and biting him!!!"

KEPT. Continued to. That means more than once. Say what you mean.

"He would curl up in the corner and flinch when the rat neared him."

Sorry, but common sense would hopefully dictate that it is human nature that when something cowers in a corner and fliches, it means that it is scared. No?

"This is my first snake but I did a LOT of research before and after I got him..."

This is commendable, but if you read as much as you say, you would know that pet store snakes for the most part are imported (wild caught) and shipped here from Africa. These snakes are notorious for being terrible eaters, and it seems you have one. Research, aside from finding out what temps to keep a snake at and all that hooplah, also means researching the actual snake you're interested in, and it's lineage. Maybe a ball python is not the snake for you?

[mykee]

As I responded in a different thread started by you to this same question; if you're going to feed live, you feed restrained. Not free-range. There are some circumstances where feeding live is an alternative or an only option. I personally feed many of my balls live, BUT I do it responsibly. I have fed over 600 live rats to my balls over the years, and not ONCE have I have any incident.

[knoerr3232]

The rat was nippy but, I got him out of there quick, fortunately there is not a mark on my bp. Like I said, it was my first attempt with a rat and as much reading as one can do, a lot of knowledge is through experience. I didnt restrain the rat but I NEVER once walked away from the cage. This all happened within 3-4 minutes.....Although I cant remember who told me mice are more apt to do more damage, it was someone from this site. Thank you Nicky and Smeagel for the advice and support...its nicer to get constructive criticism rather than be insulted and made to feel like an ***. :)

[Artemis]

grrrr. you really get to me.. maybe if yo wouldnt act like an *** then people wouldnt treat you like one.

Did I hear correctly that the snake actually STRUCK the rats, and you plan to take the rat BACK? Its not the RATS fault that all this happened, so perhaps you might want to mention the rat has a few FANG HOLES in him when you take him back to the LPS.

If i was the rat, I might be a bit "cranky" too if i got thwacked by the BP's teeth.

Pespective, kiddo.... your still in dire need of it.

Artemis

[knoerr3232]

My bp doesnt have fangs, does yours? AND the rat is fine AND I was totally honest with the pet store. I appologize for posting this thread, I didnt do it to get attacked nor to argue. I loved this site to ask questions and learn and up until now, I THOUGHT the people were nice here up until now...apparently your right, Artemis...I am the ***...And that, I wont argue.

[mykee]

(*** Standing ovation for Artemis ***). Advice was given; if you're going to feed live, you RESTRAIN THE FOOD ITEM. If you choose not to listen, put your ball in danger, and then stage a hissy fit, in my opinion, you're on your own, and I truly feel sorry for your ball python.

[sapphire_moon]

BP's can go a year or MORE without eating. It's just who gives in first that looses (you gave in, you lose)

Mice (in my mind) are WAY more mean than rats. I have had ONE rat that was just plain mean.

ALL my mice like to charge me when I get into the cage. They bite and climb up their tails during transfers to attempt to bite.

Try feeding a SMALLER live rat, not mouse, it is worth it if you do it right.


(***agrees with Artemis as well***)

And yes, my snake has fangs (teeth) I sure as hell hope yours does.

[Freakonaleash]

ok knoerr, now im not one of these mid 30's single herpetologists sitting in they're apartments with temperature controlled rubbermaids and a freezer full of dead rodents, fondling themselves to "Anaconda" so this is by no means expert advice, but i will give you some advice of mine that has so far worked wonderfully. feed your ball python gerbils, they are very closely related to gerboas which are the ball pythons natural prey. a lot of people on the site yelled at me for not taking theyre advice as far as feeding goes, but hey, the whole fresh killed gerbil thing is working so why the hell not? just go to your pet store or something once a week, find the biggest fattest gerbil you can find, and buy it. I, just about 2 hours ago, successfully fed my ball python for the second time in a row. The first time i tried feeding him, i was ignorant, and tried feeding him the day i got him, two weeks later, i offered him a fresh killed gerbil, he ate it, one week later (tonight) i offered him a fresh killed gerbil, he ate it. it is true that the gerbils arent a real huge meal for a ball python, especially when they get older, as i could see absolutely NO bulge in his body from the rodent, which is why next week im going to try to feed him two gerbils. now i think the fastest , most painless way to kill a rodent, is to put it in a plastic bag, and maybe even put that bag inside another bag. Take it outside... start swinging it around... real fast... and then slam it down on the concrete. boom, your snakes meal is ready. i have yet to hear a single noise from a gerbil after impact... so this makes me think its the most humane way to kill your rodents. forget all that crazy co2 crap. some say this is messy... well i noticed maybe a little blood coming out the gerbils ear... but damn... i slammed it on the conrete at 50 mph so what can you expect... some people go so far as to split the rodents head open before feeding it to theyre snakes... this is what i call sadistic.
anyways... dont leave the site... these forums are an absolute treasure trove of information. i would be completely lost without the help ive received along the way. you may have to put up with some know-it-all's along the way... but you have to remember... thats why they are here... to help people like you and i who dont know it all =). you just gotta learn to take the good with the bad.
TRY GERBILS

