First Snake

[HighFlyer]

Hi All,

I am buying my first snake and have heard conflicting information on what type to start with. The snakes that I, so far, am considering are Corn Snake, Ball Python, and California King Snake. I have a 6yo and an 11yo so child-friendly is very important.

I have heard that the Corn is a best 1st snake but I have also heard that it can be "nippy." So I am concerned about having the sanke near the kids. I have also heard that the Corn is more inquisitive than the Ball.

I have heard that the Ball is more sedentary but can be more tempermental than either the Corn or the King. I have also heard that it bites more than either the Corn or King and that it can have more feeding difficulties. I am a little concerned about the size that the Ball will grow to because of the kids.

I have heard that the King is more friendly and bites less than either the Corn or Ball. I have also heard that size-wise, the King is more like the Corn than the Ball and will only grow to 3 to 4 feet.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

HighFlyer

[Syco]

I would say go with a corn for a first snake. The only time I have known a corn to be nippy is as hatchlings and they quickly grow out of that. I've found kings to be more nippy and unpredictable than corns but that is just my experience.
You sound as if you have pretty much talked yourself out of a Ball Python and that is probably a good thing, not that the temperament is bad, but they can be frustrating when it comes to getting them to eat. You just can't really beat corn snakes as far as temperament, size, feeding, and all those different color morphs! But if you find a King you like better, it would probably work out just fine for you.

[anacondaman]

lol from my experiance... california kingsnakes are much more aggressive than the corn or the ball pythons when young. all three snakes you have choose are great for beginners. but if it wer up to me id go for the king:):):):):
my 2 cents
adam

[vanderkm]

I will echo what Syco has said, and likely many others will confirm - cornsnakes are one of the easiest first snakes. They are less likely to bite or musk than cal kings, are reliable feeders, very tolerant of handling (once they get past the hyper baby stage when they are very active) and tolerate a wide range of temperature and humidity without stress.

Cal kings have a very aggressive feeding response, which is nice because they always eat, but sometimes they mistake a finger for a mouse and they are more aggressive in a feeding response bite than a cornsnake would be. The also come in a more limited variety of colors (black/white, brown/yellow, white/yellow) than cornsnakes do.

Ball pythons may seem placid and very rarely bite, but their calm behaviour often masks a shy, easily stressed personality. Captive bred is a must (buy from a trustworthy breeder or they are likely to be wild caught and hard to acclimatize) and even then they have a strong tendency to stop feeding for months at a time (seasonally). Just check the ball python forum here for the number of posts relating to them being off feed. Doesn't seem like a big thing, but it can be a big issue for first time owners.

Any of these species can be a good first snake - people have started with all of them and never looked back, but in my opinion, having owned all three, the cornsnake gives you the best chance of a good first snake experience - way ahead of the other two.

mary v.

[HighFlyer]

I understand that the recommendation is a Corn but if patient would a Ball be a bad choice?

HighFlyer

[vanderkm]

Many will disagree with me, but in my opinion, a ball python is a bad choice for a first snake. This is based partly on owing them and partly on seeing the number of ball pythons that come through the local rescue relative to other snake species.

They have more demanding requirements for high heat and high humidity than are convenient to maintain for most pet owners. Aquariums with heat lights are the typical cage people want for a snake so they can see it and they are a bad choice for ball pythons - too much ventillation. In correct cages (rubbermaid type tubs) if they are humid enough, but not warm enough, which often occurs with first time owners, scale rot is a big risk.

They are sensitive and secretive snakes and choose to remain hiddent in a small, tight dark hide place most of the time - not good for people who expect them to be out cruising around and a visible pet. They are less tolerant of handling than corns or kings - in terms of it stressing them and putting them off feed. This is in addition to the seasonal fasting that they do.

They are great snakes, many people keep them and they can be good first pets - but the risk of a problem with the snake or expectations not being met is higher with a ball python than a corn or king.

If you are set on a ball python - spend some time on the forum here - search old posts on feeding and housing issues to get a real feel for what is involved in owning them. They are beautiful snakes -

Just a note that the sizes you quote above are a bit off - corns and kings range from 3-5 feet at maturity, cal kings can definately get up to 5 feet. The girth of both of these will be much less than a ball python of the same size. A ball python is rarely over 4 feet, very few get over 5 - they are short, thick bodied snakes.

mary v.

[Syco]

HighFlyer- I love Ball Pythons, I have 5 of them! I have to tell you though, when they decide to be picky about feeding it can get very frustrating. All of mine went off feed last November and a couple of them are just now starting to eat on a regular basis. They can be picky about what they eat also, some will eat nothing but live rodents, some want only mice, I have one that *prefers* dark colored rodents. They also *need* to eat rats, an adult Ball Python could eat 6-8 mice at one feeding, and getting a BP on f/t rodents can be a chore :( Trust me, I am going through this right now. Most corns and kings don't care if the prey is live or f/t they just eat :)
Also there is the heat and humidity requirements that Mary mentioned, that can be a pain also. Check out the BP forum, ask questions and read some of the post, if you still decide you want a BP, go for it! They can be great snakes, you just have to know what you are getting into.

