First time buyer

[knads06]

Im about to buy a BP and im just wondering what everyones opinion is on them as a first time snake. Easy to handle etc or will i be looking forward to getting bit and snapped at constantly. A few of my friends have them and they say their great to have and a few others say they have friends that have them and they snap all the time. Just looking for some helpful info. thanks

[nita]

A snappy BP is not very common. BP's make a great first time snake as long as you do your reading. Check out your library or bookstore for some books on keeping Ball pythons and you can do a search on caresheets online, there are lots. BP's are wonderful, beautiful animals that deserve to be cared for properly, my opinion is if they are snapping at you, you have a very hungry snake, or stressed out. Two things that are corrected with proper husbandry. You definately came to the right place though for information, there are a lot of very knowledgable people here. At this weekends Edmonton show I had my ball Ulysses out and he was contentedly having his picture taken while lounging around the necks of the younger kids there.

[sapphire_moon]

research research research! Oh and set up your cage ATLEAST 1wk (7days) before you get the snake so you can stabalize temps.

In care sheets they don't tell you HOW to measure temps. Get a digitial thermometer and put the probe right OVER the UTH (uth being on the outside underneath of the cage)

and you will need a lamp dimmer or rheostat to control the temps.

As for them being snappy, if they are snappy they are hungry, have mites, or just general poor bad husbandry.

I have 2 of them, and never had one attempt to bite me, or even strike out at me. Most of the time you hear people getting bit is because of a SFE (Stupid Feeding Error) like hand feeding a rat (without tongs) or startling the snake like ripping it's hide off of him and grabbing him.

[BoidKeeper]

Balls are calm and stay relatively small but will get large enough to eat adult rats.
Here's why I do not recomend them as pets,
- They can be picky eaters and this can be stressful for a first time owner. If a ball is not eating IMO it should not be handled. That makes them boring if you want a snake you can handle often.
- They need higher heat then most snakes, 95-90 hot end 80-75 cool end. Those temps can be hard to maintain in a cool house.
- They need higher then avarage humidity (60%) in order to shed properly.
They can be good first snakes but given their husbandry requirments I personaly do not recomend them for a beginer.
Cheers,
Trevor

[daver676]

I have a bp as my first snake, and although I love her to death, she has been a huge source of frustration as far as not eating. I'd strongly recommend against a bp for a first snake.

[smeagel]

my first snake was a ball python, and they are great. She is the most tame snake i have and very easy to handle. i only have a couple of ball pythons but plan to get many more to increase my collection. I highly recomend the Ball Python.

[Auskan]

A ball python was also my first snake and I still have her, but for a first snake I would recommend corn snakes. I agree with all the points that Trevor made, so I won't restate them. My first winter with my BP, she went off feed for 7 months which was a huge source of frustration for me. She is still partially off feed from last winter as I am also doing the switch from mice to rats and she will only eat rats under very particular circumstances which results in her only eating every 3-4 weeks.

As far as temperament, they are great. Mine has never snapped at me and is slow moving and easy to handle, compared to baby corns which are quite fast. However corns also have great temperaments and are rarely biters, even as babies. As they get bigger they calm down and become easier to handle too.

[sapphire_moon]

ohhh, about beginer snakes? No, I wouldn't reccommend ball pythons as beginer snakes either. Unless you can actually deal with all that has been said. But you never know until you try.

Just remember that these are living creatures, If you get tired or frusterated with them, you can't just throw them away.

A good starter snake is something like a corn snake, but they can be nippy as babies, rarely as adults.
My little 8-9 month old will whip around as if to bite EVERY time I get into her cage. I'm not to sure if it's a defensive thing, or if she just thinks I'm food, because she IS a pig.

Either snake you get, allow it time to acclimate to it's new home, at the very min. 1wk without handling, staring, attempting to feed, or anything else, it is always suggested that you go atleast 2 wks like this though.

[mykee]

Some balls snap, some don't. Some balls fast, some don't. Some have great temperments, some do not. It all depends on the individual snake you get, and how patient and stress-free you would like your life to remain. Oh yeah, do LOTS of research, buy books on captive husbandry and read everything you can BEFORE buying the snake. Good luck.