[balakoth]

Some of these peoples responses are rediculous. Funny how a few of you managed to give constructive advice without attacking.. I applaud those.

I feed live, nor have I ever understood the "Rubbermade" phenom or the margarin tubs, cereal box hides and papertowel substrates...

I have tried F/T, I have tried Pre Killed. Im slowly working my BP towards a prekilled Rat.. If i hit the rat to hard, he seisures and dies, the BP proceeds to look at me and wait for her meal crawling all over the now dead rat ;)

If you are unsuccesful (After SEVERAL attempts) to feed F/T or PreKilled, at least give the rat a nice smack against the wall. It's not wether or not a Mice or a Rat is more aggressive, it is nature, the act of defense and an animal instinct. In short give your snake the upper hand in some way.

To follow up Freakonaleashes advice... im sorry but that is some pretty poor advice. Gerbils and Hamsters are some of the most bite prone rodents as many will tell you who keep them as pets... Secondly the amount of fur these animals have calls for a high risk of impact. Same for chicks and other "treat" food items. Stick to rats and save yourself a load of trouble in the future.


Mykee, Remind me to jump down your throat and call you a 12 year old in a bubble when you dont explain EXACTLY what you ment in your post.

Get real man and get out of YOUR bubble.

[balakoth]

Gah have to add one more thing..

"This is commendable, but if you read as much as you say, you would know that pet store snakes for the most part are imported (wild caught) and shipped here from Africa."

Ahhh yes.. the internet forums, a great source for DEFINITIVE non bias information..

[Freakonaleash]

how dangerous can an animal's natural prey be to it? i mean honestly... nature engineered them this way... mother wanted ball pythons to eat gerboas and gerbils... not rats =( . i also dont see any danger of the snake getting impacted from a gerbil... they are not that fuzzy.... no fuzzier than a rat =/ i think you all work for some kind of rat producing facility or something equally lame . but anyways... until my vet tells me to get the snake off of gerbils and starve it until it agrees to choke down a rat... i will continue with the gerbils

[mykee]

Balakoth, I anxiously await with bated breath your opportunity to impart any words of wisdom. I suppose however, I will be waiting a long time. When and if that times comes, I will consider the source, and pass you off. As for explaining what was "ment", it was very clear what was said. Care for a definition of backpedal?

[mykee]

Freak; Congratulations, after 9 minutes of owning a ball python, you've uncovered all the secrets and you are now officially an expert. Good luck to you.

[da_illest]

sigh.... this is rediculous... i think snakes shouldn't be sold to young kids... as a rule of thumb, i never feed anything live that's bigger then a pinkie or maybe a fuzzy (depending on size and all)... why not try *SCENTING* the F/T or prekilled rats with GERBILS? lol... try it, see what happens...

now, freakonaleash, nature engineered these snakes to kill these animals IN THE WILD! not in a small tank with no escape incase the snake decides not to eat or to just flee for no reason... i HATE when people compare certain things like this to the WILD... THEY ARE IN A SMALL ENCLOSURE! lol... in the wild, if a gerbil/rat puts up a serious fight or if the snake strikes and the prey gets free, like in your other thread, it HAS the chance to FLEE... in a tank, it has no choice but to curl up in a corner with no escape while this rat in question bites it... we choose to keep these snakes, raise them, AND KEEP THEM SAFE! meaning not putting them in any danger they can't escape from... people like YOU should not have any f'n snakes b... your risking your snake and when it's all scarred up, if it doesn't die, your probably not going to appreciate it as much...

