how long is too long?

[latazyo]

my baby ball python has not eaten since April 5th and continues to reject rats

the first time I fed the snake (march 24) I fed it an adult mouse and it ate it within 1 minute

the next time I fed (April 5) it ate a small rat immediately upon site

since then I've had no luck

I am beginning to think that I might be feeding improperly

what I have been doing is soaking the rat in hot water to heat it up, and then offering it to my ball

when I feed my snakes I pull them out and put them in individual feeding containers until they're done eating and then return them to their normal tubs on the rack

is all of that moving around freaking my ball into not eating?

everytime I offer a rat to my snake and she rejects it, I DO leave it in her original cage overnight with the snake after I return it to the rack, however she's never taken it over night

the past few times I've brained some pinkie mice onto the rat, but with no luck

how long is too long to hold out for rats....should I offer mice?

PS: as you may have seen from my pic post last week the snake is not skinny and has actually gained 40g and 5" since I acquired the snake 3.5 months ago

[snakehunter]

sounds like your doing everything right. some snakes do not 'mind' the moving from tub to tub. for the ones that dont like it i let the strike and constrict in their cage, and once theri locked on i move them, maybe that might help. one of my balls stopped april 4, and hasnt touched anything since, it angers me!

[Stockwell]

I once had a WC Togo ball for 2 years before it ate.when it eventually clicked in, it was gobbling up as many gerbils as I could find, then eventually it switched to mice. The year after it laid eggs..
Regius have very low metabolisms and can certainly go a low time without food, but some are also quite timid.
Why not try not touching or moving it around.
Offer feed just outside it's hide then switch the lights off and leave it for morning.
I always fed my Balls live food, back when I was breeding them... I found the movement and scent and correct target temperture resulted in quicker strikes.
While its true that CB Regius are far less fussy and usually dont mind wet cold non moving prey, for stubborn ones, never rule out trying a live mouse or young rat.. Keep your eye on them regularily though to ensure the prey isn't attacking the snake.

[lostwithin]

Hey, I would try not moving a ball, they tend too be very timid, your probably better off feeding where he lives. Other then that you seen too be doing it right. For my balls too eat f/t I have too "jiggle" the rat by the tail in front of fit’s hide and then the ball normally grabs it eventually. I wouldn’t worry so long as the snake isn't losing weight. With young snakes I normally cave and offer something small and live after a few weeks because I don’t want too slow their growth rate. It wont hurt too give a mouse too get it eating again, whenever mine stops I give one live mouse, this is just a snack for my big female and that normally will be enough too keep her feeding response up and shell eat again.
Good luck,
Devon

[BoidKeeper]

And offer at night after the sun is down.
Cheers,
Trevor

[marisa]

Everyones advice is good and I agree HUGE with not moving it. I don't see a point to doing that, and it can definitly lead to refusal.

Eight my female ball python just went 7 months without a bite. :)

Marisa

[sapphire_moon]

Maybe try this, this is what I do....

I heat up water in the microwave to make it REALLY hot. if you already have a thawed rat, put it in a baggie and put it in the water for a few minutes. Take it out and give it to the snake, the added heat might make it easier to see.

Also try dipping the head of the rat in REALLY hot (microwaved, lol) water and offer it to the snake dripping wet.

These got my female bp to eat rats, and she hasn't looked back since (though I'm sure she will, lol :) )lol

Good luck!

[latazyo]

my feeding procedure is as follows

1. around 6pm I remove frozen foods and put them in water in teh fridge to thaw
2. no earlier than midnight I put the hottest tap water into a container and let the prey heat up for 15 minutes or so
3. I take my snakes out and put them in their feeding containers under a towel
4. I then feed the snakes and return them under the towel until they've consumed the prey

I appreciate everyone's responses, but as with more responses come more questions

Stockwell: how do I properly restrain live prey? I fed my grey banded king a rat fuzzy that I had to get rid of (definitely not properly sized for the snake as it was way too small) and the rat as it was being swallowd continually scratched around the eye area of the snake with its rear legs....no damage was done to the snake, but with a small rat and my ball I can se potential for problems, so what do I do?

lostwithin: It seems that when I jiggle prey at my ball it just balls up and doesn't move...should I just keep poking at the snake for a longer time then?

marisa: the only reason I have been moving the snakes is because I read that if they're regularly fed in teh container they may bite when I reach in to handle or clean...I've only had about 4 months experience with snakes so if this is not true, please tell me as it would be easier to just feed them in their normal enclosures

sapphire: one time I thought the tap water wasn't hot enough for the ball so I tried microwaved water and my rat got so hot it expanded and it's bowels exploded and I wouldn't wish that smell on anyone...perhaps just try the head then?

[marisa]

Latazyo- Well you know some people really think it's true.

But since you asked for my thoughts, I'll give them too you. LOL. It's malarky. Here is my reasoning...

