Posioning cats (no I'm not)

[Rebecca]

My sisters cat was poisioned on Sat. I don't understand why people feel the need to be so mean and cruel to animals. Ayway his name is Spook and he is a pure black ball of love. The vet is going to phone my sister tonight and let her know if he's any better if he's not then she's going to put him down. It's SOO sad. I'm so mad for people doing that. There has been tons of cats go missing in their area. I also found out that during our towns clean up week someone threw out 2 of the HUGE garbage bags of cats. That's so mean. I just don't understand. There really was not a point in this post just kinda a vent thing I guess. Thanks for reading/listening.

[proud2bcanadian]

People like that are so stupid. Who would ever want to do that. Sorry to hear about your sister's cat, and I hope everything goes fine.

Good luck,

[Kimo]

This is why you keep cats indoors...

Sorry to hear about your sisters cat...best wishes with her

Josh

[concept3]

I agree it is unfortunate, but people who own cats are irresponsible. If i let my dog go out and crap over all my neibors lawns and flower gardens, the city pound would come pick him up immediatly. Why do people think cats are any diffrent? Sorry to hear about your cat but im fed up with people letting their cats just roam free.

[Ciddian]

That is just horrible..... Stories like that is why i keep my cat indoors. I've had cats that have dissapeared because of their wandering.... I've also had a cat attacked within my own home so they are not safe even there 100%
(Dog actually broke through my screen door and mauled my 18 year old cat)

But....then there are the sickos out there who do that s*** on purpose. That's what really ticks me off....
My mom's neighboor is not too fond of the poop in her garden but mom's cats keep the squirls out of her tomatos so it's all good....

Plus... i get called over to rid her flowerbed of cat poop :S LoL

I am very sorry to hear of your sisters cat and i hope he/she can pull through. (kitty and her)
May i ask what area she lives in?? Scar/Birch?

~*Ciddi*~

[marisa]

I have to agree with Concept here. It is a terrible thing to do but after weeks of having a neighbors cat spray into our windows, ruin our garden and crap in it.....we are quite frustrated as well. We have so far resorted to spraying him with a water bottle when we see him, but why should I have too?

Marisa

[JeffT]

Yeah that sucks, wish her the best of luck with the cat.

There used to be a psycho old man on my friends street and he would set up traps and leurs in his yard and would seriously catch, squirrels, cats and birds, take them out of the cage, snap their neck and chuck them in the garbage can. Sick huh?

[Bartman]

My dads prize dog, a german sheperd, was poisened and died. Their neighbor hated the barking so he through a piece of steak covered in rat poison...if i was born yet, i woulda given him a serious beating he would never freakin forget. That sob...hope he dies...

[spidergecko]

I believe there is a by-law in Toronto that requires cats to be on leads. They are not allowed to roam free. My cat has been on one his entire life (except for those days he manages to escape), even prior to the by-law. People used to laugh. Now my entire street does the same thing; cats, rabbits, you name it!

[Rebecca]

I hate to tell all you people who are in a round about blaming my sister for her cat being out, he escaped out he is an indoor cat. Also it does not matter how much a cat is making ou mad there is NO reason to hurt them. And I thank those who have sent their good wishes. He is doing better, but he still might not make it through the night.

[Bartman]

I give you the best wishes for your cat and really hope he pulls through..just because i couldnt imagine losing my cat to a dumbass reason like that..if i were to find out who did it, they'd honestly be dead..its just sick

[nita]

I agree that it is wrong but honestly after our 5 bunnies were torn apart and left all over our back yard my DH was seriously considering putting out Dog food with poison in it. Our cat also stays inside but she has escaped as well and there are many here that run loose, I wouldn't kill a cat that was ruining my yard but I would set traps and dump it at the pound and let them do it. A dog on the other hand that can rip my 2 cages apart and leave my rabbits torn apart in my yard is not something I'm willing to grab and throw into my van and take to the pound either and city bylaws do nothing about it, unless you call them right when you see the animal and they still have to get there before the animal has gotten back home. Anyone who touched my animals in my yard or home would get a severe beating and had my husband caught the dog that did this to our bunns it would be dead, plain and simple. The rule with any animal, controlled and contained.

[marisa]

I never said it was o.k. to hurt them, what I did say was the reason he got hurt is because someone is fed up with a neighborhood cat problem. Obviously. It's a slim chance that it's a true "psycho" killing your cats, although anyone who would could be deemed a psycho...its more like someone so tired of spending their time and money on loose cats when they shouldn't have too.

Marisa

[Jungle Jen]

I work in a veterinary hospital and see this far too often. Poisoned food in dog parks, poisoning the neighbours cat, its wrong. Plain and simple, no animal deserves to suffer like that. (Have you SEEN the effects of poisoning??? It's enough to make anyone cry & have nightmares.) There are cat repellants out there that work if you are that fed up with a cat in your garden. Talk to the owner if it's that much of a problem. Have a hose? Use it, it's only water, but for pete's sake no animals deserves harm to be done to it just for being what it is.

Rebecca - please send my best wishes of getting well to Spook and your sister. I am also in B.C. and am curious what area this happened in. If you could PM me or email me @ thecatspajamas@shaw.ca with the location I would appreciate it.

[spidergecko]

My neighbour used to smack my cat with a broom when he got in her garden, lol. But my cat did almost kill one of my other neighbour's chickens. They used to let them roam the neighbourhood in the mornings and this one came into my backyard. My cat was on his lead so i was able to pull him back in time. Yes, I do live in Toronto.