[mykee]

"Mykee....my first concern is safety, second is nutrition.."

Guess that didn't work for you, huh?

[sapphire_moon]

Mykee is one of the few members on here that I took advice from when I was having problem with my bp's. He jumped down his throat for a reason.

He cares about the saftey and well being of the snake. Not whomever's feelings.

da_illest: freak REFUSES to "rub a dead gerbil on a rat" and he did say that in one of his other threads. I just hope no newbie coming on here reads the post that says "gerbils are great" and gets their poor snake addicted to them.

If you are going to start comparing things to the wild, go outside, get some dirt, some mites, etc...etc...set up your cage, and throw a live gerbil in there, because hey, thats how they do it in the wild.
As someone else already said, we are taking care of these animals, you have to take care of a captive ball python, like a captive ball python! Dead food (or atleast if you feed live, live restrained then), specific temps, nice tight hides, and paper towel substrate to watch for mites!

and freak how dangerous.......a itty bitty mouse, an adult, can KILL a 4ft ball python with one bite, all it takes is ONE bite (to the back of the head) all it takes is a few seconds, and I'm sorry your not superman, you wouldn't be able to get the mouse out of there in time, especially if the snake mis struck and got the midsection or rear and was coiled around it!

And your first concern should be safety AND nutrition!



EDIT:
freakonaleash:
ok knoerr, now im not one of these mid 30's single herpetologists sitting in they're apartments with temperature controlled rubbermaids and a freezer full of dead rodents, fondling themselves to "Anaconda"

First off I'm not mid 30's, I'm early 20's, I'm not single, been with someone for going on 3 yrs, If you want to take care of your snake then temperature control is what it's all about, as is humidity control which is the big deal about the rubbermaids, dead prey is good, it can't kill your snake(which is what you want right?You would like a live snake?), although I thought anaconda was a funny movie I also hated it because it was just another flick that portrayed snakes in a bad light, which is what we don't need.

And if your "fondling" yourself to this movie, you got issues.

And there are people on here younger than me that probably knows more than me. Get it together. These people know their stuff. It's up to you whether or not you want to slowly MURDER your snake, because you to high of temps, low/to high humidity, or if your damned gerbil chews out the spine of your snake, or if you want to take care of it with proper temps, proper humidity, and dead prey items (or atleast live restrained)

[balakoth]

Again your attitude shows thru which is what I was commenting on. There are many people able to give advice without being snappy. Wether you care for the animal or not, there are proper ways to get across information so that someone will retain it.

Your belittling is not one of them


Funny how I confront you on jumping down his throat and all of a sudden Im a complete idiot in your eyes too.

I feel people here need to concider themselves teachers of small children even if they are older than some of us. Consistant solid advice, without making the person feel like an idiot is one way for them to LEARN.

But by all means you'll go about doing what your doing, and many will disregard, some won't. Possibly learn to take some critisim, if you found what i said in some way offending I appologize, But I didn see how your first response was going to HELP the young man.

[sapphire_moon]

balakoth: only in the first part was I responding to you (and no where did I even say the word idiot). The rest of it was to freak.

And the only reason it was so rude and "Jumping down his throat" was because he has been asked and told and pleaded with to take care of his snake properly. Some people only learn when they are holding a dead snake in their hands wondering why.

BTW not everything is sweet with cherries on top. Sometimes people need a good slap in the face (be it physical or verbally) to get something across.

[mykee]

Balakoth, if you did YOUR research, you would have noticed that recently, in other threads started by our 'subject', that a great deal of other members, including myself, attempted to give great advice. If said advice would rather be completely ignored, causing the snake to then be put in direct danger, than your darn tootin' I'm (we're) gonna be pi$$ed! Regarding your 'idiot' comment, I'm glad you said it, and not me... If you want to ride in on your white horse and stick your nose in an ongoing discussion with ZERO prior history, then yes, your new label is deserved. Wear it well.

[PugLuv83]

Yeah, anyway, if you guys are done....

Why not just feed your BP big mice more often?

That's what we do for my boy....