[Simon Sansom]

Quite honestly, I would not recommend even a captive-bred Ball for a first-time owner. Their frequent bouts of non-feeding may drive a new herper nuts.
Don't get me wrong, they're beautiful snakes with a generally peaceable demeanor, and some folks do start out with them quite successfully, but I personally would not recommend one to you.

I'd go with either a corn or a king. The colour and pattern combinations are myriad, so I'll bet you'll find something to light your fire, lol!

And honestly, kings (such as California Kings) aren't really particularly "aggressive" compared to any other snake. They have do have a rather "enthusiastic" feeding response, which I think people often tend to mistake as "aggression".
I've kept, bred, and raised a few different types of kings, and I've very rarely been nipped. It's really just a matter of getting to know the animal and how it works; for example - I know that if I wave a mouse in front of my large Mexican Black King, take it away, and then try to pick the snake up the odds are that he'll take a swipe at me, because he's in "feeding mode". But I can come back five minutes later, open his enclosure, reach in and gently take him out with no trouble at all (as long as I wash my hands).

You just learn how to deal with it. Observe your animal. Watch what it does. Learn from it. It's all part of the fun!

Anyway, sorry to ramble on...

Whatever snake you decide on, enjoy it!

Take care, and welcome

Simon R. Sansom

[HighFlyer]

I am getting the feeling that I would probably be OK with a Ball Python but a Corn Snake or King Snake would be a "safer" choice for a first snake. I assume the off-feeding issue will require patience in continuing to offer food about once a week even if it not accepted.

Regarding my kids (6yo boy and 11yo boy) - are any of the ones that I am considering a better choice since they are going to want to handle the snake from time to time? I don't intend to let them handle the snake without me being next to them.

Thanks!

HighFlyer

[Gillards]

With the ages af the kids I would suggest a Thayeri. Variable kingsnake or Thayeri only grow to about 30 inches and will never eat anything bigger than a hopper mouse. The are not aggressive at all and are easy to handle. They don't need it very warm and do not require a large tank. We have some pics on the website

Gillard's Herps Canada (http://www.gillardsherpscanada.com)

Give us a call if you want some more information 1-519-654-9352.

Lorraine

[crazyboy]

i think your best bet would be a corn. especially being that you have kids that are going to want to handle them. ball pythons are very secrative animals. and from what ive read on the site cal. kings seem to have a bad temper. cornsnakes are very forgiving and can be handled often safely. whatever you decide to get good look and make sure you research research adn research before you go out and purchase the animal. also have the enclosure set up and running for about 1 week before getting your new pet.

[concept3]

well, my first snake was a ball, i never got bit by her once, she never gave me a hard time when it came to feeding, I would absolutly reccomend the ball, as long as its captive bred.

[Vanan]

Hands down, the corn would be my recommendation. Too many pros to list. I always say, can't go wrong with a corn.

I would stay away from calikings. Especially if you don't want to risk a bite on one of your kids. Calikings have been known to be bitey throughout their lives. I've had everything from a hatchling to a 7yr old calking be bitey. The worst part is, it's not always an aggressive bite. They just love to eat! I'm sure MarkI can vouch for me when I say they tend to be bitey. :)

[proud2bcanadian]

IMO, I think that a ball python would be the best. You don't have to clean up after them as much as corns.

lol! At the expo, I was talking to someone, and they're like
'The good thing about Balls is that when they crap, they crap once and in one place. Compared to Corns - when they crap, they crap in five different areas.'

Ball Pythons are going to be my first snake, and they're going to be around children a lot. So I would suggest a Ball Python.

With whatever you choose, good luck with it,

[Burium]

We have both a corn and Mexican Black Kings. Just aquired those. And I must say that the Mex blacks are much more docile than our corn. Don't get me wrong. Our corn is very gentle as well. Our 4 year old holds all of our snakes (they are still small). I don't think you could go wrong with either a corn or a Mex black king. Either way, enjoy! Welcome to the addiction.

Kelly

[Nicky]

My first snake was a corn he's always been a sweety never bites did go off feed once for 4 months though which was a bit fusterating. I know i;m repeating what alot of people have said but corns truely are a re great first snake. Especailly if you have kids just because a ball python is much more easly stressed and since there nocturnal your kids will most likely never see him/ her out cruising around as a corn would. I"ve never worked with a king so I can;t comment on them but if you want a snake that is usually very docile,sweet won;t bite and has a high tolerance of handleing a corn is the way to go. Corns also come in tons of cool colors and are relativly cheap to maintain and don;t get to big.
Just my thoughts
Kayla:)

btw good luck with whatever you get and post pics:D:D

[NewLineReptile]

Carpet python

Brandon

[HighFlyer]

Thanks to all who responded!

I decided to go with the Corn Snake based upon all the advice and what I have read elsewhere. Also, I figured that the Corn would be more active during the day than the Ball Python which is nocturnal.

So, I placed an order today for a Corn Snake which should arrive next Wednesday. Now I just have to decide on a color!

