I though my friends Ball python had been bitten

[Forever]

Today I was watching my friends Python Jake feed and I mistook the blood of the mouse for the blood of the snake. Jake unusally missed the first, second and third time. In almost a year jake has only missed once. This mouse was able to jump incredibly quick, high and far. As a result of this I already had the thought that the mouse, being as aware of what is going on at this point as he ever could be, may try to bite jake if he was to be forced into it. When jake finally caught him it was about 2 seconds before blood began to flow from either the mouses mouth which was open and touching jake while twitching/what looked to be an attempt at biting.

I suddenly realized that even if he had been bitten, I don't know what to do or not do. So I was wondering if you could give me some information regarding anything that i may consider in preventing bites or what I should do in the event that he is bitten aswell as what i shouldn't do. Keep in mind that my friend does not want to change what he is feeding Jake .

[Jeff_Favelle]

Best way to prevent it is to not feed live. Dead rodents don't bite back.

[Forever]

Yes I meant to make that a point but instead wrote something that only makes half sense. My friend does not want to feed dead mice to jake. So taking that into account, got anything else for me?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Tell your friend to give "jake" to someone who will. LOL.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Yup.

C.

[Forever]

How terribly clever.........
Thanks for the help as you have been oh so helpful.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I am oh so happy that I could cleverly help.

[HeatherRose]

They are being helpful.

Feeding live prey to snakes is generally regarded as a bad idea...you should do your best to get the snake eating dead mice/rats...

if your friend bought it so he could watch it eat live prey, thats lame and he shouldn't have a snake.

[Jeff_Favelle]

if your friend bought it so he could watch it eat live prey, thats lame and he shouldn't have a snake.

TOTALLY!

[jparker1167]

I agree with jeff and punkuponastar. I used to feed my snakes live then i found this site and now i feed them all f/t its not only safer for the snake, your able to keep more feeders. check out bonzo's post in the general python forum page one called help help help please and thank you. hope this helps

[Lrptls]

bites and even parasites are usually the result of live rodents. beg your friend to get jake on pre killed and then FT prey. if he still doesn't want to, then be prepared for the worst, thats all i can say.

[BoidKeeper]

Also, balls should be fed rats not mice.
Trevor

[asphyxia]

You could also Pre Kill or Stun the mouse, then throw it in when it is still twitching.
B

[Tim_Cranwill]

Forever, just because you don't LIKE the answer, that doesn't mean it's not the right answer or that people are not being helpful. You won't find a more helpful and friendly group of people than the ones here. You just need to be able to accept the truth.

Tell your buddy to feed his ball python frozen/thawed rats. If he needs some tips to make the switch, he can check here...
http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/faq7.html

And...
http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/faq9.html

And if he's NOT going to switch, well then read the quote at the bottom of "BoidKeeper's" post... :)

[sapphire_moon]

Never feed live unless ABSOLUTELY nesecarry.

Here are some pics of what happens when prey attacks back.

http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/j/b/jbuncc/feeding.htm

These are only one set of pics, look up other ones they are all over the net.

As someone else said, if he bought the snake just to feed live, thats sick,pathetic and lame. I don't know anyone who likes to watch an animal die when it can be humanely killed, even if it is all part of "The circle of life". It is just something that has to be done to keep their pet healthy.

[daver676]

Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
if your friend bought it so he could watch it eat live prey, thats lame and he shouldn't have a snake.

Agreed.

[Forever]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
[B]Forever, just because you don't LIKE the answer, that doesn't mean it's not the right answer or that people are not being helpful. You won't find a more helpful and friendly group of people than the ones here. You just need to be able to accept the truth.

No, I pointed out very clearly that feeding dead mice was not an option right now. Instead of giving me information in any way he decided to make a smart *** comment that did NOT help me. It would seem that i just need to take such insults or unnesessary comments in return for your "help" As I don't doubt how helpful you are all capable of being.

You may like copping out behind such ideals of how helpful jeff was but it seems that not only are you not accepting the truth you are not even recognizing it. I don't mean to offend you but i do mean to point out what DID happen.

Jeff was helpful at first but once i cleared up the fact that i was aware of such options and that my friend does not want to feed his snake dead mice. He took on a different, more childish attitude. I was and am unappreciative for it. Jeff's second last reply only solidifies my thoughts of jeff.

To watch jake feed is not why he bought him.

Jake is also not ready to eat rats.

Either way I will tell my friend what alomst EVERYONE of you have pointed out in your post. Though I still don't think anyone has told me what to do in the event that he calls me up and tells me that his snake was bitten.