[NewLineReptile]

That is really sad what has happened to your sisters cat, But dont let us forget that it is summer time and cars over heat all the time. And if you dont no what i am talking about "PRESTONE" is all over our roads because of cars over heating.
That stuff is Posion and will kill a cat or dog. There is also alot of garden things that are used that will also posion your animals. So not all people are out to kill other peoples animals. I am not saying that there is not people like that because there is. But we cant just say that someone has posioned the animal. When there is so many things that we use every day that our animal can get into.

Best of luck i hope your sisters cat gets well soon

Brandon

[Tim and Julie B]

Anyone who condones the mistreatment of any animal, deserving or not, does not deserve to have any animals themselves. If you have outdoor animals that you want to keep safe, build a fence. How can anyone complain about kitty poop? Geez, it's just so itty bitty people. You wouldn't go around poisoning little birds for pooping in your yards, would you?

Anyways. I am very sorry about your sisters cat. I lost one a few years back and I still miss him. He was the best cat ever. We have two more now and they are great:D I hope that kitty pulls through, but if not I hope your sis will be sure to give her time and affection to another someday:D

Julie

[marisa]

Actually at our house, and in our town, there are so many stray unfixed males that we cannot leave windows open at night. If we do, we wake up to the smell of male spray which has been directly sprayed into the window.

We have both male and female cats here (all fixed indoor cats) that attract them apparently. So its a far larger problem than "little cat poop" as it has cost hundreds to clean our couches, rugs, even mattreses before. All because people let cats outside. Again, I do not condone hurting the cats, but I wanted to clear up that some people have a VERY large problem with others cats.

Marisa

[M_surinamensis]

I have a massive problem with outdoor cats... Filthy agressive predatory introduced species that kill and consume native wildlife on a scale that commercial land developers can't even begin to compare to. The fact that they reek and urinate all over everything certainly doesn't help endear them to me either.

Frankly outdoor cats are a threat and, like any wildlife threat that is in an area it doesn't belong in, it should be dealt with accordingly. I wouldn't suggest poison, as there's no need to go out of the way to be cruel or create suffering (not the individual animal's fault it was let loose to terrorize local wildlife and humans alike) plus the potential contamination of something other than your target is too great a risk... But by all means trap or shoot (if you're a good shot and can take them down cleanly) every wretched mongrel stray (If it's outdoors, it's a mongrel stray) you encounter. Any trapped, take them to the pound where they can be euthanized.

Out of every species which ended up introduced someplace it didn't belong... brown tree snakes, cane toads, rabbits, rats and the monitors and burms infesting the everglades these days... Cats are by FAR the most destructive and dangerous species and any damn fool who allows their animal outside (I understand this case was an accidental release, but just who's responsibility is it to keep the animal contained?) deserves to lose their pet. Once it's not under human control, it's no longer a pet, it's an invasive species and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Cruciform]

I've heard that as well, claims that cats are second only to man as the most destructive of species.

They've definitely done their share of damage to small ecosystems when introduced.

We have three of the little devils, and I'd hate to see them let loose in the neighborhood. The squirrels, rabbits, and birds that take refuge in the yard wouldn't have a chance in other parts of town.

You can go for a walk and see a cat running loose in every second yard in some areas, and the constant howling/screeching at nights is nuts. We just don't see as many because it's mostly a dog neighborhood, with several large breeds left out in fenced yards 24 hours a day.

Hope the poisoned cat gets better and returns to its rightful place on the window sill :)

[gonesnakee]

First sorry to hear about your cat. I'll state my basic rule as already stated by someone "Controlled & Contained". Also I have to state that not all Cats that are poisoned are done so intentionally. As mentioned in someones post ANTIFREEZE is a major killer. The stuff can be found in streets & parking lots quite often & for some reason Cats seem to love it & lap it up willing. Something to think about folks. I have had friends in the past who had "lost" their cats as a result of them helping themselves to a bucket of it in the garage. The cats weren't meant to be in the garage, but Cats end up lots of places they aren't supposed to be, thus the orgin of this thread apparrently. Again sorry to hear about the cat, but controlled & contained would have prevented this mishap. Its sad that your cat was an indoor cat as they all should be unless you have "mousers" in buildings on farms etc. Sorry for my lack of sympathy but I just finished chasing the neighbours Cat off my deck (daily thing). It likes to kill the birds & squirrrels I feed, wreck my window screens, spray my doors & windows, dig up & crap in my raspberries, rip open & scatter my garbage etc etc. Despite this I would never do anything to hurt it. Heck if I wanted to I could have "nailed" it twice today already with my "big stick". For a Cat its not too swift LOL Anyhow these issues should be brought up with the owners not the animals as they are just being themselves. Its the owners that are at fault. Next time you are upset enough to consider harming something, leave the animal alone, grab your "big stick" & look for the owner. My 2 cents Mark

[Tim and Julie B]

Exactly Mark. Leave the animals alone as they are doing what comes naturally.

Hmm.....penalize all living things other than humans because someone's god complex gets in the way? We started every known "pest" problem, why not just shoot to kill everyone who slips up whether it be accidental or on purpose? Probably be easier than hunting down every stray anyways!..........gimme a break

Just wanted to add, screen windows keep pets in and pests out:D

[Rebecca]

I thank you all for your good wishes he must have heard because he's coming home tomorrow. Spook has recovered and the vets office is calling him a miracle cat. They don't know how he survied. Anyway in response to some post here . . . There have been TONS of cats killed/lost/poisioned and worse in her area, I mean at least 10 that my sister knows of and she does not know everyone in the area. Almost every house has/had at least 2 cats. Most were indoor cats. My sister has never had anyone coplain about spook when he has gotten out before. They all know eachothers cats (most of them at least) so if there was a problem they could go to the owner. There is only one house there that HATES animals mainly cats. So you do the math. The problem is no one can prove a thing. The really sad part is lots of people have had these cats for years and have children (Ever tried to explain to a 5 year old that their cats is gone??).

