Help! :P

[marisa]

O.k. I think I have what might be a situation here.

My female corn has another egg in there. (Egg 26) This egg is located literally AT THE VENT. It has been there for the past two days, she laid the other 25 eggs four days ago today. :(

I talked with a friend who has had females push out the last egg on day three after laying so last night I let her relax. Today when I hopefully checked for the egg, I found her with the egg in the same position. :(

I am REALLY worried now, can anyone give me advice on what my next move should be?

Marisa

[dave68]

try to gently massage/push it out, you could try to lube it a little with mineral oil first though. Just a thought hope it helps.

Good luck
Dave

[BoidKeeper]

try to gently massage/push it out,
No no No!
Go to the pharmacie and by a large seringe and a large gage needle. Either go in through the vent it's self and suck out the contents or if it's not that close go through the sking inbetween the scales down along the line where the side of the snake because the belly of the snake. The larger the seringe the less likely hood you'll have to go in twice. Once the contents of the egg have been sucked out the egg will colapse and be able to be passed.
Good luck,
Trevor

[dave68]

Boidkeeper
I was offering advice that has worked for me in the past, I did say gently.There is nothing wrong whith what you suggest,I personally like to try the least invasive methods first.

Dave

[Tim_Cranwill]

If you decide to drain the contents, like Trevor suggested, don't leave the egg inside her. Pull it out with some sterile forceps or pliers.

[marisa]

O.k. pharmacys sell needles? I thought they wouldn't that's why I didn't even bother going last night. I have read quite a bit about doing this and it has been on my mind.

I am going to go get this stuff like right now, and I am assuming this should be done A.S.A.P after I get the stuff?

Marisa

[BoidKeeper]

I did say gently
Gentle or not I've read that it is not a recomended practice.
Tim,

I've also read that the egg shell comes out but I think your added sugestion is a good one.
Trevor

[BoidKeeper]

I am going to go get this stuff like right now, and I am assuming this should be done A.S.A.P after I get the stuff?
Yup.
Keep us posted,
Trevor

[Tim_Cranwill]

But Trevor, I've DONE it (not just read about it) and it worked... I tried to massage the eggs out and it's TOUGH... and I wouldn't feel good about leaving an empty sac inside her. THAT would be hard for her to pass... IMO.

I had the best results with massaging the egg to the vent, draining the egg's contents with a syringe through the cloacal opening and then pulling the egg out. It's very easy compared to any other technique I've tried or read about. I see no way it can harm the snake when none of the egg contents would drain into the snake and the egg would be out of her quickly and painlessly.

Worked for me and both females have since gone on to reproduce…

Marisa, if I weren’t leaving for the evening, I would say to call me so I could talk you through it but it’s really very simple. Make sure you have someone to keep the snake still for you. :)

Good luck and let me know if you need anymore help. :)



EDIT: Sorry Trevor, I thoguht your first comment was directed towards me. :p After reading it again, I see it wasn't. :) oops. ;)

But my advice still stands. :)

[marisa]

K my boyfriend is picking up the supplies we don't already have on his way home from work right now.

I have him and another roomate to help hold, and I'll be doing the needling. :( I can't expect this will be easy as she is a huge corn.

I was wondering about a warm bath. Would this help at all? If it might, I was thinking of soaking her until he gets home. On the other hand it might just stress her out before the needle part of the process.

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

Marisa, just put as much of the snake as possible in a bag. It didn't seem to have ANY effect on the snakes while I did it. They weren't even clinching like when they get probed.... very easy...

Make sure your boyfriend gets about a 19ga needle and a 10cc syringe. The yolk is thick.

I'll be home for the next hour or so if you want to call me.
204-269-2502 :)

[Tim_Cranwill]

My experience...

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17264&highlight=bound+king

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18439&highlight=bound+king

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've had them pass is after 6 or 7 days no probs. I leave them alone for certainly longer than 2 days before I worry. It usually comes out with the next bowel movement. 2 days is no where NEAR the time to start worrying.

[marisa]

No, it's been four days since the 25 came out. I must have worded my post wrong.

You are confusing me Favelle. Now get out of this thread. LOL

Just kidding. I like your solution/idea more but now I am not sure if I should wait or go through with it. Still waiting on the BF to get home from work. She seems fine and is responsive, and angry. (but thats normal, she is not a 'friendly' snake at all)

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've found that they always pass infertile or bad eggs like within a week before and a week after all the good ones have been layed. I've never had to aspirate an egg. A python would be a different story though.

