Holdback normals - are they hypos??

[vanderkm]

I ended up keeping two corns from an unexpected clutch laid by our striped female we got last fall - no idea what the father was. I have had few people comment that they appear to be hypo and the male especially seems to have grey instead of black on the abdominal checkers. Not something I am good at determining by looking at them - but they do have very limited black edging on saddles and side blotches.

Thought I would post a few photos to get opinions - and because I think the babies are cute (whether they are hypo or not). Will be test breeding the mom to a ghost next year to try and determine whether she is het (or homozygous) for hypo.

This is mom -
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_Feb_15_Ruby_3_reduced.jpg

The male holdback (looks to me to be possibly hypo)
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_May_23_Colonel_23_reduced.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_May_23_Colonel_8_reduced.jpg

downing a hopper snack
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_May_23_Colonel_feeding_reduced.jpg

The female (I am less convinced of this one)
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_May_23_Thirteen_12_reduced.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_May_23_Thirteen_18_reduced.jpg

and feeding
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_May_23_Thirteen_feeding_1_reduced.jpg

mary v.

[MouseKilla]

Well I'm certainly no expert but I've seen enough normals to say that those appear to have very little black/brown coloration. As far as I know that's the definition of hypomelanism but I don't know if there are any other ways to tell for sure. Beautiful snakes any way you look at it though.

[Katt]

Nice corns!! I too have a male similar to your male that looks hypo, but I have ruled it out b/c there's a faint hint of those two black stripes that run down the backs of normal corns. I'm seeing a bit of that in your male, but it could be the pic.

That female is REALLY nice.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I can't tell you either. They don't look like the hypo I had a while back but they do look like they have less black. The last one you showed almost looks like a miami to me.

All very nice, whatever they are. :)

[MouseKilla]

Is there a strict, standard definition of hypomelanism? All I have heard is that it is an animal with reduced melanin. That's pretty open to interpretation, does that mean that it has to be inheritable?

It's one of the traits that are a bit confusing to me because of the seemingly subjective definitions attached to them. There are many others that I'm not sure about too like "black back" and "reduced pattern" in BPs. I'm never sure whether I just don't know enough about the particular trait in question or whether it's just a marketing ploy or even just a descriptive term.

[vanderkm]

Thanks for the opinions - Katt - the dark lines you mentioned are definately there - I noted them in many of the babies from this clutch - and wondered if they could exist along with hypo genes which are supposed to clean up that muddyness.

The only defination I know of hypomelanisitic is that the black pigment is reduced to a greyish or chocolate tone. All indications are now that there are at least three (maybe four) distinct genes that produce this trait in corns. If two animals both have the same type of hypo (for example two typical ghost corns) they will produce only hypo and not normals. That is why I am using a ghost corn to test breed the mother in this case. So the classic hypo is well established as a single recessive gene.

With the other hypo genes in the mix now it gets more complex. When you breed a type A hypo to a type B hypo you get normals - they do not recognize each other - so likely work on the expression of melanin in different ways.

I guess I will just keep an eye on these two - see what they grow up to look like. The female does have Miami like characteristics with a greyish background, but she is getting quite a bit of yellow infusion there, so I expect she will not retain that.

thanks again to those who ventured opinions,

mary v.

[Vanan]

Beauties all of them! Gotta love normals! Good luck proving him out! :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

There's a good pic of a striped hypo in the US Queensnake classifieds. It might help for your comparison.

Cool photos!

[PDDM]

Ok...i dunno how you would be able to sell that female i mean cmon shes gorgeous!And the male...He looks tough...You shouldnt give any away lol...here in quebec those would be a delicacy!Here we have like no corns cept ghost and they cost 110$ cnd

[Simon]

Nice shots~!~!