Re: Brookesia and other dead leaves

[orion_dv8]

Hi folks im new to the whole cham ownership thing well, i will be anyways, i was wondering if anyone knows a source of these gorgeous little chams prefferably in Ottawa as i am looking to set myself up a vivarium and would very much like these guys to be part of my setup
thanks
ORION
p.s. also can anyone tell me anything of note about these guys i have done some reading but they always leave certain good tidbits out that only keeping them will afford.

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Pigmys in general are harder to take care of them most chams, if your new to chams they might not be the best choice but well they need lots of low lieing stick plants and ground cover, you can keep a bunch togeather in the right sized cage but males should not be housed togeather although they can be but due to there size and size they can be hard to monitor there behaviour. lots of small food is needed as well pin crix and fruit flies are good i have seen them take baby silks and mealies as well

Just read like mad there is not as much info out there on pigmis as other chames so if u get them be prepared.

[orion_dv8]

Yeah i rarely if ever get into something without first doing mad research so far what i have read has led me to first want to set up a leaf litter vivarium with small low lying branchy plants to provide night time perches for the little ones. I read somewhere that they can be housed together with mantellas, is there any other malagassy fauna that could be included in the vivarium, do you thinking hissing roaches would attack the vertebrates, i personally doubt it but as you said there is very little information on the subject. I would suppose though if all were well fed then the only roaches to suffer would be the nymphs, which is ok as I have them as feeders anyways, and another thing what native plants can i include the vivarium should i be worried about toxicity at all. I guess i picked pygmy's to start because i am willing to do what it takes to do it right, besides they are so much better looking than the big green guys.
thanks
ORION

[meow_mix450]

Hey

First i wanna wish you best of luck trying to find these guys in Canada. If you do happen to find them, there are most likly wild caught, i saw one near my pjs, but i think its gone now selling for $54.99, i live in scarborough. They go from 54 bucks to 160 bucks EACH!

Now, thats good that your doing your reserach i think you'll be able to handle them. Just do more research, and start looking now.

Best of luck

Meow

[Trace]

Did someone mention pygmy chams? My favourite subject lately! I would have a house full of these little monsters if I could.

First off, you won't find any Brookesia species in Canada as most are CITES protected. Actually there are a few around, but I highly doubt you will find any in your local pet shop or herp show. What you will see is the Rhampholeon species, most likely the R. brevicaudatus and those guys come from Tanzania and are getting imported like mad these days. On many occasions I've been in, or heard of pygmies in pet stores and they have listed them a Brookesia species when, in fact, they are a Rhampholeon species on closer inspection. Please don't get me started on the inadequacies of pet stores. :rolleyes:

Now I'm not the dart frog expert here, but I personally wouldn't mix and match species in the same viv. Different animals, different ecological niches, different immune systems blah blah blah. Now the Rhamphs that I'm working with do like it humid and somewhat wet, but I don't think they would tolerate the the extremely high humidity and dampness it takes for a proper dart frog enclosure. Someone can correct me on this.

Tips? Hmmm. I'm currently working with the R. temporalis and the R. brevicaudatus chameleons and I'm using this caresheet (http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/r-brevicaudatus.html) with some slight modifications to the basking spot temperatures. I use one (basking light) basically, to give the animals a choice of where they want to sit during the day. Now that summer is coming and my ambient temperatures are rising, I will have to make some adjustments to my enclosures to keep these little guys cool. As for plants, I've never seen my guys and gals nibble on any, but I do use non-toxic ones like Pothos just in case they do accidently take a bite. For me, the Pothos grows like mad and provides good cover.

As for locating the pygmies here in Ottawa, there has got to be someone, beyond myself, working with them. Sorry, I'm hopelessly out of touch with the local scene and herp society! You can try some of the larger pet stores or there always seems to be some of the Rhamphs available at the reptile expos in Mississauga. Bear in mind, the ones you see will most likely be WC animals and take a little more to successfully acclimate into a captive situation. I'm currently incubating 7 clutches of pygmy eggs so I may have some nice CB animals available in the upcoming months. Keep your fingers crossed!

I agree, the pygmies are much, much sexier than the big, green guys!

Cheers!
Trace

[huhet]

my experience is only recent, but i wouldn't house male brevs together. what was supposed to be a 1.2 for me turned out to be a 2.1, and it didn't go over well. needless to say, the male number two is in his own cage, while male number one and female are living in a 30 gallon tank, and female just popped out her fist clutch (four eggs incubating in the storage room). i'm hooked on these guys. i wouldn't mind tracking down a triumverant of brookesia for an empty 55 gallon i have.

also, they have very hearty appetites. i fly through small crickets. i'm planning on a fruit fly culture for the hatchlings, as my cricket breeding isn't working out well (yet).

i have a substarte of coconut fiber on top of a small layer of aquatic potting soil (for drainage). there was a bit of a problem with the chams getting a bit or two in their mouths when they ate at first, but then i bought some more of the soil and packed it down pretty hard. the plants are growing well in it, and now there's not a problem for the chams (or the crickets hiding in the stuff).

my plants are all non toxic as well, including pothos, corn plant (i can't remember what it's really called...it's on the cham safe plants list), wandering jew, african violet, pony tail palm, and a spider plant. i have a bucnh of some kind of a thin willow branch that i picked up at a craft store for them to climb around on. the pothos is their prefered plant as it supports their weight better than the others.

trace - what do you keep your humidity at? my apartment is so dry right now, that i'm having a time regulating the humidity.