You can try alive, stunned, or newly killed...



Also, I have noticed that once your snake latches onto a mouse, if it keeps kicking, then grab its tail and told it tight or wiggle it. This will do one of two things - if you wiggle the mouse, the snake will coil tighter; if you hold the tail, the mouses feet will not be able to scratch the snake.

When we feed live, we hold the mouse by its tail in the corner of the container we feed them in. That means that the mouse stays pretty much in the same place so the snake can strike, and that it won't be going after your Ball.

Feel free to e-mail or PM me if you want to talk more about your BP with me, and not risk getting ridiculed.

Ginny

[sapphire_moon]

if your snake strikes midsection or rear end of the mouse, the mouse can bite, and unless you are superman, there is no way you can get something infront of the mouses mouth before it takes out an eye or worse, kills the snake by bitting it in the back of the head.

If you are going to feed live. feed live restrained.

[mykee]

They're coming out of the woodwork now aren't they? Though you do have a point, Pug. Any attempt to restrain the food item is better than a free-for-all in the enclosure.

[Freakonaleash]

/sigh ... the prey is DEAD before i give it to my snake. DEAD DEAD DEAD , dead gerbils dont bite =) , my snake LOVES gerbils, so i will continue to feed it gerbils. this is my experience thusfar and im sticking with it. mykee i dont like you... period... i never said i was an expert (infact im sure i clearly stated i WAS NOT an expert) , i was just trying to help the guy out like everyone else... i wanted to share with him how it is working for me, this IS the purpose of the website right? Da Illest, as i said earlier in this very paragraph, as well as earlier in the thread, the gerbils are dead... they dont fight back. sapphire, my aquarium has been at a stable temp of 90-97 on the hot side and 80-85 on the cool side for atleast two weeks now... and i have accomplished this in a "gasp" NON rubbermaid enclosure, i have also been able to keep the humidity at an almost constant 65+ since the shedding incident. my exotic animals/reptile veterinarian said that my snake is in perfect health and condition, and to continue doing what im doing. so thats what im doing. and once again... the gerbils cant kill my snake because THEY ARE DEAD... dead gerbils CANT KILL A SNAKE. holy hell.... and im sure no one will come on here, see this "experts" (mykee's words not mine) advice about feeding theyre ball gerbils, and then get the poor lil bastards addicted to em. not unless they maybe.... STOPPED at my reply... aaaaand.... like... didnt read ANYTHING else on the website.... be realistic. in my reply to knoerr... yeah maybe i was a little smart *** to a few of you... but damn... you deserve it. i was just telling him what worked for me. and i even said that... so get off my freaking back... i am not SLOWLY KILLING my ball python.

[Cake]

Maybe it is the movement of the live prey which your BP is keying on. This is what I discovered with my BP, for a while is was feeding him live rats unrestrained but never felt comfortable with it. As i observed him eating he seemed only to strike when the rat was moving. Im one of my labs at school me were doing a smooth muscle experiment on rat small intestine tissue. We kill the rats using cervical dislocation. this results in the rat twitching for up to 20 sec.

It takes some practice to do it correctly but when done properly the rat feels almost no pain and dies quickly, although it is not for the faint of heart but if you have no problem throwing a gerbil into concret to kill it you shouldn't have a problem with it.

Now i get my BP's attention but holding the rat in the enclosure till my ball pops his head up and begins to investigate the smell, then i simply break the rats neck and drop him in. My BP allways takes the rat right away and the twitching seems to set him off.

all you need to preform cervical dislocation is a heavy cylindical bar approx 1 to 1 1/2 inch in diameter.
take teh rat in one hand and whack it accross the back of the head with the bar to stun it. use one hand to grab the tail and the other to press the bar against the back of the rats head, then pull teh tail and push the bar down and forward at the base of the skull. You know you did it right when the rat starts to twitch uncontrollably.