[hhw]

I don't know about the rest of BC, but in Vancouver (and in particular my area) the last few years, coyotes have taken care of most of the outdoor cats and a lot of small dogs too. So, people around here know to keep their pets indoors or else face the consequences. Cat owners should be just as reponsible for keeping their cats indoors as herp keepers are responsible for keeping their herps inside their enclosures. If someone decides to put out poison or traps on their own property for whatever purpose, it's their perrogative to do so. I'm not saying it's right, but other people's pets should never make it onto their property in the first place.

[Jeff Hathaway]

I can't agree strongly enough about the statements already made about 'controlled and contained', etc. Beyond birds and squirrels, cats kill many snakes. A couple of thoughts to add:

1) It isn't just cat poop. Cats can carry several parasites which can infest humans, even though we're not the intended host. Some of these can be, and have been, fatal to humans.

2) Window screens can't be counted on to keep cats, or many other things, in or out.

3) If many cats are poisoned in a neighbourhood, it could be that someone has an open bucket of antifreeze around after changing their engine coolant.

4) Actually, it is not a landowner's prerogative to put out posion or traps (other than live traps) on their property for whatever purpose, or even for the specific purpose of controlling problem animals. One could understand the frustration that might lead them to do it, though.

I'm glad to hear that your sister's cat is getting better, since it is an indoor cat that got loose just this once.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[LISA127]

I'm so glad the cat is going to make a recovery. That's great news!
And to everyone else, there is no excuse for purposely hurting an animal.

[M_surinamensis]

I knew when I made my statements that they would not be a particularly popular view and that many would likely disagree... I'm okay with it of you are and in reading my initial post I do come off fairly harshly.

As several others have since confirmed, domestic cats are one of the most dangerous predatory species which has ever been introduced as an invasive species. Anywhere there is a feral cat population, there are massive losses in population numbers for native species. They kill and eat EVERYTHING smaller than themselves and larger than beetles/moths, have a very quick reproductive rate and are large enough not to have too many species view them as a potential meal. Put simply, they're a danger. A menace to populations of native fauna with everything that entails and all the associated environmental impacts. They do not belong outside uncontrolled.

I'm an animal lover... no question and you won't find one more passionate but I am NOT an anthropomorphizing wuvy duvy wishy washy bambi-fying one. I eat meat, wear leather and have no moral qualms whatsoever about destroying individual representatives of an invasive species. Man introduced them, man can fix it in whatever small capacity any individual is able. This does not mean I condone poisoning them... simply because I do not feel they should be living loose and see euthanization as a reasonable solution does not mean that needless cruelty is warranted, nor is the method safe or appropriate for the native species which destroying loose cats would protect. However since the likelyhood of any individual loose cat being placed is low, I do support euthanization. It's a logical solution to an unfortunate problem.

And... I really can't say I have much compassion for the owners of any cats lost or injured when they're free roaming. In this instance, sure it was an accident and mistakes will happen but the responsibility for keeping the animal under control goes to it's owner and the responsibility for accepting the consequences of a temporary lapse of containment goes in the exact same direction.

[sapphire_moon]

M surinamensis, I actually agree with you on alot of basis.

Cats were introduced and are a threat to all natural wildlife. They should be dealt with accordingly. But alot of people also think it's fine to "rescue" wild cats, neuter/spay them, then release them again! Or that if they put food down for the cat that it will just eat there and not hurt any of the "little birdies or squirles".

Though I also agree it's not entirely the cats fault, it is only doing what is necessary to survive.

Though it is NOT TO HARD to keep pet cats contained.
We have a pet cat that all it's life has been confine to ONE room (our room usually) and she starts to walk into the hall way all we have to do is yell at her, and she comes scrambling back into the room. This has only happened ONCE in close to 3 years.

Why is it so hard to keep a cat contained, but not a snake?


I am glad that your cat is getting better, and If someone is poisining the neighborhood cats I hope you find out who it is.

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by hhw
If someone decides to put out poison or traps on their own property for whatever purpose, it's their perrogative to do so. I'm not saying it's right, but other people's pets should never make it onto their property in the first place.

I'll have to remember to tell the kids to never go in your backyard. I guess gone are the days when a little kid could retrieve his lost fisbee or ball without worrying he might die in the neighbours yard :rolleyes:

[marisa]

Nice posts everyone.

As for this comment:

"Just wanted to add, screen windows keep pets in and pests out"

I assume since no one else in this entire thread mentioned windows, this is a suggested solution to my problem. How exactly though, will window screen stop male cats from spraying directly into my house via my window screen? LOL. You leave the window open an inch, and BAM, a male has put his butt to the window and sprayed inside all over whatever is near the window. So um, no window "screen" doesn't help as spray goes right through it. But yeah thanks for the idea???? I guess I have to continue keeping my windows closed so someones cute kitty can have his nights outside.

Our new solution to our personal cat problem is setting up live traps. Find a cat and it goes to the SPCA. If the owner didn't pay to have a microchip, that's too bad.

Seamus Haley's comments on the issue are exactly my thoughts as well.

Marisa

[sapphire_moon]

marisa, if you know whos cat it is........Take a picture, take alot of pictures with a poloroid instant camera or something like that. Then take the pictures to whomever owns the cat, (keep copies) and demand they pay for your furniture repair/cleaning costs!