[DragnDrop]

Now I'm not the dart frog expert here, but I personally wouldn't mix and match species in the same viv. Different animals, different ecological niches, different immune systems blah blah blah. Now the Rhamphs that I'm working with do like it humid and somewhat wet, but I don't think they would tolerate the the extremely high humidity and dampness it takes for a proper dart frog enclosure. Someone can correct me on this.



Mantellas aren't dart frogs, they're the Madagascan version of darts (which are from Central and South America). I do know a few people who keep the pygmy chams with mantellas, it's not that far fetched an idea. I personally wouldn't but if you get the right species, they can live together. I guess if you can get past the 'mixed species' aversion and are careful enough, it can work well for you. However, neither species is really easy care, so I wouldn't recommend the mixed setup for a beginner, learn each species separately, then see if you want to tackle the mixed tank. Food and environment wise, they have enough of the same needs that they can thrive together, but make sure that everyone gets enough food, some of these species can be food hogs. If you really are a die-hard mixed species fan, and know your stuff, then mixing the pygmies with carefully picked species of dart frogs could work too, but that's really pushing it since they're from opposite sides of the world.

I certainly wouldn't mix in any roaches. The hissers are from Madagascar, but they get BIG. Even though they're not likely to attack a live frog or cham, they'll devour your landscaping and eat a host of other things you don't want them to.

[orion_dv8]

Wow guys thanks for all the info and support keep it coming im loving all the reading lol. and trace my fingers are crossed for ya bud let me know i f i can score a pair off ya when they hatch as far as purchasing from a pet store, i dont think i would ever do that. lol
thats a whole other can of worms
ORION

[Trace]

Hilde: HAHA! Told ya I wasn't the dart frog/mantella person around here. :o Goes to show that you learn something new every day!

Leighton: Right now the humidity hovers around 70% but I'm having the same problems as you these days. I keep my pygmy species in my main chameleon room and over the winter I didn't have too much of a problem maintaining the humidity with all of the misters/foggers/humidifiers et al going in the room. I would mist the brevs and temps heavily in the morning and that would do them for the day. Up here in the Great White North, it seems like we've gone from -30C weather to +30C weather in a matter of a few weeks! As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm going to have to reassess the ambient and basking spot temperatures in the pygmy vivs as well as humidity levels for the next few months. Right now, I'm finding I'm misting my pygmies heavily twice a day.

Orion: I don't know what part of Ottawa you are in, but I'm here in the south end and you'll be hearing the screams of delight once they do hatch, particularly if I'm successful with the R. temporalis guys. Honestly I intend to keep the first few babies I hatch, but as of this writing, I've got 3 more gravid females on top of whatever eggs that are in my incubator. I swear they are the porn stars of my entire chameleon collection! I don't post much on this forum anymore, but I'll keep you in mind if I get inundated with offspring.

Cheers!

Trace

[dank7oo]

*makes a waiting list and put MY name on the top :)* LOL

Jason

[orion_dv8]

Wow its good to see so many enthusiasts in the city. What with all the bylaws being passed left right and center i was begining to wonder if anyone in the city actually cared for herps. So of those of you that have Ramphodeon sp. where did you acquire it i was being offered some dead leaf chams i must admit i assumed they were Brookesia but the dude lives in T.O. i hope i can get some at then next PCPC show. Do you guys have your terraria set up with false bottoms and a reservoir, is that even necessary? i want to do something naturalistic but for now dont want to make a huge production out of it. what do you think?
ORION

[meow_mix450]

i say u make it look as real as possible, jsut cause i like everything to be natural ha ha. the next show is june 13! yay, gonna be there for sur, but this guy Phil ships them in every so often(pymgys), he sells them for 60 each it think i have his number, he live sin T.O, if you would like it PM me, and ill give it to you then. Kepp us posted on what you do:D and get picks ah ha

Meow

[orion_dv8]

Hey guys and thanks for all the help. Not to sound too demanding but any of you guys got pics of your pygmy cham set ups if so lets see em.
thanks
ORION

[huhet]

trace: i'm tyler. leighton (latazyo) is the roommate and is a snake guy. close enough for government work though...i'm on about that same misting regimen. we're experience crazy temp swings outside just like canada. gotta love northern continental climatic conditions.

orion, i have a few pictures in the thread called "new arrivals" in this forum. i have a few more that i could upload later, and maybe i'll take some new ones soon by request. :)

edit: there are a couple pictuers of the cage when i first set it up in my gallery along with one of the chams. have a look in there too if you please.

[meow_mix450]

hey huhet i hope you dont mind me doing it for you ha ha, i got some free time on my hands right now

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/4134feb4-2-med.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/4134corkypyg25mar04.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/4134feb4-1-med.jpg

Wow i love your steup there great!

Meow

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I know its a bad pic but here is my old pigmy cage I dotn have them no more...

http://elev8r.com/chams/pigmycage.jpg