A few Concerns

[drewlowe]

Hello all, I just have a few things that i'm concerned about that i would like to ask the experinced Cham keepers.

Neo (male veiled) is acting slightly different from when i first got him around 7 months ago (wow i can't believe i've had him that long), which by the way is GREAT!!! If you don't remember his story, i'll summerize it a bit. I got him from a friend of a friend, he came to me malnorished and dehydrated and poorly taken care of for the first year+ of his life.

Anyway on to the questions.

He is housed in a 260 gallon repterium. Basking spot is 90 most of the cage is around 80-85 and if he goes lower it can get close to 75 (i live in a basement and use 2 heat sources for him). I will post a pic of the cage at the bottom of the post. His favorite brances are 2 closest to the heat lamp (that's where he is when he's not strolling or basking under the UVB).

About 1 month ago little man escaped, My man and myself were going nuts trying to find him, luckly we found him hanging on a cable wire next to the hot water heater. I accidently left a small gap in between the zippers of the repterium and he was able to push his way out, cleaver little guy i tell you. Well this moring while i was getting ready for work i heard rustling in his cage, I turn and look up and there he is hooked on to the front of his cage trying to nudge the zippers open with his snout. Should i be concerend that something in the cage is not right??? or could it be he is finally up to par??? I'm slightly concerend with this because if the set up isn't correct for him i want to get it right, also i don't like the fact that he's rubbing his nose on the reptrium and zippers trying to get out (i'm afraid he will cause some damage to himself)???

The next question,

Neo was feed crix when they were given to him his whole life, before my care. I started encorporating other food into his diet ex. mealies, wax worms (very seldom) hornworms, butters, and silkies. Well now he doesn't want anything except mealies and that's it!!!! I buy crix every 2 weeks and i let a few free range and i pull a legs off a couple to place in his dish, so he can decied what he wants. Doesn't matter which way i do it he will not eat crix. anymore, so they just end up dying or i have to take them out and throw them away or regutload and try again. I breed my own mealies so i know for sure they are very well gutloaded!!! Will they (mealies) be ok for him as a steady feeder seeing as he refuses to eat any other insect??? He eats around 10 mealies daily.

I have currently placed another order for butterworms and hornworms. I'm hoping he will eat them this time or the beardies will get them all again.

I've also came across something else that i can't find any info on and can't find anyone that knows anything about it.

Neos urates are not normal (at least in my book there not). When he first came to me his urates where all yellow and very hard (kinda looked crystalized). Well i figured that was due to being malnorished and dehydrated. Since he's been in my care his urates go back and forth sometimes they're half yellow and half white other times they're all yellow. The white part of the urate looks completely normal but the yellow part always appears to look cyrstalized (it's very hard and shiny). I believe this is something to do with the kidneys but i'm not sure, If anyone has any info that could help me better understand this it would be greatly appreciated as this it the thing that concerns me the most about him.

Thanks for anyhelp it's GREATLY aprreciated!!!!

Jamie

P.S. Here is a pic of his home
http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1695neo_s-cage-2-28-04.jpg

[drewlowe]

YEA!!! Just got off the phone with my man (he's out of town for work). He said next week, since it's my b-day that he's going to take me shopping for clothes and i know it sounds funny but some more branches and plastic vines for Neo.

I told him i was going to buy another plant today, the one that's in the pic i killed it 2 weeks ago. Thats right folks i killed another plant that make 3 in a row for me, gotta love my brown thumb. LOL So since i can't seem to make plants survive we are going to fill it up with fake plants and more bendable and bird branches. I know real ones are better but not if you can't keep them alive. LOL

Jamie

Hopefully Neo will enjoy more coverage and more branches. That may eliminate my problem of him trying to escape now. Also it may help him shed his ugly browns durning the day (except when i'm in the cage he gets fired up with reds and oranges).

[Collide]

I dont think i can answer your poo concren, but that does sound not right. As for him escaping, i have the same problem with one of my male veilds if given the opertunity he jets, after 4 cage changes and countless cage "enprovments" he is still the same. I think this has to do with his sex drive they want to look for a female my other male latly has been more aggressive and apt to get out *** well he is reaching a year and a half, i honestly think this is a desire to mate which causes them to act this way. thats just my thoughts on that lol

As for the mealie issue my male panther is a mealie freek he will sit there and eat as many as i give him but will only eat 3 or 4 crix if that. So when i run outa mealies he basically gets cranky and eventually eats the crix its just not his prefrence, he prefers worms by far. I have noticed that when i get a order of silks in and they have been off crix for a week or soo when they see crix they get very excited. Again just some babbaling thoughts

Brandy

[meow_mix450]

In my opinion, and what i have read its not the best staple for chameleon, i have to look it up and tell you why, i could be wrong. Try not feeding him mealies for a week maybe he'll change back to criekts? Just some suggestiongs.

meow

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Being that he was malnourished, and specifically dehydrated, kidney damage is likely - which may explain the crystallization you are referring to. What is your misting schedule like?

As for rubbing his nose on the cage, I do not think it has much to do with his dissatisfaction with your enclosure. He has discovered he can get out of it, and remembers how to - he therefore is trying to pull his trick once more :). I notice this behaviour specifically with some of my bearded dragons. When they realize they can get out of their little 'box,' they decide to continually try to do so. I, personally, wouldn't be too worried. However, additional plantation is always beneficial. What live plants are you using? Have you tried Ficus? They are fairly easy to maintain.