I'm sure that can get quite expensive!

[Lisa]

If stray animals cause you so much grief set out live traps and then bring the animal to the pound.

we haven't had a problem with wild animals in our yard, the dog keeps them at bay.

[marisa]

Lisa- Yup that's what we have started doing recently. We haven't caught the sprayer yet but we will.

Marisa

[hhw]

Originally posted by spidergecko
I'll have to remember to tell the kids to never go in your backyard. I guess gone are the days when a little kid could retrieve his lost fisbee or ball without worrying he might die in the neighbours yard :rolleyes:

Let's just say I have a bucket of some corrosive chemicals left out, for specialized cleaning purposes or whatnot. If a small child were to come onto my property, dip their hands in the bucket, and suffer chemical burns, should I be reponsible for having left the chemicals out or should the parents of the child be reponsible for not keeping an eye on him?

If it were kids next door to me who lose their ball or frisbee in my backyard, they should be familiar enough with me to know what I may have going on in my backyard, and know whether or not I would find it acceptable for them to be in my yard. If they don't have that level of familiarity, they should be ringing on my doorbell to ask my permission.

I'm not supporting people leaving out poison for cats; for someone to do so purposely would be egregious. All I'm saying is one should be allowed to have whatever they want in their backyard. This would include poison/traps for cats. It would be ethically wrong, but it would be within the property owner's freedoms to do so. If something goes wrong because of someone or something trespassing, the trespasser's parent/owner should be the one at fault, not the person exercising their freedom to use their backyard for whatever purposes they see fit.

[Ixidor]

I can see where the two sides of the argument are coming from, but I do agree that cats do destroy the eco systems around peoples homes, ESPECIALLY in the everglades, my cousins cat actually kill animals for fun, he doesn't even eat them! His entertainment is killing birds, chipmunks, and squirells, once he even brought a garder snake!!!!!!! I agree that people should have to keep their cats inside, Sorry to hear about your cat though im glad he's ok

[gonesnakee]

Seeings how its been stated. Felines are the only species other than man that hunt just for the sport of it. Mark

[nita]

Well, the dogs that took my rabbit cages apart didn't eat the rabbits, just ripped them apart and left them. One of the worst cases by the way of cats damaging the ecosystem is in Australia where they are now a food source to the aboriginal peoples because they have killed off so many of the small native animals including rabbits and such. Cat bites also do serious damage to humans by the way. We have a cat and love her dearly and were worried sick when she got outside, thankfully nothing happened to her and she has never gotten out again. I have a hard enough time killing mice for my snakes and I couldn't bring myself to harm the loose dogs in my neighborhood regardless of the fact that they killed our rabbits and every night they will tear my garbage apart and leave it strewn down my ally, I would however have no problem doing it if the animal attacked my child for no reason! I am glad your sisters cat will be ok, it is sad that it happened but I completely understand why people are fed up with dealing with loose animals.

[annieb_mice]

I agree with many of the posters here. While I do love animals, and have a cat myself, after having spent MANY years in a ground-level apartment with lots of unneutered male cats spraying EVERYWHERE, I have grown to really dislike uncontrolled cats. While they can be loving and affectionate to their owners, they are also a nuisance to others if left outside and uncontained! I had to pay to fence off my "garden" and in the end completely screened off the entire patio because of the cat problems! I had one couch that was sprayed several times and I finally had to replace it because the stench simply would NOT come out. I can't count the number of times that I would go outside to work in my garden and find cat feces everywhere!
Confronting the cat's owners was useless as they refused to accept the responsibility for their animals. When I started to trap the cats and send them to the SPCA, I was actually threatened and my place was trashed. While I hated the constant problems the cats were causing, I was not about to harm the animals themselves, they were not to blame for their actions, their owners were.
I'm thankful that I'm living in the country on a big farm now. While there is still one male cat that is a "pest," it is nothing like having over a dozen male cats all coming onto my patio and spraying everything constantly.
Oh... and one last comment... I DID have a screen door on my patio door, but one of the cats managed to rip a hole in it and it was trashed within a week.
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

[Jeff Hathaway]

More comments:

"...in Australia where they are now a food source to the aboriginal peoples because they have killed off so many of the small native animals including rabbits and such"

Rabbits weren't native to Australia either.

"Let's just say I have a bucket of some corrosive chemicals left out, for specialized cleaning purposes or whatnot. If a small child were to come onto my property, dip their hands in the bucket, and suffer chemical burns, should I be reponsible for having left the chemicals out or should the parents of the child be reponsible for not keeping an eye on him?"

Well, it does depend on the details of the situation, but it is very likely that you would be found to be at least contributorily negligent, and you could end up on the wrong end of a civil lawsuit, or possibly even charged criminally depending upon how the police viewed the situation. I think part of the question would be the details of 'left out', and just how nasty the stuff in question was.

"If it were kids next door to me who lose their ball or frisbee in my backyard, they should be familiar enough with me to know what I may have going on in my backyard, and know whether or not I would find it acceptable for them to be in my yard. If they don't have that level of familiarity, they should be ringing on my doorbell to ask my permission."

Agreed, however...

"All I'm saying is one should be allowed to have whatever they want in their backyard. "

This is only true so far as the laws of the land allow. Generally, there are quite a few restriction on what you can actually do in your backyard. Check out your municipal zoning by-laws if you don't believe me. No as for the setting of traps, I believe that is a provincial issue.