I thank those who helped me, those who honestly tried, aswell as those who realized that I was aware of such warnings and the reasons for such warnings.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I think you are kind of missing OUR point too though. When you see enough people come to these forums with basically the same scenario as you, and 80%+ don't want to hear the truth, it can get frustrating. If you put in the time and effort, MOST snakes will take f/t food.

Maybe you need to give us some more info...

- You say the snake is not ready for rats yet. Why not?

- You say feeding dead mice is not an opion right now. Why not?

- You also say your friend does not want to feed his snake dead mice. What the heck are we supposed to do about that?


In the event that your friend's snake gets bitten, clean the wound, put some polysporin on it, take the snake away from him and give your friend a GOOD HARD smack in the face... or bite him a few times on Jake’s behalf.

But again, just because you and your friend don’t like the truth, that doesn't make it any less true...

[drewlowe]

Why doesn't your friend want to feed frozen or even pre killed. Why does it HAVE to be live.

There are 2 main problems with live
1. Injury to the snake, possible death
2. Parasites


Not to say that frozen can't carry parasites but the risk is lower.

Live is not the way to go if it can be so easily avoided. No matter the response (how it's given, or interpirated) It's all the same, F/t is the way to go (if possible).

Jamie

[HeatherRose]

Either way I will tell my friend what alomst EVERYONE of you have pointed out in your post. Though I still don't think anyone has told me what to do in the event that he calls me up and tells me that his snake was bitten.

If the snake it bitten, all you can do is put some polysporin on it and take it to the vet, which results in costly vet bills and the chance that the vet might not be able to do anything for your snake.

[Forever]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
I think you are kind of missing OUR point too though. When you see enough people come to these forums with basically the same scenario as you, and 80%+ don't want to hear the truth, it can get frustrating. If you put in the time and effort, MOST snakes will take f/t food.

Maybe you need to give us some more info...

- You say the snake is not ready for rats yet. Why not?

- You say feeding dead mice is not an opion right now. Why not?

- You also say your friend does not want to feed his snake dead mice. What the heck are we supposed to do about that?


In the event that your friend's snake gets bitten, clean the wound, put some polysporin on it, take the snake away from him and give your friend a GOOD HARD smack in the face... or bite him a few times on Jake’s behalf.

But again, just because you and your friend don’t like the truth, that doesn't make it any less true...

You're point? You're point is that you get frustrated and as a result freak out when someone asks a simple and very defined question or that not treating me decently is excusable because you get frustrated? Then go on to defend yourselves for it with such conviction. I don't see any valid point to consider here.

Regardless of our frustrations in life we are still expected to handle things as decently as possible and I don't beleive that it was that hard for jeff or yourself to do so.

I know all about your frustration. I am very active and have been for along time on another forum. However, I believe that I have to deal with much younger people. Though you'll find the same frustration in almost every social interaction. I believe that you should act the same on here as you would be expected to in your everyday life.

You keep speaking of this "truth" Yet I believe that I have stated multiple times that i am aware of the truth, that i have never once said that the "truth" is anything but.

One thing I did say was that repeating it is not helpful. I am aware and I wish you would stop being so redundant in your replies. It is unnessesary and in fact counter productive. A large portion of the intent in my last reply was to show how unhelpful jeff was despite popular belief.

I also never said that you were supposed to do anything about my friend not wanting to feed his snake dead mice. I was just pointing out that what you keep repeating is again unessesary. Thats it!

The bit of information you managed to sneak in there IS however helpful. That is all I wanted in the first place.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Man, chill out. I don't know WHAT kind of magical answers you are looking for but I'm pretty sure they don't exist.

Peace out... I don't need any more up-hill battles in my life... though you seem to enjoy them. LOL

Later...

p.s. Thanks for the lesson is social values. I'll be sure to put them to good use. ;)

[djc3674]

Forever...I feed my snakes live prey also. I have a petstore right down the road from my house which is very convenient. I am not keen on keeping dead rodents in my freezer, nor do I have a whole lot of time to wait til they defrost.

Depending on what type of prey I am feeding (mice or rats). I will either let the snake do the deed or wack the prey item so it is stunned. Another way to help ensure that the snake is safe is handfeeding. By this I mean, take the rodent by the tail and lower it closer and closer to the hungry, ready-to-strike snake. I haven't had any problems with this method. I do this when feeding my large BCI jumbo rats. My snakes strike and bite the prey in the face, coil, and it's over pretty quickly. You should also make sure you are feeding appropriate sized prey items. A live rat that is too big for a snake will kill it.