I have a 10 gallon tank set up with a 10-20 gallon UTH, 2 small hollow log hides, a corner water dish, 2 thermometers (one for each side of the tank), a humidity gauge and a 100 watt heat lamp. The tank is 75 to 80 degrees without the heat lamp being on and 85 to 90 degrees (on the hot side) when its on.

Is this a good set-up? Should I replace the heat lamp with a UVA
lamp?

Thanks!

HighFlyer

[sapphire_moon]

And as for kids or even anyone else for that matter.
If it has a mouth, it can bite!

Doesn't matter if it's a ball python, corn snake, or king snake.

[Nicky]

The temps seem fine the basking spot seems a bit high i usually keep my warm end a few degrees cooler but it won't make much of a difference as corns thrive very well in a variety of conditions. Tank setup seems fine too. just out of curiosity what is the uth for? at night? because at night you can just let it drop to room temp so you don't really need the uth ( unless i read your post wrong and am just confusing you then forget what I just said lol). Two hides sounds great just make sure you have one on both side so your new snake can choose and thermoregulate(probably spelt that wrong sorry). Also i'm not sure if you have a copy but the cornsnake manual by kathy love is an excellent book which will answer many of your questions along with tons of cool pics of different color morphs you can pick one up at most pet stores or order a copy from her site at http://www.corn-utopia.com/.
Good luck with your new snake and don't hesitate to ask if you ever have any questions as theres tons of knowlagable people on these forums:) have fun
Kayla:)

p.s pics pics pics everyone loves pics

[Fishandsnakelov]

Even though no one has mentioned them Garter Snakes are a good beginners Snake also. They are pretty timid and grow to about 2 ft give or take a few inches.

[HighFlyer]

I was told that the UTH was required in order to provide appropriate temperatures in the tank. I usually leave the UTH on at all times and only keep the heat lamp on a few hours at a time and never overnight. Also, I keep the air conditioning relatively cold in that room at night in the warm weather and in winter, I let temperatures drop to about 62 overnight.

Based on this, my thinking is that the UTH is the best way to continuously maintain adequate temperastures. Any thoughts?

Thanks! :)

HighFlyer

[Cake]

I love it, someone who has actaully thought everything out and asked the right questions before they actually purchased a snake. I congradulate you Highflyer, I wish there was more people out there like you.

As for keeping the UTH on overnight as a heat source, just check your temps whithout the lamp on and if they are within tollerences then you are fine..

[Simon Sansom]

Why does everyone "freak out" over being bitten by even small colubrids...? I mean, it's not like a dog-bite, for cryin' out loud!
I know folks who will happily rough-house with dogs or cats and allow themselves to be playfully nipped/scratched, yet they get upset over even a tiny snake-nip, lol!

Always wondered why...?

Cheers!

Simon R. Sansom

[MouseKilla]

Snakes just look scarier that's all. lol!

It's true though, a pet hamster is capable of a worse bite than most colubrids.

I was bitten the other day by a 5 foot pine snake and all I got was four little scratches, and that's from a bite that included him coiling around my arm and gnawing on my hand. It bled a little but it was really nothing. I've had much worse cat scratches.

Corns and cal kings don't get as big as pines and are totally incapable of causing any significant injury.

[Simon Sansom]

LOL, 'Killa!

Snakes really don't have much jaw-power, so a bite's basically just a pinch.

Yes, hamsters are vicious little S.O.B's aren't they?

Cheers!

Simon R. Sansom

[jjnnbns]

HighFlyer-

I would suggest IMMEDIATELY getting a temp gun or else a digital thermometer instead of your circular stick on ones. THere is one at Walmart for under $15 and it also tells you the humidity.

This is because the "stickies" only measure ambient air temps and I would guess that the surface temp is going to be too hot where the UTH is, as they nearly always need a dimmer so that they don't cook corn.

I don't want to be rude, as I was impressed that you have done so much research ahead of time (Congrats!) but I do want to help you to take the best care of your new favorite pet!

Any other questoins just ask,
Brent Strande

PS
Have you decided which color morph to go with?

[rwg]

People freak out about colubrid bites because they've never been bitten before. The first time our cat scratched my daughter she was freaked out too. She has gotten used to it. Several of our snakes have struck at or bitten my wife and I, and our daughter has found that very off-putting. It's natural and instinctive to be scared of being bitten.

A corn is a great decision. I agree that kings are hungry more than aggressive, but a bite is a bite, and if your kids get traumatized by being bitten, they may be put off reptiles for a long time. I have to warn you though...once you get used to your corn, you may find yourself handling every snake in the pet store every time you go in. Next thing you know you're like me...15 snakes living next to my bed, and my father-in-law wont visit anymore.

rg

[Beardonicus]

Snakes really don't have much jaw-power, so a bite's basically just a pinch.

Get bit by an ETB, or boid over 6 feet and then tell me they don't have any jaw power LOL. ;)

But yeah, most colubrid bites aren't anything to freak out over....I get nailed on a daily basis by my pissy female Yellow Rat.

Also, good luck with your Corn, highflyer, I think you made an excellent choice! :)