"This would include poison/traps for cats. It would be ethically wrong, but it would be within the property owner's freedoms to do so. If something goes wrong because of someone or something trespassing, the trespasser's parent/owner should be the one at fault, not the person exercising their freedom to use their backyard for whatever purposes they see fit."

Not according to the law in Canada. If a child enters your backyard and drowns in your swimming pool because you left the gate unlocked, you're in big trouble. If you set traps and injure or kill the neighbours cat, dog, or child, you would not only be civilly liable but could go to jail for cruelty to animals, negligence causing bodily harm, etc. If a burglar enters your home and your dog/cat/nile monitor/death adder bites him, it is entirely possible that he could sue you successfully.

Here's some details specific to Nova Scotia, but I think that Ontario's Occupier's Liability law is very similar.
Apologies for thread hijacking:-)

"In Nova Scotia, the law with respect to this issue is covered by the Occupiers’ Liability Act, and to a lesser extent by the common law.

The Act basically sets out the duties owed by an occupier to persons entering upon their premises. The term "occupier" includes a person who is in physical possession of the premises or has responsibility over it. An occupier may also be someone who has control over either the condition of the premises, the activities that take place or those persons allowed on the property. The "premises" includes land, equipment and fixed structures, water, ships and vessels. It also includes portable structures (trailers) so long as the structure is designed or used for a residence, business or shelter.

What duty of care do occupiers owe?

Under the Act, the occupier owes a duty to take such care as is reasonable in all the circumstances to see that each person entering on the premises is reasonably safe. The duty is in respect to the condition of the premises, activities on the premises and the conduct of third parties. For example, if you host a party and one of your guests falls down the stairs as the result of a missing step, you may be held financially responsible for their injuries.

What can be done to discharge the duty?

In deciding whether an occupier has fulfilled his/her duty, the courts will consider a number of factors including the age of the person entering the premises or that person’s ability to appreciate the danger (for example, we owe a greater duty to children), the efforts made by the occupier to warn of the danger or to discourage persons from entering the premises (signs or fences), whether the occupier knew or ought to have known that the person was on the premises, and whether the risk was something against which the occupier should reasonably have been expected to provide protection.

What about trespassers and thieves?

The duties discussed above do not apply where the person entering the property willingly accepts the risks of doing so. The Act provides that a person is deemed to have accepted the risk where that person trespasses upon certain types of land including (among others) land primarily used for agricultural or forestry purposes, vacant or undeveloped rural land, recreational facilities that are closed for the season and roads that are marked as private and blocked by a gate or other structure. Persons entering upon the premises with the intent of committing an offence under the Criminal Code are also deemed to have willingly assumed the risk. In these cases, the occupier owes a lesser duty not to create a danger with the deliberate intent of doing harm to the person and not to act with careless inattention as to the presence of the person. Accordingly, we cannot go around setting traps inside our homes with the intent of injuring or harming a would-be burglar, nor can we simply choose to ignore the fact that trespassers are entering our property and fail to take reasonable precautions. "

Excerpted from http://www.daleydemont.ns.ca/pages/occupiers.html

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Cake]

Cats are urban terorrists. They kill thousands upon thousands of birds, small mammals, reptiles, and amphibians every year. People that own outdoor cats provide these animals with food but they still go out and kill, I ask why? The only answer I can come up with is "for fun". Wild animals hunt and kill when they are hungary and need food, not when their bellies are full.

I agree with M_surinamensis to a point, strays should be delt with in an appropriate mannar although I am hesitant to declare open season on them.

[marisa]

Annie- We are in a very similar situation. And I feel for you because we know all too well that male cat spray is the WORST smell and its literally impossible to remove it sometimes.

You'd think with scientists spending their time making glow in the dark fish that they could make some birth control for cats. I'd be putting it out in food every day if they had something like that.

Marisa

[Nicky]

I think this has a been a very interesting convo, first off happy to hear your sisters cat made a full recovery. At first i was mad that people would actually consider dealing with a problem cat but after reading on I understand what it must be like having to deal with the smell and constant invasion of cats. I personally love them as i have two of my own but do agree that cats should be kept in at all costs because not only do they destroy native wildlife but they can cost people alot of money. I also agree that it should be the owner that is delt with rather than the cat itself. Now if its a stray i think it should be brought into a shelter where it can either be adopted or humanly put down. There should deffently be more strict laws such as your cat gets then you get fined and if it happens more than three times( because everyone makes simple mistakes) the animal should be put down at the owner exspense and should not be allowed animals in the future, as the owner obviously isn;t going to keep there cat indoors. It dosen;t seem fair that when a cat runs lose or goes into someones house their hobby is bearly shaken but when snakes or lizards get out our hobby is put in alot of danger .It makes me very mad up at my cottage where people let there cats roam and then while were out herping we find them tearring up milk snakes and garters. The saddiest thing i ever saw was a 4-5 foot long northern water snake hanging out of my next door neighbors( up at my cottage) cat's mouth.
Just my thoughts
Kayla

[Rebecca]

I never posted this to start a agree/disagree thing about stray cats. I mainly posted it to vent how upset I was about a beloved cat being harmed my someone. And also how my 5 year old nephew was crying himself to sleep because his cat was gone and might not come back. I understand why some people hate "free roaming" cats. But I find it very insulting and rude to blame my sister. I believe that everyone has their own ideas but you wouldn't respond to a thread where someones lizard died because it escaped "oh well you knew it would die sometime besides you didn't look after it right anyway because it got out. It's your fault for not having a proper lock on the cage". And some of you have done that here. Maybe not qiute as mean but still mean just the same. If you wanted to start a debate about stray cats you should have done it in another thread.