[BoidKeeper]

Best of luck Marisa.
Tim man, no worries, even before the edit I didn't take anything you said as anything to get in a state about.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Tim_Cranwill]

I waited about 10 days before I did anything about it but it was her whole clutch... she was on day 25 after her pre-lay. An egg was "right at her vent" for almost a week... but this is YOUR call.

Let us know what you decide, Marisa. :)

[gonesnakee]

Unfortunately I have lots of experience with eggbound snakes. The following are the steps that should be taken & in the order they are listed.
#1 exercise & gentle manipulation of the eggs if possible & yes this includes lukewarm baths (check the temp not too hot).
#2 Oxytocin & fluid shots yep this means the vet. fluids keep her hydrated & the Oxytocin makes her want to push. This & the above will work in most cases.
#3 Aspiration of the egg or eggs. This should be done only if she can't pass them on her own & whenever possible thru the vent. When you go thru the snake you risk a secondary infection that can kill your snake. Aspiration may be the #2 option in your case as the egg is located at the vent & can save a vet trip. Remember an egg that is leaking out inside your snake will kill it MUCH faster than one that is intact.
#4 Surgery, not a desired option & should not be required for this snake by the sounds of things

I have had snakes lay their last eggs upwards of 2 weeks after the rest & have had females push out the last infertile eggs from the first clutch with their second clutches upto 6-8 weeks after laying the others with no ill effects in either instances.
Something else that has worked but is not recomended is the offering of a very small meal. This will sometimes help but is more likely to hinder. I've had snakes pass their last eggs with the fecal matter, but you also risk bunging them up even more.
People are fast to start messing with them when sometimes its as simple as gentle manipulation & a few luke warm baths. Heck I myself wanted to aspirate my one snake on 2 separate occassions this season, but went with the vets decision not too & went with the Oxytocin only both times instead & was 100% successful by doing so. Having the eggs pass with some of the contents left inside the snake is not a desirable thing & shouldn't be risked if not required. An internal secondary would likely be a very bad thing & can be very real when aspirating thru the snakes skin. My opinion based on personal experiences anyway. Mark

[marisa]

Well if I did have to do the aspirating, it would be through the vent. The egg is so close the end of it is almost visible. It's also fairly obvious that she has no more in there, I feel and see only this one.

I am going to give her a luke warm bath tonight, allow her to rest after that, then tomorrow look at the situation again. And decide if I wait more, vet or the aspirating.

Marisa

[marisa]

Hi guys. Well last night I tried a nice (CORRECT) temp bath. I hoped the swimming and water would get things moving but no go.

The egg hasn't come out at all, and she is seeming a bit more "tired" and less aggresive. This bothers me since she is a very aggresive corn normally.

So tonight I will do the aspiration. It should be easy as pie since the egg is RIGHT at the vent and I won't need to make any holes that aren't supposed to be there. We got some good gauge needles and all the stuff we need.

I have another question though...this snake is big and a double clutcher. I have read lots about infertile eggs being harder to pass than fertile. But after all this I don't really want to breed her again??? But should I to try to ensure fertile eggs? I am unclear on what to do about the next clutch.

Marisa

[marisa]

Update

We just did the aspiration. It wasn't fun. She was very upset when we took her out initially. I had my roomate hold her tail end, my boyfriend hold her head while I was hoping to go through the vent.

The egg was further up than I thought so going through the vent was impossible. I ended up going through the side between scales like I have been reading when researching this. (Everything was sterile BTW) as SOON as I started removing fluid she calmed down like 100% and let us do it. I got a HUGE amount of fluid out of this egg but unfortuantly I could NOT get the shell out.

Now I am freaking because I am afriad this will hurt her more. The egg is now invisible in her, we couldn't massage it out, I couldn't get hemos in deep enough to grasp it safely without getting flesh and I wasn't about to press the issue.

Does anyone have ideas for my next step of action? Should this snake see a vet since I couldn't remove the egg shell? I am more than glad to take her at this point if need be. I am planning on cleaning her cage OFTEN, paper towel substrate as always and keeping the tiny wound clean. What else can I do at this point?

Marisa