Also, a good practice is to have a stick handy incase the mice/rat's face is free enough to bite. Then I take the stick and keep it's face away from the snake until it is dead. Generally, a nip from a rodent is not going to do much damage to a large boid, especially once it coils and the rodent can't breath or move. However, if feeding live it is imperative that you supervise.

[Forever]

I'm not looking for magical answers. I was and am quite content with what you finally gave me. At the end of my last post i said "that's all i wanted" "WantED" this is to imply that I did want. Perhaps suggesting that I want no longer. However what djc364 posted is exactly what i wanted.

I don't know what was included in my post to make you think that i was still looking for answers. It was nothing more than a debate about something you at one point seemed to believe quite strongly.

People find it hard to seperate the topic at hand and the argument that many people find themselves in whenever they say something without thinking.

Honestly, its sad but I do enjoy debate.
People don't realize it until they're are in too deep.

Also, djc3674's post is an example of the existance of those "magical" answers.

Note: I am not angry or bitter about anything. If I knew where the smiley faces are being hidden I'd use one.

[Forever]

djc3674: Thank you! You have been among, if not the most helpful person so far. I didn't want to double post but I wanted to thank you seperately.

[YummyCdnMale]

I think i know who the "Friend" is lolz .... kinda like when the druggie calls the drug hotline for a "Friend"

[Forever]

I thought someone might think that but no it's my friend jesse. I have no shame when it comes to asking for help. Nor should anyone.

[djc3674]

no problem dude

[Forever]

I was just wondering for those of you who suggested "stunning" the mouse, how exactly do you go about that?

[Vengeance]

Whack it, but don't whack it hard enough to kill it, only stun it.

[BigBadBlade]

Also Forever this could be a solution to use as an absolute last resort (I don't condone it or agree but it is helpful)

I had a friend with an Albino Burmese Python that feeds it full sized rats Live but what he does is deteeth them (Takes plyers or something, I haven't witnessed him doing this, and pulls the teeth out so that the rat cannot bite back) It seems to work very well for him his snake has never been bit.

But i would say at a later date when your friends snake matures more i guess i would tell him to try and get him on PK in the least. Hope this helps

[Forever]

He was thinking that. He as the stomach for it but i sure don't.

[Ryan and Katie]

Originally posted by BigBadBlade
I had a friend with an Albino Burmese Python that feeds it full sized rats Live but what he does is deteeth them (Takes plyers or something, I haven't witnessed him doing this, and pulls the teeth out so that the rat cannot bite back) It seems to work very well for him his snake has never been bit.

That is sick! I don't agree with live feeding unless necessary. It is people like that who give snake keeping a bad name. That has to be the worst advise I have ever seen on this forum! I don't like rodents but I would never make them suffer like that....
UNREAL!!!!:mad:

[BigBadBlade]

Like i said I don't agree with it just trying to help out forever as a last resort. But my friend said the pet store owner is the one that told him how to do it and showed him a way which is the least painful for the mouse/rat (which i don't even see how that would be possible) I've been trying to get my friend to convert to PK or FT

[sapphire_moon]

Pulling out the teeth of the mouse/rat is inhumane! Lets rip a few of your friends teeth out and see how that feels!

If you INSIST on feeding live, do so responsibly. Feed live restrained (holding the body and head of the mouse/rat with tongs)

DO NOT hand feed, that is ASKING to be bit by both the snake AND the mouse/rat. The rat can easily cimb up it's body and bite you. Belive me, I had a 1lb rat climb up it's body and come close to taking a BIG chunk out of my thumb. I thought he was to fat to do that. Guess not. (it's also called a SFE, Stupid Feeding Error)


Jeff was just stating the obvious for the care of this animal considering that your "Friend" sees feeding f/t or f/k as NOT an option right now.

feeding f/t or f/k is ALWAYS and option for the health of your snake.


as for not keeping f/t rats in the freezer, i'm sorry, get over it, put duct tape around the bag so you can't see the rats.

Especially if THAT is the only reason that your not feeding f/t.

[BigBadBlade]

Hey I didn't say I did it I personally feed my pythons FT well most of them my larger one only takes PK... But yeah if i have any takers to pull my friends teeth out Go right ahead, He's a cruel butt anyway

[djc3674]

as for not keeping f/t rats in the freezer, i'm sorry, get over it, put duct tape around the bag so you can't see the rats

Nah..I'd rather not, but thanks for the 2 cents. I also stated that I do not have the time to wait around for a jumbo rat to defrost. My schedule is quite hectic and I'd rather just stop by the pet store when I have time, pick up what I need and feed em when I get home.