[concept3]

to everyone who is talking about the live traps and all the other humane methods of getting rid of the problem i just have one opinion i would like to add. For the people who have cat problems, it should not be up to them to use their time/money/ effort to get rid of the problem. If you cant control your cat dont get a cat. plain and simple its not a debate its a fact. If you let your cat wander free or escape you have to realize everytime it goes outside it has the risk of dying, whether it gets hit by a car, killed by a dog, poisoned, accidental or intentional. You dont let your snake out to play in traffic, dont let your cat. Its a plain and simple fact

[bubba]

Me and my ole lady own 3 cats, down from 7. Most of the others died of old age, one was over 18. We never went out and bought any of our cats. They just showed up at our doorstep because most people don't get their cats fixed. The first thing we do when we decide to keep one of these cats is get it fixed, therefore no more strays, or so you would think. Right now there are 6 or more strays in our neighborhood. There would be more if we hadn't had "ours" fixed. I don't think cats should run free either but you you let them run free at least get them fixed whether they be male or female! Our cats are inside cats. Just my 2 cents.

[marisa]

Rebecca- Maybe the thread should not have gone in the direction it did but NO ONE specifically said it was your sisters fault, especially after you explained the cat is an indoor cat but escaped.

But you mention this in your original post: "That's so mean. I just don't understand"

So our replies are explaining A. why your cat might have gotten into posion. B. Why someone is killing the neighborhood strays in your area and C. While totally 100% wrong, why someone would start posioning cats. So you understand. It SUCKS what happened to your sisters cat, but then it also can be used to open peoples eyes to the very real problem North America has today with strays.

Marisa

[Rebecca]

Marisa:
I ment I just don't understand why people are so mean in general type thing. Being fed up with a cat spraying and that does not explain why they would be so mean. It was kinda just a question like why is the world so violent?? I didn't really want an answer. I know no one said specifically that it was her fault but post saying "it's the owners fault for their cat getting out and spraying in windows" (just a example) Implies that they think it was her fault. I know my posts might sound rude ( I don't mean to be) but I'm a little touchy when it comes to family (people or animals). I also understand that it may have started out answering that question but it has taken on a different angle from that.

[M_surinamensis]

You know... I did say it was your sister's fault and I stick by it.

There's a responsibility on the part of an owner to act in a manner which keeps their animal from becoming a danger or succumbing to a danger and your sister was negligent in this duty. It was a mistake, they happen... but it was HER mistake and it's upon HER head the guilt and culpability must lie.

Incidentally I would and have said similar things to anyone who has less than ideal practices with ANY animal. Snake got loose? Who's fault is it for not making sure the enclosure was secure? Lizard died? Well you shouldn't have been a F!@#$%in' idiot and caused malnutrition.

Your story about your nephew crying himself to sleep every night is very touching and loaded with human interest heart tugging but it does not change the fact that the owner of the animal was negligent in some small facet of their care and their animal suffered for it. It's easy to blame the evil neighbor who may or may not be doing this deliberately... How about putting the blame where it really belongs though? On the one who let the cat outside where it came into contact with something poisonous.

[WRX]

My cats are both outdoor cats. They were both strays, and will not stay indoors. They apperared on my deck one day, and now, 10 years later, are happy and healthy, although one getting pretty frail with age.
That aside, I realize they are in danger of raccons, traffic, dogs, etc. BUT....if someone is harming them on purpose, be it poison or physically harming them, that person is putting him / her self in danger of eating a fist.
Does one shoot a pigeon for crapping on thier car, or even more close to home, do you shoot the nieghbors dog after you step in his crap?
Get over it.

BT

[TheRedDragon]

That is so sad that such inhumane things are done to animals. I hope they find out who did that to your sister's cat and give the creep what they deserve. :mad:

[snakebite33]

Oh god, I am so sorry to hear about your sisters cat. I have a cat of my own, and if she were poisoned...
I probably wouldn't want to do anything but pray for her health and good will. If I were able to, I would probaby seek out her poisoner and badly injure him.

[Artemis]

YAY- my 2 cents time. Ive been watching this one for a while, as my neighborhood is absolutely OVERRUN with feral cats, yet I have 3 housecats that are my little buddies- Im gonna be one of those dotty cat ladies once I hit age 80.

Bottom line- DONT POISON CATS- not only is it against the basic animal cruelty law, but if you poison someone's pet cat that happens to be in your yard (there are no leash laws for cats here, nor in most places- only dogs) then they could sue the HEC out of you for vet bills, or worse if you killed their beloved pet.

Options?? Well- what IVE been doing is gathering up the MALE feral cats in the neighborhood and waiting for the St. Francis of Assisi SPAY AND NEUTER bus that comes around about once a month- you can take animals there and drop them off to be spayed or neutered for about 5 bucks a piece. I cant promise none of them are pets of people- but if you neuter a male he still has a little something down there usually- and more than likely their owners (if they have any) wouldnt even be able to tell.

Also- you can scoop up any animal on your property and take it to the pound or shelter if you have one in your area. They will care for and find homes for the cat if they are a no-kill shelter, or at least euthenize it humanely if it comes down to that.

This year I have already had more kittens than I know what to do with. The neighbors feel sorry for them and put food out for them so they stick around- but no one is actually willing to take claim them as a pet, which would mean spending money for shots, etc.

I don't condone the intentional killing of any animal simply because its presence is annoying me. And I know just how annoying having cats spray all around your yard, house and deck is.

What really scares me though is the fact that these cats traipse around unvaccinated near all the kids in the neighborhood. Little kids love to try and "pet the kitty." Fortunately most of the ferals wont let people get close to them.