[Freakonaleash]

And to everyone but the flamers (Mykee/ Sapphire) ... these people DO know what they are talking about. They are like, professionals. That is why i use this website almost exclusively. I have followed every bit of advice that has been given to me, except feeding rats, and except for putting my snake in a rubbermaid... thats it. That is ALL i have refused to do that i have been told is best. i use newspaper now, i have two digi thermo's/hydro's in the aquarium, i have a UTH, i have smaller hides, i have a larger waterbowl, i TAKE HIM TO THE VET, i feed fresh killed (so the gerbils dont eat the back of my snakes head), i have ventilation holes drilled, i changed the lighting to an incandescent bulb, i handle him for 15 minutes a day, unless he has eaten in the last 36 hours, i constantly monitor and record the temperatures and humidity, THIS IS ALLLLL STUFF THAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED TO ME ON THIS WEBSITE.... the only bits of knowledge i have ignored are the rubbermaid, and the rats. so quit talking to me like im a beligerant little kid whos going to do whatever he wants no matter what others say. after all, whos raising the snake... me or you? can i not make a decision or two?

[Freakonaleash]

oh my god cake... thats horrible =/ , how do you figure it to be any better than thwacking it on something hard? UGH

[Cake]

Its a perfectly acceptable way to kill a rodent, animal rights at the university of guelph dont have a problem with it so niether do I. Is just a question of weather or not you can stomach it. I personally think its less painfull then CO2. Once you seperate the spinal chord they are incapable of feeling pain, and the swift whack to the head knocks em out for the 2 secs it takes to do the dirty work.

[Freakonaleash]

i can see how its a quick and efficient way to kill it... but damn... that just sounds harsh. not something i have the stomach for. like you said heh. infact, im thinking it may be worth a try to try and feed my snake thawed out rodents, so i dont have to kill it myself... i will try that this coming week, cause he just ate last night. but honestly i dont know if he will go for it. like i said, the previous owner i know for a fact now, fed almost strictly fresh killed gerbils to all his balls. i dont have a huge problem with the swinging-the-bag-to-the-conrete method, cause i never have to even touch the poor little thing. i will see how it goes though...

[dave68]

wow I think a lot of people should calm down and read through first at least before they so callously attack one another, come on let's grow up!!!!

Dave

[Cake]

Its a case of whatever does the trick you you, I got a friend who kills em by grabbing em by the tail and throwing the mouse or rat into the bathtub.

[Cake]

Do you call it a poor little thing while your winging it around above your head?....hahaha.

I dont meant to attack you I just think its funny that you call it a poor little thing and then smash it into concrete. I have this warped picture in my mind of you looking sad and then....splat

[mykee]

Freak, as no on else has mentioned it, 97 degrees is way too hot for the hot spot. Try to keep it between 90-95 if you must. Also, 65% humidity is also a tad high, 50-60% is optimal when NOT in shed, and 80% when IN shed. Lastly, not ONCE did I mention that you should permanently change your enclosure to a rubbermaid, had you attempted to continue trying rats, a smaller enclosure might have helped you, but if you read over my last almost two years of posts, I always say that it is difficult to maintain the proper husbandry in an aquarium, BUT if you can keep the temps where they need to be, and the humidity up, then more power to you. I'm done.

[sapphire_moon]

exactly, if you can keep the temps and humidity where they need to be (as I thought you were having trouble with it, so sorry to have "attacked" you on that!) then great.

As for cervical dislocation, it is one of the top "humane" ways of killing snake food. It's basicly Co2, cervical dislocation, whacking. If done properly (which it is hard to do on a grown rat) then results in a quick, painless death.

[dave68]

I'm not sure what all the heat about aquariums is coming from. I keep allmost my whole collection in aquariums and have never had any problems. They always eat, they breed regularily and produce vibrant healthy offspring. The only thing is, you need to select the appropriate size for each specimen. I am in no way putting down the idea of keeping in rubbermaids etc... It really is a preferance thing in my opinion. Nothing worthy of such a drawn out argument.To all do what works for you and be happy.

Dave

[da_illest]

freak, my bad for speaking the way i did in my last post.. that wasn't the way you give advice.. i got mad because i had the whole WILD/CAPTIVE arguement with people in the past.. i don't like people comparing things in captivity to the wild... i still believe what i said was right, just said in the wrong manner, causing a problem...

[balakoth]

Sapphire, none of my comments were directed towards you.

Quote : "If you want to ride in on your white horse and stick your nose in an ongoing discussion with ZERO prior history, then yes, your new label is deserved. "

Sorry, I thought I was browsing a public forum.

