Is it legal to keep caimans or alligators in Oklahoma?

[creepiecrawlie]

Hi I was curiose if it is legal to keep crocodilians in Oklahoma. I have been wanting one for 5 years but never had room but now I have 80 acres to use. Also what is the website that tells you about keeping crocodilians? I thought it was www.crocodilianpage.com or something.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

If it's Mason's and Britton's site you are looking for, it's Crocodilian.com.

As for keeping alligators, Oklahoma no longer gives out state permits for keeping alligators to new keepers, so no it's not legal to have them here.
As for the other crocodilian species, assuming your county/city/residential area/ect. doesn't have a ban on them then you may keep them. If your animal needs Cites/ESA/USFWS import-export/USDI/APHIS or any other federal paperwork, Oklahoma requires that you show the proper documentations to them. Also, if you buying from out of state you may need to have an import permit, especially if the animal is capable of surviving Oklahoma seasons if it were to escape.
Anything specific on what you're getting?
Xain

[creepiecrawlie]

I am knew to it so most likely a dwarf but those are endangered. Specatles (not spelled right) get about ten feet. Do you know those Diamond Caiman on ************** that where bred to be captivity? I am thinking of those to. Do you have any suggestions on a good beginner crocodilian?

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

To bad I'm moving in 10 days, would love for you to come down and try you hands out with several species of crocodilians so you could get the full effect of keeping one and to see how they handle.
Unless you can come down before then?

Dwarf caimen are CITES Appendix II, so Paleosuchus are legal in trade. I actually know a guy in Tulsa selling Trigs. and Palps. so if you'd like I could get his email. I have chated with him from time to time and seems to be a well sought out person but I have never bought or seen his animals so I can't vouch for him. Also, he works with hots so if you're still interested you can maybe talk to him about training, since I'm moving.
Paleosuchus, in my opinion, are not a good choice to start out with unless you are a very determined person. Dwarf's though small are a very feisty animal, you can expect a good fight coming from them and their osteoderms are not really easy on the hand.
Bad choice if you ask me.
Colin has an excellent site about Paleosuchus that's linked somewhere in Crocodilian.com, check it out if you get the chance.

Male Spectacle caimen usually stay within' a 6' range and the females are sure to be smaller. Their attitudes aren't much better but I personally like them more. Even though Specs are not endangered, If you plan on buying or trading for a spectacle you will need an ESA permit if you plan on bringing the animal into the state. If you do not, you'll be violating the Lacy act which is something USFWS take seriously. You can buy within the state of Oklahoma and not worry about anything, or to avoid getting ESA permits for state lines you could say-have the animal given to you.. How you go about that is up to you, though it is good to be honest.. Isn't it? As far as I know, I think I am the only one breeding them in Oklahoma but I think Bryan from OKC has done as well. He owns Alligator Alley (Pet store) and is a very funny guy. We've gone hunting together looking for alligators on the East side of Oklahoma. His site is online so just google.com it.

Now.. Diamond caimans..
As I've said before, you have to look at the species that are in the bloodline. Yacares get to be a good 8 feet or so and Specs reach about 6'. You should think which traits this particular caiman is going to be dominate. Also, why get a hybrid? Its just screwing with purebreds and I'm sure the main reason for it is because they are a loop hole to ship cross state lines without permits, such as Siamese crocs and Salties or Cubans and Salties.. Mitch claims that these particular animals grow to be adults at about 4'-6'(So do pure breds) However, he also states that this is the 2nd time it's been done and I remember not to long ago him offering them as the first ones to have been hatched. Now, I don't see what he bases his size opinions on being that they haven't even been around long enough to reach adulthood. He also, claims that these guys are 'tame' but every person I've came in contact with, normally reselling, claim they are just s feisty and caiman like.
Seller's pitch. I personally wouldn't waste my time in setting out to get one, I'd take one if it landed in my lap because, it is a croc. Just not my thing.

Personally, on the ol' 'tame' factor I would work with getting a female American Alligator. Most stay under 6' and most alligators are very docile animals. This will help with handling and if it's a size factor it will help with that as well. Now, if neither are a priority, I would tell you to go with the animal you want. Can't substitute one animal for another, even if it is in the same Family. But a female American Alligator is most likely your best bet on size and attitude.
..Ok, after writing this I just realized I'm an idiot. Being you can't have American Alligators in Oklahoma. (I'll leave it for other readers) On temperment you're pretty much S.O.L. my friend, unless you're lucky and get hold of a calm specimen. As for size, I would suggest a female anything being they grow to a smaller size animal than a male. Just get a specimen that catches your eye and work with that. Buy it young, this way you will grow with your technique as it grows bigger.
I do suggest you stay clear from Nile crocodiles (And other insanely large crocs), being the females get huge as well and it wont be a one person ordeal.

Hope this all made sense, I haven't slept yet..
Xain

[creepiecrawlie]

I didn't know that alligators are prohibited to keep here. I know some people who have them and a couple of months ago they where selling one at a reptile show. What I understand so far is that I can get a caiman here in Oklahoma and not need a permit or did I read it wrong.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Yeah, Alligators are a state protected animal.
Yup, all of the caimen you see forsale in classifieds you are allowed to own, and if you buy Specs in state you are legal.


http://hometown.aol.com/reptilefreak18/images/male%20caiman.jpg

[creepiecrawlie]

I probably sound like an idiot saying this, but. Okay if I purchase a spec. in oklahoma I don't need a permit for anything?

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

If you buy in state, you will be exempt from needing permits.

[creepiecrawlie]

Thanks! By the way are you reptilefreak on kingsnake? IF you are that is one huge croc in the pool you have. Isn't it a saltie?

[creepiecrawlie]

Also do you have any caimans or do you know anybody who has caimans that whats to get rid of them? I am so sorry but what caimans do you not need any permits for beside the specs.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I am Zane, Reptilefreak18, and Reptilefreak19

Everything I own are 8' and under. The two Large porosus belong to a friend of mine in Texas as do the animals in the "Color variety" pic. The yellow porosus pic belong to Ralf, which I added onto kingsnake for some reason or another, I've been wanting to take it off but I forgot my password to that name, so yeah it's stuck.
I wish I still had my passwords for my other names, there's several pics I would like to take off of Kingsnake being I do not need them any more..
As for that, Everything else is mine.

I personally do not have anything that I am getting rid of.
Sean Palmer seems to have Dwarf and Smooth fronts forsale from time to time. You can see about emailing him. He normally posts in the venomous section on kingsnake.
Bryan Swinney from Alligator alley(OKC) may still sell dwarf and smooth fronts as well. OKC has a ban on crocodilians and large constrictors so I'm not sure if he does or not anymore. You can email him at Bryan@AlligatorAlley.com

Assuming your city ordinance doesn't have laws against keeping crocodilians, you are allowed to have Both Paleosuchus species in the state of Oklahoma without permits.

[creepiecrawlie]

So I could put a want add saying "wanted, any unwanted dwarf or specatled caiman (must be located in oklahoma)"

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Yes. (You can buy Dwarf/smooth caimen outside of state.)

[creepiecrawlie]

Would you need a permit for a smoothfront caiman. There is a 10 incher on Reptibid that I like a lot. But at the same time there was a permit for buying out of state (wasn't there).

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

The permit is only for Spectacle caimans.