I say, if you want something done right, do it yourself. If you need these cats to go away- scoop em up and have em spayed/neutered and re-release, or take them to a shelter. It isnt right to kill them because their natural behavior is annoying to you- and it may not be anyones cat that is in your yard, it might be a feral.

Also- way early in this post one person who said they worked in a Vet clinic or something mentioned a Cat Repellant???

Anyone know anything about that??? Id sprinkle some in my yard!


Art

[concept3]

its not natural because they should not be here

[Artemis]

?? Im sorry- how should they "not be here." I have ants in my house, too. But complaining they "shouldn't be there" doesnt really help with my problem much now does it. I didnt say their presence was natural (though some could argue that it also is) I said that their behavior was.

[concept3]

well, they call them feril because they were introduced. They have devistating effects on all bird species, frogs, snakes, and anything smaller than them. They are a pest. Just because their are no leash laws doesnt mean its ok to let them run free. And if you think its ok one day you will get a rude awakening

[Artemis]

No no dont misunderstand. Whether or not its "ok" is totally irrelevant is my point. Its too late for that- they have already been, as you said, Introduced. They are there whether they should be or not. So rather than wasting time arguing about the fact that its a problem, which ofcourse it is, not just for indigenous animal species, but for people too, we should work on a solution.

Im still waiting to hear about this cat repellant!

Art

[Artemis]

No no dont misunderstand. Whether or not its "ok" is totally irrelevant is my point. Its too late for that- they have already been, as you said, Introduced. They are there whether they should be or not. So rather than wasting time arguing about the fact that its a problem, which ofcourse it is, not just for indigenous animal species, but for people too, we should work on a solution.

Im still waiting to hear about this cat repellant!

Art

[M_surinamensis]

Extermination is a reasonable and realistic solution to the problem. While I said earlier and still firmly believe that poisoning is not a responsible method of doing so, because of the potential to kill species other than the intended target and I do not encourage animal cruelty- housecats are a bane everywhere they have been introduced. A foul, invasive, destructive species that propogates quickly and obliterates native wildlife. When a feral population has been established as a breeding group, it is not particularly effective to take one cat, have it neutered and then... what, release it again? Many need to be either contained and euthanized or, if initial capture is difficult (it usually is), they need to be actively euthanized whereever they are encountered.

Your house pet is your house pet... keep it in your house and it'll be fine. Let it loose to terrorize the surrounding area and there is nobody to blame but yourself if it ends up poisoned, hit by a car(unintentionally I hope), captured and euthanized by the local vet or shot as the menace that it is.

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by Artemis
Bottom line- DONT POISON CATS- not only is it against the basic animal cruelty law, but if you poison someone's pet cat that happens to be in your yard (there are no leash laws for cats here, nor in most places- only dogs) then they could sue the HEC out of you for vet bills, or worse if you killed their beloved pet.

True...despite the fact that there may b laws in place prohibiting wandering cats (as there are here), deliberately exposing a cat that enters your property to a toxic substance could cost you dearly (as it did a chap who mixed tuna with antifreeze here...$5000 plus legal fees).

[Artemis]

M suri-

Now I love my kitties that live in my house- and I hardly would call them a vile destructive species. Its not all THAT tragic. As a cat lover and enthusiast, I am kinda insulted by you saying that housecats are a bane. And mine do stay inside, but there are still responsible pet owners who vaccinate and sterilize any animal they allow outside, and Im ok with that.

As a herper- you would be tickled if you found snakes in your yard, whereas most people who had that would call the snakes a bane and run to the garage to get something to whack their heads off with (also not cool in my book.)

And yes, unfortunately extermination is part of the solution. In my neighborhood I scoop up all the ferals (male and female) that I can get and take them to the SN wagon. The only reason I feel comfortable doing so is that I have talked to my neighbors and know I am not having surgery performed on their pets, so im not worried about getting sued. The reason I suggested males for fed up people is because it is unlikey that their owners (if they have any) will realize this has happened.

Extermination can be performed humanely at shelters and pounds, as well.

While spaying and neutering a few cats may not solve the problem completely, as you are right, it would be veritably impossible to get ALL of them, it will reduce the number of breeding animals, and still HELP with the problem, even if not a foolproof solution. And yes, you can re-release them. I usually keep them in my spare carriers for a couple of days so they can heal up post op, and then i let them back out. I cant keep all these cats, but I am at least actively trying to improve the problem instead of simply spitting out complaints about the "menace" cats.

Extermination may indeed be warranted- but leave that to the shelters and pounds. If you take the cat to them, even if it is euthanized, it wont be in your neighborhood anymore. and hopefully- they can find a home for it.

[concept3]

Art, i dont see what is so hard to understand, those "responsible" people who get their cats neutered and all their shots are not responsible their stupid. They may not pose a threat to other people, Its the native wildlife they devistate, Its not rocket science keep your cat inside or dont get a friggen cat! A bullet to the cats head is just as humane as being euthanized at the vet. Poison is a cheep effective way to eliminate a pest problem.

[Artemis]

I dont care if its just as humane, im not that much of a dead eye myself, not to mention if you put a bullet in the head of someones pet, whether its presence is a nuisance or not, then you could be in big trouble. I personally wouldnt shoot an animal unless it was attacking me and I felt I had no other choice.

I agree with you to an extent, and my cats are strictly indoors, for their OWN safety. Cats are creatures who inhabit this earth the same as you and I do, and if they mess up your flower beds and crap in your driveway, that still isnt a license to blow them away. Call me nuts but I believe my cats have souls. They know when Im having a bad day, and they are smart as hell. My 25 pound neutered male can actually turn doorknobs and open doors.