We are done.. moving on.

[balakoth]

EDIT

[Freakonaleash]

Cake, honestly i have a soft spot for rodents, they are incredibly cute and for about two years i had been just keeping them as pets, when they would have a litter id sell them to the pet store. so yea i do feel kind of bad when i have to kill a gerbil (gerbils are infintely more cute than a mouse any day) but when i stopped keeping mice as pets, that freed up room for something else, so thats why we got the snake. but i know that i cant feed the snake a live gerbil so i do kill it, but i kill it with a heavy heart... if that makes any kind of sense. as far as the whole swinging around thing, i like to think of it as one last thrill for the gerbil =) ... like when the ferris wheel reaches its peak velocity. but i have killed... 3 gerbils and a rat now with the old plastic bag against the ground technique, and it just seems the fastest and least painful... like i said i have never heard a single noise from the rodent after it struck. this also keeps me from having to touch or handle the gerbil at all... cause if i had to hold the poor thing, i could never kill it. so yea, i do feel bad about killing em... but i know i have to. which is why next week im going to try thawed prey ( i have my doubts though... i have talked to the previous owner, and he told me he had been feeding it fresh killed gerbils for years) but i figure its worth a try.
Mykee, actually... a while back, when i was having trouble with temps... i cant remember who, but someone told me that if i can keep the warm side temp below 100 F its fine... but very well obi wan /smile , i will do some more fine tuning with my set up, maybe add another CD case to the corners to try and get it down a few degrees (as i have still not been able to find an appropriate lamp dimmer or rheostat that doesnt require me to do any wiring and possibly ruining my 50 dollar UTH). Also , i was told on here that as long as the humidity stays above 50 percent at all times its fine, that it only has to be around 80 during shedding. but i cant think of anything to fix that... as since i have put in a new larger water bowl it has stuck around 65. other than maybe moving the bowl further from the UTH. that may lower it a bit. as far as the whole aquarium comment, im sorry, i havent been here two years (only about a month really) , and it seemed like everyone (you included) was completely dead set against my using an aquarium since i came here. But yes, the temps are relatively stable, will hopefully be lowered a couple degrees by tomorrow morning, along with a lower humidity. so until i can find the time to tackle a custom enclosure, i am really pretty happy with what i got.
sapphire, yes you are right, in the first week or two i had MUCH trouble with temps. but yes they are pretty stable now (though they need to come down a few degrees apparently) i do understand all the pushing and shoving to get me to move to a much more easily manipulated rubbermaid, but like i said, its just not something i want to do... im sure rubbermaids look awesome with you breed or collect on a larger scale, but to have a single solitary rubbermaid chillin on a coffee table with a 3.5 ft BP in it, is a little too ghetto for me. that is why i was so intent on getting the aquarium right. it is NOT like i just pissed away all the advice you have given me, it was you that inspired me to get a digi (which i have two of now, one for either side of the tank), the benefits of a UTH, to use newspaper, even the proper sized hides, hell , it was you that directed me to this website, which has been invaluable to me. and for all this i sincerely thank you. but when i said no thanks to the rubbermaid and rats suggestions, it was like i had immediately broken all 7 sins and pissed on the ten commandments in your eyes, suddenly i was mistreating my snake, not taking care of it, slowly killing it, thats just ridiculous. im doing the best i can, while trying to keep a nice looking set up, and a healthy one a week eating ball python... thats all.

[mykee]

Freak, I know what you mean, I had the first three ball pythons I ever got set up in aquariums, ranging in size from a 33 gallon to a 75 gallon. Once I started to increase my collection, I found it easier to ditch the whole aquarium idea and go with the 'rubbermaids in a rack' plan. With 20+ balls, the time, space and energy it saved just made it the logical solution. The only problem that I have with aquariums is that 95% of aquarium setups are not maintaining proper husbandry; either temps are too cool, too hot, no gradient, too little humidity, not enough humidity and so on. If you personally have the husbandry close to dead-on with an aquarium, go for it. It's all about the snake.

[Freakonaleash]

its nice knowing we have come to an understanding =)
but yes, the environment in the aquarium is near perfect... it still fluctuates, but it stays in the safe zones for temps and hum. so until i can build an enclosure it is a nice set up.