non-conventional substrates (yet another substrate question)

[Bristen]

just wondering if people use different substrates than the convential ones... I would consider the "convential substrates" as being the following:

a) newspaper (old newspapers, pelletized, CareFresh, etc)

b) aspen (chips, shredded, ripped, etc)

c) orchid or cypress barks (nuggets, mulch, etc)

I can't find reasonably priced bark suitable for snakes in my area. I have been experimenting with a few substrates recently (shredded aspen, fine and not so fine, newspaper, pelletized newspaper). So far I have found that the pelletized newspaper works best for both cleaning, humidity and feeding the animals on it. I however don't like the cost on the stuff. I was wondering if pelletized alfalfa (aka rabbit food) would be ok for Ball Pythons? Similar to pelletized newspaper but way cheaper... anybody using it or experimented with it?

Thanks,
Bristen.

[Ron]

I'm not sure but I think alfalfa molds very quickly if it gets wet. I use carefresh for all my BP's; it is quite expensive but I think it's worth it.

[mykee]

The thing is, with the 'conventional' substrates, you know what you're getting and with anything that you want to try, you would have to do the whole trial and error thing, which may end up stressing out your animals.

[Bristen]

You know what you're getting with the "conventional substrates", this is true. However, I currently can't find substrate that I can get easily, affordable that does a few critical things for me:

a) need to be able to spot clean (this rules out used newspaper)

b) I want to be able to feed the animals on the substrate (not liking the aspen I have here so far... either smelly or too much of it gets swallowed in my opinion)

c) not get moldy in high humidity conditions

so, I guess the search continues... so far the winner is pelletized newspaper, hands down.

Thanks to those that replied so far,
Bristen.

[Vengeance]

I'm with Ron, I use carefresh and I really like it, I don't find it overly expensive, but compared to newspaper which is very cheap I can see how it could be expensive.

[mykee]

Bristen, I find unprinted newspaper stock cheap, very easy to clean, easily fed on and never gets moldy. JMO.

[marisa]

Paper towel meets all those criteria and more. As well as unprinted newspaper like Mykee suggested. I use paper towel for all my snakes, corns, kings, balls, the GTP, all of them. Works great! :)

Marisa

[Bristen]

maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but here's why I don't like newspaper... when it's time to clean, the tub is all greased up and newspaper sheets are large.. so when it's time to clean, I have to take the WHOLE substrate out, clean the tub that's greased up with urates and defecation and place new substrate in.. this in general is 15 to 20 minutes minimum for my tubs (had to do this recently).

with particle substrate, cleaning is a matter of SECONDS.. spot clean the areas affected.. mess is very local, tub basically always remains clean, and only have to replace one little spot of substrate... I can clean all my enclosures when spot cleaning particle substrate in the same amount of time I can clean one single tub that uses old newspapers.. I don't know if any of the big breeders use newspaper.. I think they all use particle substrate. There's probably a good reason for that?

This thread was not intended to be a "my substrate is better than yours" kind of thing, so I'm not saying newspaper is not good. It's great! I've used it for years, but I would really like something that would be more time-efficient now such as some kind of particle substrate.

Thanks for the replies!
Bristen.

ps: is "CareFresh" similar to "Yesterday's News" (pelletized newspaper)?

[Jeff_Favelle]

don't know if any of the big breeders use newspaper.. I think they all use particle substrate. There's probably a good reason for that?

Ralph Davis switched everything off of particle substrate to unprinted newspaper this year.

[Bristen]

really? That's interesting.. why would Ralph do that? Did he post anything on this subject on a forum or his web site somewheres? I'd be interested in reading about why he did that, etc...

I wish I could get affordable bark like you're using Jeff, but it's just not possible to get that around here unless you pay good money for it an Pets Unlimited or something... only bark I can find around here is pine or cedar, nothing else is available... where do you buy your stuff? This substrate thing is driving me bananas.. I'm in the "trial and error" mode, and I'd like to get out of it... I think pelletized newspaper will be the route we will take for the next little while it seems.. it's a little pricey, but not too unreasonable.

Thanks for the reply,
Bristen.

[marisa]

I don't like particle substrates because I find them messy. But this is a human problem not a snake problem. LOL. I get aspen or whatever else I am using EVERYWHERE in my herp room during cleanings LOL. :)

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/interactive/journal/archives/mar-04.asp

half-way down on March 23rd. As for "why" he's doing it? I don't know. Ask him. I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you why.

[jjnnbns]

I used to use aspen and not only was it messy leaving small chips everywhere when cleaning, but you still need to replace all of the particle substrate every so often, and that takes a VERY long time. I have only five cages, but all have newspaper (actually one has outdoor carpet) and all that you have to do is pull the hides and roll up the paper. Spray it down and fresh paper laid down takes another, what, 10 seconds?

I personally think that newsprint is the fastest and cleanest method to use (not to mention cheapest!)