DO NOT hand feed, that is ASKING to be bit by both the snake AND the mouse/rat. The rat can easily cimb up it's body and bite you. Belive me, I had a 1lb rat climb up it's body and come close to taking a BIG chunk out of my thumb. I thought he was to fat to do that. Guess not. (it's also called a SFE, Stupid Feeding Error)

You take the risk of being bitten when live feeding regardless weather it is by hand or not. I have not one time had a problem when handfeeding. I hand fed a jumbo rat to by large boa yeserday, as well as a small/med rat to my Hog Island, this was his biggest rat yet and he took it perfectly.
By no means am I saying it's a fool proof method, but it works for me.

Alot of the PETA loving/vegatarians are against live feeding, well too damn bad. I've seen so many people say how inhumane live feeding is. WHATEVER!! I feed live, yet I dont type out against feeding f/t or p/k. As long as the person is responsible and takes the steps necessary to make sure the snake is not harmed, then it shouldn't be such a big deal.

[Forever]

Originally posted by Ryan and Katie
That is sick! I don't agree with live feeding unless necessary. It is people like that who give snake keeping a bad name. That has to be the worst advise I have ever seen on this forum! I don't like rodents but I would never make them suffer like that....
UNREAL!!!!:mad:

Holy ****, this guy gave me another option....LIKE I ASKED. Instead of being unhelpful like the so many of you. He never said that he liked, prefered or agreed with this option but stated that as a last resort, in the case that my friend Jesse continues to feed live he may want to use this for the saftey of his snake.

I can't beleive that you flamed one of the few people who responded appropriately.

I can't beleive that people are still trying to argue with me over jeff. I thought i had made it quite clear that he was not being helpful......AT ALL. If you actually think you are right then offer a valid point.

As i was the one who asked the question and was also the one who got nothing positive or helpful from his replies, I think I am in a pretty appropriate position to say that he was NOT HELPFUL!!!

What exactly makes it "necessary" to feed live?

I've been wondering this since you guys brought it up.

[jwsporty]

What makes it "necessary" to feed live? THAT is when you have exhausted all other possibilities.

Did you even try any of the following?

Feeding at different times of the day?
Hot heading or braining the prey?
Confining the dead prey and snake in a small box for feeding?
Body bumping?
Feeding a small live item and then following it up immediately after with a larger dead prey?
Did you check the temps in the enclosure to make sure they are even in range?
Did you try taking it to another house and trying these approaches there? Sometimes a change in location can help.


There are many strategies !!!

Does your "friend" even own a good book on ball pythons? or for that matter does "he" care.

If he can't find the time to try different methods, then he must make the time. If he won't make the time then he doesn't deserve to keep this animal or he doesn't have what it takes. Like many on here, people will make mistakes, myself included. However, people come here to get the answers. Personally, I keep over 40 animals and I don't consider finding the time an option..I CONSIDER IT MANDATORY...!!!

Breaking the rats teeth...do you seriously think this is going to help? How the heck do you plan on restraining a pissed off rat to remove every tooth in its head. Do you think the rat or mouse can't do damage with its nails? LMFAO....


Reading S**t like this burns my A$$.

You came to the forums asking for help and you got the RIGHT answers. People like Jeff and Tim, but not limited to these two, are fine knowledgable people, and they only have the well being of the animal in mind. People like them have been doing this a hell of a lot longer then many on this board. If you didn't like Jeff's answers then maybe you should have elaborated on his responses.

Bottomline you want to hear an answer that suits you or your "friend". What's the next post gonna be "Help !!! My "friends" ball python, just got chewed apart. What do I do NOW?"

I feel sorry for the snake, and I hope you or your "friend" have cash put aside to get it fixed up, cause it is gonna cost a bundle WHEN it happens. Or please don't tell me you will just look at this as a bad experience and simply throw the animal away.

One more piece of advise..lose the attitude..people are here to help you!!!

Jim

[DragnDrop]

Just to clarify something. I know for a fact that "Forever" does not own the snake in question, it is owned by a friend of his.

The original post was to get advice about help and 'first aid' for the snake in case it should ever be bitten by live prey. He himself is in no position to change the way the snake is fed, but he can get some info to try and convince the owner to change to a safer feeding method. He's just the messenger in this case, no need to shoot him.

Peace :)

[Forever]

Did you even read my posts? I'm really not sure where you got all these ideas or why you thought it would be a good idea to make all these assumptions but you are quite off.

I was simply curious as to what you guys meant when you were saying "necessary" I was guessing that it was when all others options fail but i wanted to be sure. There was no "attitude" intended on THIS part.

"Did you even try any of the following?"

