Help!!!

[Sheldon & Tori]

our beardie has decided to stop eating (well, maybe he eats a little and we don't see him) and has lost about 20 grams in the past 2 weeks........is it common for bearded dragons to fast??? i know it's somewhat common for leopard gecko's to go through a short no-eating spell but not too sure about beardies......we will be taking in a fecal as soon as we can, but does anyone have any idea's as to what could be going on???

thnx,
sheldon and tori

[BoidKeeper]

What are you using for substrate?
Trevor

[ChristinaM]

Need more info :)
Temps, housing, substrate, etc.
Is he just refusing salad or insect as well?

[Sheldon & Tori]

i don't know the exact temps but i know they are good because he is spending about 50% of the time under the heat lamp (150W bulb about 6-8" from his log).......plus when we pick him up he is warm.....he is in a 65 gallon aquarium by himself.......for substrate he is on a sand substitute (crushed almond shells i think.....i bought the bag at petsmart).......we ruled impaction out last night when he took a fair sized crap on our carpet while we were cleaning his cage lol!.......he has a UV lamp which is only about a month or two old........we haven't seen him eat any bugs or veggies in a few days now, however, yesterday he decided he was going to eat the back half of a pinkie and throw the rest across his cage (that was really gross!) i hope this info helps you guys help us!

thnx,
sheldon and tori

[BoidKeeper]

i don't know the exact temps but i know they are good because he is spending about 50% of the time under the heat lamp (150W bulb about 6-8" from his log).......plus when we pick him up he is warm
This is part of your problem. Just because he sits there and is warm when you pick him up doesn't mean that your temps are right.
for substrate he is on a sand substitute
This may also be part of your problem. It may slowly be building up in his system causing a loss of appitite.
If you want to know if it's eating or not put a few worms in a bowl that they can't climb out of and count them.
Trevor

[ChristinaM]

I agree with Trevor on the temps. You need to know exactly how warm he is getting. You can get a cheap digital indoor/outdoor probe thermometer in Canadian Tire/Walmart/Homedepot/etc. The so called "reptile" ones are very inaccurate.

Generally a dragon spends 90% of his day under the heat. Because yours is only spending 50%, perhaps he's telling you it is too hot. Just from the bulbs I have going here, I have a 100W bulb 8" from the highest basking point, and I have to have it on a dimmer or it will reach over 130F. Not good. That tank is a 90g tank btw. I have a definate feeling yours may be too hot. Could be wrong.

The substrate is also not a particularly good one. If you like sand, just plain ol childs play sand is perfect. Small chance of impaction, but way better than the petstore substrates.

Basically, unless it is during the winter, it is not normal for a beardie not to eat. Especially when offered crix or worms.

[ChristinaM]

BTW: how old is the dragon?

[Sheldon & Tori]

the dragon is about 8 months old......and i pulled the thermometer out of our incubator (it's a digital aquarium thermometer w/ a probe) and in his basking spot it's 109 degrees......now from what i have heard, 113 is about average so his temps are fine according to what i've heard......we are pulling out the substrate tonight and replacing it with newspaper and we'll see how that goes

thnx for your help!
sheldon and tori

[ChristinaM]

Good luck :)

The only other thing that comes to mind is: without starting the dragon and pinkie debate, I'd have to say he's definately too young for pinkys, and could possibly be having trouble digesting it, causing him a belly ache perhaps.

Good move on the substrate removal :)

One other thought: is he shedding? Has anything new happened in his environment?

[Sheldon & Tori]

ChristinaM--->nothing new other than air pressure in the city as this past week the air has been really heavy due to steady rains......he's been eating pinkies for us for over a month and is just now refusing them......but like you said, no sense starting the debate.......i'm not sure if he is shedding or not as i've never seen a beardie going into a shed, just coming out of one.......plus his colors are really light so it's tough to tell if the old skin is lifting up or not

[gregandsarah]

I have been experiencing something similar. Mine had a touch of mouth rot which incrementally took away her apetite (she is 4 years old).

It was due to a sore mouth which eventually (the infection) spread to her lungs. As bad as this sounds we caught it early, got her to the vet who put her on antibiotics, raised her temp, went from a sand filled enclosure to paper towel, bleached everything (rinsed well) and she seems to be doing a lot better.

