Calcium Sand...

[mathaldo]

At the reptile show this weekend there was a vendor called, "Dragon Shack Farms."

They had calcium, cricket food, cricket quenchers, calcium sand, etc.

Anyways I was looking at their sand and it was really different compared to the other types of sand I've seen. It was almost powder like. It wasn't like the thick square pieces you normally see. I found their site, and here's what it says about it.

"Calcium Bed: A fine, all-natural sand that makes an attractive ground cover in your vivarium. Derived from ancient seabeds, this substrate poses no threat if ingested by your pet. Available in both medium grey and reddish beige."

(Here's the link- http://www.dragonshackfarms.ca/Products-frameset.htm)

My question is do you think that this is safe for leopard geckos, or other reptiles that live in arid desert-like areas? I know that leopard geckos don't live in "sandy" areas, but I saw a really interesting naturalistic set-up in the last issue of REPTILES and I wanted to try and make it.

[sketchy4]

nope. i still wouldnt risk impaction even if it is like a powder. if its calcium sand then there are still other problems that can occur.

[ejoech]

so then why do people leave a bowl of calcium out 24/7? An expensive solution to the substrate debate would be to buy reptile calcium in bulk and use that as a substrate. that could be kind of what this calci-sand is. not really sand..powder.

[Tim and Julie B]

Why would anyone want to keep any reptile on nothing more than dust? I wouldn't trust it to be safe, and would much rather use tile, slate or paper towel. Unless they can prove it is 100% safe (using documentation from well known keepers and verterenary experts, I wouldn't even try. I would be concerned with the inhalation of such a fine substrate. I think you could acheive the same results using the expandable coconut fibre. Just follow the expansion directions and compact it to make the basic structural form, then allow it to dry completely before putting your gecko in. You will still need to add a humid hide, someing left out in the magazine.

Julie

[DragnDrop]

Calcium is an essential mineral, you can't have a healthy leo without it. But too much calcium is dangerous, and can be fatal in the long run.

Calcium dust as substrate is a no-no. Fine dust will be inhaled, you end up with pneumonia. Also in the moist passages of the lungs, the dust will turn to calcium paste. 'Nuff said.

Excess calcium in the digestive tract will interfere with absorption of the food. Calcium (like TUMS and Roll-aids) neutralizes acid - so all eaten calcium will, so some extent, neutralize the digestive juices. However, in a normal dose, there's not enough calcium to cause problems, there's enough acid left in the stomach and intestines to do the job of digestion. If your leo eats way more calcium than is needed, there is a distinct possibility of neutralizing so much of the digestive juices/acids that the food can't be absorbed - it's not been processed properly. You can feed your gecko all he'll eat but he won't be able to use that food. The 'lumps' of undigested food can cause problems such as constipation or impaction if the gecko is weak enough. Even if the gecko can digest his food properly, there's still a problem with excess calcium in the long run. If excess is absorbed you end up with a hypercalcemic (excess calcium) animal. With hypercalcemia, your gecko is at risk of going into shock, kidney failure, kidney stones, heart problems, and even skeletal deformities (yup... odd but true - excess calcium can cause deformed bones and joints) and calcification of various organs.

Should you also happen to overdose your gecko on Vitamin D3, you are really risking his life - excess D3 can cause resorption of the bones, in effect causing a form of MBD, among other problems. If the doses are in excess it can also interfere with absorption of Vitamin A which is another dangerous situation and can be life threatening to your gecko and any offspring produced during this time (effects on the egg and embryo). If you've got a hypercalcemic animal as well, it's very likely to be a death sentence.

There are other possible problems from excess calcium and/or Vitamin D3, but for our purposes, this is enough. If you put all the info together, you'll see that using calcium dust as a substrate or calcium based sand as substrate isn't the safest idea. And I didn't even touch on calci-sand type substrate causing impaction (which they can and probably will if used with the gecko in this example).

[Ixidor]

Plus what some people fail to realize is that sand is tiny glass? I don't know about you but I wouldn't put my leos on a bunch of tiny glass shards

[mathaldo]

It's not a dust. It's sand, but fine grade sand.

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Maybe it is just me, but wouldn't a finer powder of crushed rock be more dangerous then your typical play sand? I mean, I picture that kind of stuff clumping, and sticking to everything when wet (imagine in a digestive tract).

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Plus what some people fail to realize is that sand is tiny glass?

I always thought sand was crushed rock? If sand is glass, why isn't there glass in nature? And why do we need sand to make glass? :confused:

[spidergecko]

There is glass in nature. Superheated rock forced to cool quickly is amorphous and forms glasses.

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Makes sense, glad I am not a geologist :D.

[Ixidor]

thats why when lightning strikes on the beach it makes glass

[Bartman]

REALLY?!

Thats awesome...

I think using slate or papertowl is just the safest and smartest way to go...slate is what they really live on in the wild right, so why try and change that??

[Ixidor]

also coconut husk bark substrates (eco earth and bed a beast and similar products) are completly safe for leos, and looks fairly natural

[Slannesh]

Excess calcium in the digestive tract will interfere with absorption of the food. Calcium (like TUMS and Roll-aids) neutralizes acid - so all eaten calcium will, so some extent, neutralize the digestive juices.

Ummm Calcium on it's own doesn't neutralize acid. It's not a base. Tums and other such supplements are made of Calcium Carbonate which is an antacid... though I don't recall offhand if it's Calcium Carbonate or just Carbonate that's basic...

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Slannesh
Ummm Calcium on it's own doesn't neutralize acid. It's not a base. Tums and other such supplements are made of Calcium Carbonate which is an antacid... though I don't recall offhand if it's Calcium Carbonate or just Carbonate that's basic...



Calci-sand ingredient list according to the T-Rex webiste Calci-sand (http://www.t-rexproducts.com/Dynamic/product_detail.asp?item=81700&series=1) (Take the 'ingredients' link to read:

Ingredients:
Calcium Carbonate


Miner-all uses calcium carbonate according to the list of ingredients on the label.

Rep-cal is calcium carbonate according to the website (http://www.repcal.com/supp.htm#Original Calcium)

Most reptile calcium products are calcium carbonate.


According to All About Tums (http://tums.com/about_history.asp) on the official Tums website "TUMS® contains calcium carbonate, which is an excellent acid neutralizer"

You can expect the normally used brands of calcium supplements and the commonly used brand of calcium substrate to neutralize stomach acids. As long as it has calcium carbonate (and that includes oyster shell) it's an antacid.

[da_illest]

Originally posted by Ixidor
also coconut husk bark substrates (eco earth and bed a beast and similar products) are completly safe for leos, and looks fairly natural

is this true? are you positive?

[Ixidor]

it is, the acid ratio for coconut husk is 0.5, much less than the acid of a leo's stomach acid, I have never heard, neither do I think I ever will, about a complaint from eco earth and similar products, the leos stomach acid completely neutralize it