NO! If you would have read my post you would have known that I/ my friend would not have tried any of those as he never had any problem feeding live and that he never wanted to feed any other way. So why would he try any of those? As i stated in my first and many posts following, he doesn't want to feed his snake dead mice. All other possibilities are what i came here for.

"do you seriously think this is going to help?"

I never said that it was going to work or that i was agreeing with it as an appropriate method to avoinding injury to his snake. Though it is obviously working for someone else.

"Do you think the rat or mouse can't do damage with its nails?"

I also never said that the nails wouldn't do any damage but the damage is considerably less in comparison. Regardless I still don't agree with this method nor would I suggest or need to suggest this.

"Reading S**t like this burns my A$$."

Your ignorant assumptions are what burn my ***.

Jeff gave me answers that I clearly stated I was already aware of and was not looking to have repeated to me.

I never said that those were the wrong answers. I simply said that they were not what i was looking for and that they were not helpful because i already knew this. They were not options. Jeff didn't help me in anyway. That means he was not helpful.

"If you didn't like Jeff's answers then maybe you should have elaborated on his responses."

I don't know what you mean by this. I can only say that if you look it would appear that jeff had no real interest in helping me. I mean after his inital post which wasn't even helpful in the first place. Though, it was not his fault as i had not defined the reason why it was unhelpful.

"Bottomline you want to hear an answer that suits you or your friend."

Of course!! Am i supposed to be here looking for answers that suit you? I am here looking for an alternative so that it may be safer for the snake but so that Jesse doesn't have to feed it dead mice. As he doesn't want to.

"What's the next post gonna be "Help !!! My "friends" ball python, just got chewed apart. What do I do NOW?"

NO! As I have the hope that through all this crap I may be able to suggest a few different options in which I'm hoping he may take. Otherwise all of this would have been pointless.

People may think they are helping be but alot of them have NOT!!! Like yourself.

If you hadn't been so arrogant with no apparent intent but telling me off(at least not any intent as apparent), you may have been able to, read, understand, and consider what i have already said numerous times. PLEASE, save us both alot of time and read what I have written here.

[rwg]

I know you're just the messenger, and I dont mean to come down on you about it, but I'll tell you why this thread irks me and probably others. You say your friend doesn't have a snake just to watch it eat live prey, but on the other hand, you say dead feeding is not an option. The only reason you give is that he doesn't want to. Doesn't want to? What kind of reason is that? How often does he have fecal exams done? Live feeding significantly increases the odds his snake is going to get internal parasites or feeding injuries, and the only reason given is he doesn't want to.

This thread is pissing people off because your friend acts on his whims rather than on the best interest of his snake, and you dont seem to want to hear it. I hope you got all the first aid advice you need. Even more so, I hope your friend will "want" to take his snake to the vet when/if it gets injured, and I hope he'll "want" to have regular fecal exams done.

By the way, I cant figure how feeding live takes less time than feeding thawed. That doesn't make sense to me. You can stock months worth of frozen, cutting pet store trips down almost to nil. Thawing takes a minute to toss one in a bucket of hot water...go do your own thing, come back in 20 minutes, and it's done. You really going to tell me you're not home for 20 minutes once a week? Plus, you dont have to monitor the feeding. If you're in a hurry, toss it in and walk away. Maybe if you have your own colony of feeders it's quicker but...

rg

[Tim_Cranwill]

Forever, I don't know why anyone would want to help you or you friend. <b>You are rude and ungrateful!</b> You ask a question, get some answers and feel you have the right to tell people their answers are not helpful.

I'll tell you what, the answers you are looking for would have taken you, oh.... 20 seconds of logical thought to find. Apparently you are so smart, so stop wasting space on this forum with your rude attitude and childish responses. Tell your friend to take the 20 seconds to think about the problem HIMSELF!

"<i>NO! As I have the hope that through all this crap I may be able to suggest a few different options in which I'm hoping he may take. Otherwise all of this would have been pointless.
</i>"

All of this <u>is</u> pointless, so spare us the useless dribble...

[jjnnbns]

This guy is ridiculous! It's like he's asking for someone to tell him that 2+2=5, and when everyone on here tells him that he's looking for the wrong answer, and inform him of the correct answer (4) he just gets defensive and claims that no one will tell him how to get 5 out of 2 plus 2!

I can't tell if this makes me ge angry or almost just laugh, either way it is extremely annoying how ignorant some people may be.

Forever, think of it this way: If you were asking the most humane way to , say, kill a human, you probably would be told repeatedly that it is wrong and shouldn't do it. Would you then go on to criticize everyone for not giving you the answer you want, but instead the RIGHT answer?!?

[BoidKeeper]

This is going no where.
Thread closed.
Trevor