AS a voratious eater we sure noticed a problem.

My advise: try what you are at the moment but don't rule out a trip to the vet to check him/her's mouth for injuries or sores. Better to get it early Reptiles can have an infection for a long time before injuries show up.

Mine is still on the mend, her attitude is back but her apetite isn't. I try to keep her hydrated (I think this is important) using pedialite or diluted Gatorade within which I add a little calcium, and vitamine supplement (drip it over her nose in the bath -she loves it).

Also, 113 degrees seems a few degrees too high to me. Try for 105, 110 tops.

My opinion and experience take it or leave it.

[ReptiliansDOTca]

I would definitely consider those pinkies as a contributing factor to your problems. Keep in mind the word consider.

Generally a dragon spends 90% of his day under the heat

I will disagree with that, 90% is over exaggerating. Generally, desired temperatures for a dragon are set by the individual itself. Temperatures usually range between 95°F - 120°F. Keep in mind, age plays a big part as well. At eight months of age, I would reduce the temperatures to 100°F and see how that plays out.

As convenient as feeding pinkies are (you feed one item, rather then fifteen crickets for example), they are not good for your dragon. I will not get into this debate on whether or not they can digest them, but what I will say is feeding pinkies on a regular basis is definitely something to avoid. At most, I would feed no more then one per month.

I doubt shedding is a cause to the problem, but who knows. As for what to do from this point on, I will suggest a certain protocol. First, stop feeding pinkies, at least for the time being. Second, place a dish in the enclosure, with a known amount of worms. Include different species of worms, butter worms and silk worms for example. Monitor how much, if anything, he is eating. Do this for a week, and if there is no progression diagnostic testing through your local veterinarian is strongly recommended.

[ChristinaM]

Originally posted by ReptiliansDOTca

I will disagree with that, 90% is over exaggerating. .

Nope, I was not exaggerating. My dragons spend 90% of their day basking. The other 10% is spent eating and roaming. I'm a stay at home mom, so I have ample oppurtunity to observe my dragons :)

Sheldon&Tori: hmmmm. He's got me puzzled. Other than the temp and substrate, I can't suggest anything really. If he's pooping and acting normally, I wouldn't worry too much....but if he goes a few days without pooping, and still not eating, I'd get a little more concerned.

My largest female, went through a good month where she ate a whopping 4-7 silkworms during that period. Vet check after vet check proved she was fine. She starting eating one day, and is a huge pig LOL. Chalked it up to relocation stress. It took her a while to get comfy in her new home. Thats why I asked about the change.

Good luck, I do hope it all turns out ok.

[concept3]

well, i dont no foresure but i was talking to my breeder who had this same problem and it had to do with UVB. What type of UVB light are you using? is it in the cage or on top of the cage? if your UVb bulb is sitting on screen this instantly reduces it about 40-60 percent? If its going through glass about 99 percent. Ive got an 8.0 and its hanging inside the cage about 6 inches from his basking spot? I just hung it on the back of the tank with 3 of the big hooked suction cups. I hope this helped

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Christina, if your dragons are spending 90% of their time basking, you need to raise your temperatures. Also, I have never heard of improper UVB people the cause for a lack of appetite.

[ChristinaM]

Originally posted by ReptiliansDOTca
Christina, if your dragons are spending 90% of their time basking, you need to raise your temperatures. Also, I have never heard of improper UVB people the cause for a lack of appetite.

And why would I do that with healthy, happy dragons who breed wonderfully for me? Their temps are just fine and dandy thank ya. Oh and yes, I do check them regularly. I believe I do know a thing or two about what I'm doing. Thanks for the instruction, but I think I will pass on that one.