I still say a spay/netuer and re-release, or better still taking them to shelters and pounds if you have them in your area, is a much better route to go than a .22

Poison is a CRUEL HEARTLESS way to eliminate a cat. These arent mosquitos here. And animals SUFFER when poisoned. Period. You make something suffer willingly, and your karma will come back to getcha.

and im done arguing about this. It appears that despite the opportunity to make a postive difference without being cruel, people arent willing to take that much time away from their decadent and selfish "dominant species" lives to take an active roll in humane and effective solutions. A pity. Hopefully by the time my kids have grandkids, cats wont be on the endangered species list, but with attitudes like that floating around, it wouldnt surprise me.

no hard feelings concept. I just dont think people have a right to run around killing things. Its the hippie pagan in me.

Art

[nita]

Here we don't have a program like you do either Art. Spaying or neutering is expensive. The fact that you can catch the feral cats in your neighborhood is impressive most run at the site of a person and personally I have better things to spend money on than live traps for other peoples pets that they obviously don't care about. We also have bylaws here that insist that your pet cat must be licenced which none of the ones running around here are so technically they aren't pets but wildlife. Also attempting to catch a wild cat who decides to bite is dangerous as cat bites are a serious problem, they get infected fast and can actually lead to amputation.

"A cat bite (Figure 33) is one of the worst infections I see, besides a human bite. If you get one, please get treatment as soon as possible. You will need antibiotics, possibly surgery. Recovery can be prolonged. Don't mess with this!"

http://www.handfixer.com/images/hand_images/s109-cellulitis-cat-bite_la.jpg

These are legal animals but this is what can happen from a little bite. Children inherently want to go pet kitties, they are common pets with most households having them but they are also dangerous not only to other animals but to humans who try to catch them.

[DiamondDave]

When I was living in Missouri I we shot every cat we saw. Funny there were always more, probably 10 for everyone that was shot. I believe 100% that cats are increasingly destructive to several species of birds and rabbits, virtually any small game. Cats are almost perfect hunters and most survive where other animals might not. Cats kept as mousers are just as likely to breed like crazy and start killing everything but mice.


What constitues cruel and where does conservation of other species come in? Poison is unnecessarily cruel but so is shooting if you suck at it. Why is it any more humane to have the pound kill them as to put a bullet in their heads? Have your chickens or rabbits killed when you've been paying to feed them for a while and it's a little easier to do.

[Dozer]

How you get rid of a mouse? Poison it.
How ya get rid of a cat? Poison it.

Western culture sees cats as house pets, most people have them as companions, some places, pests.

Life aint always the way you want it to be.

Simply put.

[Artemis]

I dont care. Its just not right to shoot something like that, on sight. And even shooting it is still more humane than poison, that just sickens me, and the shooting humanely only works if you are a really good shot, and are using the right caliber of pistol.

It amazes me how people can have so much love and dedication to one species and not another, and how perceptions vary so wildly among society in general about what kind of animals are a "pest" or a "menace. " I would think dogs kill far more children a year than cats- but I would like to see the stir if there was a thread about poisioning dogs.

For all you shooters and poisoners, pray reincarnation is merely an archaic dogma.

anyways- i love cats- and I think they deserve respect. Most herpers on this board love their reptiles, and feel they deserve respect, and are not a menace, but I feel about this just like many of you feel about people who run out in the backyard with a garden hoe to whack off the head of that snake in their yard.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again- Its all about perspective.

I really am done arguing now. No one cares what I say anyways, its not sinking in, so im not stopping any poisoners or shooters, and helping them understand what they are doing- its like reasoning with leatherface and the Sawyer clan.

Karma is real

Art

[Dozer]

its not about favoring a pet, i lvoe all animals, but i do realize that you cannot stop somethin' like this...

We keep reptiles as pets, whereas my mother would have no problem slicing a snake in half. I'm sure, if I was brought up in Texas, for example, I would have no problem blowin' a snakes head off or dumpin' thousands of rattlers into a pit and settin' fire to it. Dependin' on how you were raised, you have a different view. I love all animals, but then again I know life aint fair. A rattler here in Toronto is seen as a charm, in Texas, a pest. Fact is, its unstoppable. Not everyone is the same so lets face it, its unforetunate, but **** happens.

Ignorance will never be stopped.

Mike

[Dozer]

its not about favoring a pet, i lvoe all animals, but i do realize that you cannot stop somethin' like this...

We keep reptiles as pets, whereas my mother would have no problem slicing a snake in half. I'm sure, if I was brought up in Texas, for example, I would have no problem blowin' a snakes head off or dumpin' thousands of rattlers into a pit and settin' fire to it. Dependin' on how you were raised, you have a different view. I love all animals, but then again I know life aint fair. A rattler here in Toronto is seen as a charm, in Texas, a pest. Fact is, its unstoppable. Not everyone is the same so lets face it, its unforetunate, but **** happens.

Ignorance will never be stopped.

Mike

[DiamondDave]

I never take any joy in taking a life unless I'm in a tree stand with my bow. I hate running over animals also and avoid it whenever I have the option.

I 've got a question...Is it better to let them multiply as fast as they can or do we protect native species in our little corner of the world. Hard to find Quail in MO. with all of the cats, where do they cross the line from kittys to pests?

I don't mean any harm just stating my opinion. I respect the fact that some of you have the patience to deal with ferrel cats.

Anyway,
Take care,