Let's say for a certain snake you open the enclosure 1 time per week for feeding, maybe 1 other time for cleaning and 1 other time for handling. That's only 1 out of 3 times the snake will recieve food. And if they were really THAT conditionable, then taking them out and placing them in a food container would just get them conditioned to bite when you remove them??? No it doesn't. So why would it work the other way around. :)

Another reason is I have found most bites occur when removing the snake from the feeding tub back to the cage. The snake is already in food mode and then you grab it.

And if you are using tongs, your snake should never associate your hands with anything to do with food. I have been feeding in the enclosure for 3-4 years now maybe and I have yet to be bitten because of this practice.

Marisa

[latazyo]

any advice on restraint of live prey?

[knads06]

My question to all of you is how the hell do i get my bp to eat for the first time. Ive had him since he was a baby and he's a lil over 5 weeks old or so and he still hasnt eaten a thing. Ive offered him live pinkies, frozen fuzzy mouse, and just the other day a live mouse and he didnt do a thing. He was more scared of the live mouse then anything. With the other two he approached them, took a couple smells then just turned away. He's turning into a stubborn ******* and im just starting to worry about him. He's gotta eat his first meal of his life at some point. He hasnt really lost any weight but i mean for him to grow he has to eat right?

[sapphire_moon]

lol, ok when you use the microwaved water thing. Squeeze the rat between your fingers, and if you can't feel any cold then it is fine. Don't let it sit long enough to cook!

You may want to try it again, but without cooking it this time! :)

[latazyo]

knads, if you read my 1st post, I went through a lot of the methods

jiggle the prey with the tongs, dip it in very hot water (bp's detect heat), leave dead prey in the enclosure just outside the snake's hide overnight, squeeze the brains of pinkies onto the rat to scent it like a mouse, etc

[Jeff_Favelle]

Also, water-thawed prey is often refused by Ball Pythons. Try heat pad-thawed prey. I get 60-80% better success when I thaw rats out in the reptile room or wrapped up in a heat pad. For sure.

[marisa]

Yeah I don't get much interest from any of my snakes if the prey is wet. Except my GTP. He is the least picky of all and it gives him an extra drink....lol... I always thaw out in ziplock baggies, using the hottest water that comes out of the tap.

Marisa

[lostwithin]

At times the water bothers my ball as well, if she's being fussy i place the prey ment for her in a ziplock bag then in the water with the rest.

As for jiggling the prey it's almost an art lol. You have too do it just right too catch the snakes attention without scaring it. Here are a few tips I find help, drop your prey in front of the hide (about an inch out), keep your tongs on its tail. Then slowly pull it away a tiny bit at a time. When your "teasing ", the rat shouldn’t be moving much at all just pull on the tail enough too cause a bit of movement too catch the snake’s attention. (Picture a rat sitting there chewing on something, I try too mimic what a rat would be doing if it were alive and un aware that it was about too be eaten. That’s how snakes hunt) . NEVER move the rat toward the snake, balls are VERY head shy, as soon as you move it toward the snake it will pull back in fear and never touch the snake with the rat , again its response would be too try and escape, if the rat were alive it would be chewing on the snake, so that’s what the snake ready for if you “poke it” with a rats head. Just be patient, SLOWLY move it AWAY from the snake, the snake may not seem too be noticing but they are ambush animals, it will slowly follow,(and some time they are very very slow) while forming the classic "S" pattern too strike.

Good luck, it can take some practice, basically anything you do that cause the snake too move away, don’t do it any more, once you get it right once its just repetition.

Devon

[latazyo]

well, he just rejected FK, I whacked the poor bugger for nothing...I'll leave it in there overnight and see if he takes it

thanks for the suggestions so far

[Stockwell]

Originally posted by latazyo


Stockwell: how do I properly restrain live prey?


I don't!! Snakes have been killing their own food for milleniums, and people worry far too much about this. For what it's worth, I've always used mostly live food for snakes and I still do, when I have it, especially for some Erycines(sand boas) what just wont feed of non moving prey.
I've had the odd scratch and bite through the years but nothing that has resulted in any serious injury and certainly not death..
I don't think twice about tossing live appropriately sized prey into healthy animals, as thats the way I've been doing if for 25 years.
However, with that said, I must stress that I never feed adult rats, and hamsters and gerbils,can be extremely nasty must be watched and never left overnight. I'd avoid those altogether.
In my case I had to use gerbils and hamsters for a period, because that is all older WC balls will take.
You guys live in a new world where CB Regius are widely available. They feed well and you wont be needing any gerbils for them. So young weaning mice should be the job safely

The horror stories often invovle adult rats left for prolonged periods with snakes that are sick, at improper temps or recent transplants that are not acclimatized, and in no condition to feed.
I suggest you observe live feedings until you have confidence your snake will strike, but when it does, don't worry about a bit of a tussle.Thats how it happens every day all over the world.
It can be tough to watch, but snakes know what they are doing or they'd be extinct along time ago.
Pretty much all Ball Python breeders start baby balls on live food, generally small immature mice or hopper rats. Such food never fights back, and is harmless.
Once your snake is eating regularily, for convenience start switching it to F/t simply because its more convenient to stock pile frozen feed.

[latazyo]

alright,I got him to eat a ft mouse today, I'll try a live rat later this week