[Sheldon & Tori]

ok, well we tried some crix with him today and he went nuts! he ate three at one time lol! i put four super worms in his cage yesterday and today i noticed they were gone.....however, tori informed me that he has a tendency of picking them up with his tongue and dropping them outside the dish (i think he's some sort of animal freedom activist lol!)........the thing that concerns me the most is about an hour ago i got a phone call from tori saying that she noticed him trying to go to the bathroom but only liquid was coming out........she put him in a warm bath to see if that helped but he just swam around like it was bath day or something.......i figured that since he ate about 10-12 crix tonight that we would try him in a warm bath tomorrow night to see if he takes a solid poop......if he doesn't he will be coming with us to the vet when we go for our appointment on friday (we have a wild caught mali that has lost weight every week since we got him and this friday was the earliest we could get in to the vet) and in case anyone is wondering, no they've never come in contact and we wash our hands after handling him due to the concern of parasites or worms.....we'll keep you updated on his condition

thnx for all your help!
sheldon and tori

p.s. we've owned him since the calgary reptile show and in that time we've only fed him three pinkies, well three and a half after the last attempt, in that time frame as he was a little small for his age (at least compared to all the other ones that age that i've seen)

[ChristinaM]

Good luck guys :) With him not eating, the liquid doesn't worry me too much, see what he does, if he passes a pooey or not......then take him if need be. I hope he's alright eh. Let us know :)

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Maybe he is compacted / constipated then, with his history this is a definite possibility. Give him a long warm bath, and gently massage his stomach. Feed him pear, both the fruit itself and pear baby food - it works wonders in creating a bowel movement and relieving constipation. The fact that he is trying to defecate, and only fluids are portruding, make me more worried if anything.

Christina, you are taking my advice in the wrong way, I do not intend on including any attitude or negativity, I am just offering suggestions. It is my opinion that a bearded dragon should not be spending 90% of its time basking.

I always like to say that successful reproduction is not an indicator of proper husbandry, and all too often people assume that because they can produce fertile offspring, that the environment is optimal.

I forgot to mention, keep the temperatures nice and high, in and around 110°F, and up to 115°F. He will need these extra temperatures to help digest those pinkies. Take this as a lesson learned. However, and again, if you notice further signs of distress, a trip to the veterinarian is definitely, and strongly recommended.

[drewlowe]

There have been great replies so far so i won't comment on any of those, but i do want to add one thing.

If at any reason you think something isn't right, especially with decreased appetite, i would always take in a fresh fecal (no older than 24 hours and not refrigerated) to the vet. It cost usually around 15-20 bucks, for a piece of mind.

There are still other possibilitys parasites aren't always the cause, just wanted to add the possibilites of parasites. Sorry got to go dinner.

Jamie

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Very good advice Jaime! For $20.00, it is worth having the security that your lizard is parasite free, or in the worst case identifying the cause to your problems. In addition, it will help rule out a viable cause to your problem.

[DragnDrop]

I've removed some unnecessary posts to prevent any possible problems. Let's keep on topic, leave the hair colour and yippers out, okay?

Peace.

[ReptiliansDOTca]

For clarification, I am suggesting raising the temperatures to aid in digestion in the event of constipation, or something of the sort. Once the problem is over, reduce the temperatures to 95-100°F. You will know if your temperatures are too low if your dragon is spending all of his time basking, or the opposite if your dragon is spending little time basking.

[Capital Dragons]

Well I have to agree with David on this one. I have talked to many U.S. breeders about UV exposure.(this relates to time spent basking) I was asking witch UV light source they use. They said none at all. One of the top U.S breeder’s doesn’t use any of the different UV light sources out there. They supplement only. He showed me some babies he was rearing out side as a little experiment and all of the babies were in the shade. He said that they bask to raise there body temp and when they get to hot they need to cool down.

Therefore basking 90% of the day would probably mean that the basking temps should be higher but if the dragon is doing well and looks happy, why change things?

I haven’t read all the posts but I have an idea as for why your dragon is slowing down. Although 20grm’s in two weeks is a lot!

First get the fecal done. Rule out Coccida (sp?) and pinworms.
Keep in mind that in Australia there is a “winter” Dragons can instinctively slow down at any age. Think about a baby hatching out in June. By 3,4,5 months old they would be ready to cool down in the wild.

Also keep in mind that there are cold days and rainy days in the wild. Every once and a wile leave the lights out for the day. Even I would get tired of perfect weather 365 days a year and for 14 hrs a day.

Just my thoughts… =)