As for the mealworms, I definitely would not feed them as a staple. They have a really high level of chitin, which is difficult for your chameleon to digest. Nutritionally, they are not the best. Of course, this can be modified with supplementation; however this wouldn't be necessary with alternative food sources. Have you tried "starving" him for a few days, then feeding crickets?

[drewlowe]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

ReptiliansDOTca- I mist Neo once really good in the morning plus i give him at least 3 syringes of water 1ml daily, sometimes more depending on him. I make sure he drinks all 3 syringes (possibly more) because the lack of previous care. This is done EVERY day. I'm usually gone all day at work and when i get home he's already on his "sleeping" branch waiting for the lights to go out. At least 3 days a week he gets misted 2-3 times.

Neos first plant was a ficus and i killed it, along with his dracenias (sp) and his newer plant (in the pic). I've ALWAYS had a brown thumb, but i thought it would work. So for now we are unfortunatly going to stick with fake plants and branches, until i can learn how to keep a plant alive.

I have tried going a week without any food, but he still won't eat crickets. I didn't want to go any longer, because of the previous owner. I did put in 5 butterworms yesturday and he ate 3 so hopefully that's a start, but he didn't want any today. I have 30 tiny baby hornworms that i have to wait 1 or 2 weeks until they get big enough and i'm going to try those again.


I think you may be right about "knowing" where he can escape from, because this morning he tried unzipping the cage again. It's so cute seeing him trying to unzip that cage (i don't think it would be possible for him to unzip it).

Do you think there is any way to reverse the damage to his kidneys, or would i be too late??? Is this something that's going to affect him his whole life? Do you know where i might read up on some of the conditions that affects the kidneys??? I have 3 books on chams and none of them go into any causes of kidney damage.

Thanks again for your help,

Jamie

[ReptiliansDOTca]

I will look for you, however you can try looking in regards to ANY reptile, or human. It has the same general affect to all. Unfortunately, once the damage is done it likely cannot be reversed, but it can be treated and controlled depending on what the problem is. It ultimately extends to how much damage has been done.

The only suggestion I would have to you is to mist on a daily basis instead. It may help to raise the humidity. Now as for the feeding, I really don't know what to say. What I would do though, is throw a mixture of worms, containing a few meal worms, and hope he will gobble them all up.

On the same hand, only something such as an ultrasound can determine what damage has been done. Dehydration has many ill effects, infact it effects every part of the body. All cells need fluid to function, and without cells our bodies, and our reptiles bodies' cannot function, etc.

[drewlowe]

What ever info you find i would LOVE to read it. I've been searching and searching but can't find any info related specificly to yellow urates in chameleons or possible dehydration damages.

Ok this was strange to me. This morning as i was getting ready for work. Neo made his way to the bottom of the cage to go poo. His poo part was normal but his urates were all yellow agian and he expeled alot of clear liquid (i belive it to be water). Is it just because i am having him drink 3 ml of water daily plus whatever he drinks after i mist him, or could it be that he can't fully "digest" water???

Thanks

Jamie

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Unfortunately, I am not a veterinarian so I cannot give you specific answers offhand. However, I will make sure to ask one of the veterinarians on staff at work tomorrow, and get you the answers you are looking for. I will post them immediately, upon recieving the answers of course.

If this is, and continues to be an ongoing problem, I would definitely recommend a veterinarian. However I will try to get you some answers promptly.

[xdiversichicx]

this is what i do to keep the zippers on my chams reptariums shut. since there are two zippers at each end (at least there are on mine) i use a bread tie and put it through the holes on both zippers, then twist and whala cham proof zipper. even if he moves one, the other will go with it. bread ties are handy little things lol.

[drewlowe]

Well just got off the phone with my vets office (after a few calls) neo has an appointment to have his blood drawn on June 2. Hopefully these test will be able to determine how much damage has been caused. When i get the info back i'm giving a copy to my friend to give to the guy he works with (the previous owner) along with new pics of Neo (my friends been asking for photos to show the other guy). Neo looks nothing like he did when he first came to me.

Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Neo. I'll let everyone know the results when i get them.

Jamie

[Cruciform]

You'll want to watch out that he's not being overhydrated as well. It can be quite serious in humans, so I imagine it would be bad for chams as well.

It would be so much easier if we could just ask pets how they felt.

[drewlowe]

Just wanted to update everyone real quick.

Took Neo to the vet Wendsday night for a blood test. Ended up not getting one, because the vet recommend against it, saying if it was his animal (which he does keep herps himself) he wouldn't do it. He said if kidney damage was present he wouldn't be as strong, alert, and as big as he is. So we opted not to give him one and to keep an eye on him. The vet said if his weight starts to decrease to bring him back in and they will do a blood test for me then.

He did have a tiny bump on his right front leg near the elbow that i wanted the vet to take a look at. The vet had to go and make a small incision in the bump and it ended up being a small cyst, so now i have to keep an eye out for those. The vet said that there is a chance of cysts coming back. My poor little man.

I left the vets feeling so much better. He had nothing but good things to say about neo, well pretty much all good. LOL He had to put neo back into the carrier because his grip is so tight he made the vet bleed (not much just tiny pricks from his nails going into his hand.) He said that is the first time that has ever happend and he's been in business for over 20 years. He also told me i was doing a great job with Neo, he couldn't belive how much he's grown and the change in attitude in just 7 months. He commented on how when he first seen him (2 days after i recieved him) he was not struggling against anyone holding him and the vet said it appeard when you turned him (in angles) he would "seem" to disappear (because he was skinny when i first got him). And now he's became a nice strapping young man that breaks skin with his nails lol.

Ok off to work now,

Jamie