[marisa]

I am going against the grain and saying that most snakes are good starters as long as you RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH *before* buying.

My first was a corn and frankly, I highly regret it. This little ten inch snake was whippy, bitey for a couple weeks and terribly hard to hold. I had no clue about snake handling and this was a terrible way to learn. My boyfriend did all the work with the snake because it took me months to feel comfortable holding a living whip. Sure by the time it calmed down (3-4 months old) its eating habits, and easy care made up for the handling but I certaintly wouldn't want to learn on that again.

This is JUST me though.

My ball pythons were a joy to have. You simply MUST follow the rules. Tiny enclosures for babies with tight hides and NO human interaction....now I agree this might make it not a good starter. If you have patience and you can accept not seeing your ball for the first three weeks then go for it. Anyways....the handling is amazing...hardly any strikes and no whippy-ness.

In the end many many snakes make good starters and no one can tell you which will work out best for you because on top of all their species tendencies, they are also individuals as are you and only you know which is best for you. I suggest picking out 3-4 snakes you like the looks of, then researching the crap out of them..I mean TONS of research...then using what you have learned and asking questions about the species, pick which would be best for you.

Marisa

[knads06]

Well just thought id let everyone know that i bought my BP today and its been great so far. I had a choice of five to choose from and he was the only one moving around inside the tank so i picked him up and he was extremely calm. All the other ones seemed tense. Planning on feeding him in a week or so since the lady at the store said they just got them in on sunday so they didnt even feed them yet. Just one question for all of you. What size tank is best? I was thinking about either a 20 or a 30 gallon tank..........Right now i have him in a 80 gallon tank just because i had it laying around and figured id use it till i buy a new one...

[snakehunter]

The 80 gallon should suffice, just make sure htat you have ALOT of hides in there for him, tupperware containers, cereal boxes, ANYTHING he could fit in and touch ALL sides is perfect. the only thing i would worry about with a tank that large is humidity and temperature, other than that id say stick with the 80, and he could live it most if not all of his life. i say most, cause sometimes you might get a freak snake that could hit 6 ft.

[nita]

Go with a small rubbermaid to start off with and then switch to the large one when he is ready. BP's like small spaces. If you keep him in the big one you will need to really fill it with hide places, maybe PVC Piping so that he can move around and still be hiding.

[marisa]

Putting your snake into a 30 or 80 gallon will be disaster. Which is why I recommended RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!

Put the baby BP into a small rubbermaid as suggested using a heat pad under 1/3 for heat. A small rubbermaid! Tight tiny hides that are almost too small. Leave it alone for two weeks I'd say....no handling, no cleaning, no nothing. Then try a very warm F.T mouse. Good luck and remember the most important thing is small secure enclosure, and no human interaction for awhile.

Marisa

[knads06]

After doing a week of RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH ive come to the conclusion that everyone has a different method for handling the bp's. Methods that work for your snake might not necessarily work for our. I downsized from the 80g tank i had laying around to a 20g long that i bought today. SOme people said it would be fine in the 80g and others said to put it in a rubbermaid container. Im just waiting till next week to feed it for the first time and hopefully get a good video of my new lil buddy chomping away on pinkie.

[daver676]

My guess is that a pinkie is too small. Feed it a rat that is the same girth as the thickest part of it's body. Don't even bother with mice, cause trying to switch a mouse feeder over to rats can be a pain in the ***, unless of course you want to be feeding your bp 5 mice per feeding when it gets big, then by all means.... Good call on the tank downsize. :)

What are your temps and humidity like?

[nita]

Young ball pythons should be eating at least fuzzy/hopper mice. They are too big for pinkies. The meal item should be at the size of your snake at his largest girth.

PS..... I researched for almost a year before I got my first snake. There are many very knowledgable breeders here as well as hobbyist, use their knowledge and learn from others mistakes so that your snake doesnt' have to suffer. Using a glass tank keep a close eye on your temps and humidity as they are hard to manage in glass, I found out the hard way and ended up with 2 snakes with RI's. We are in rubbermaids now and doing much better. Good luck with your new pet.

[Cruciform]

My baby BP is the oddest little fella.

He's got lots of hides, but his favorite place to curl up is under the water bowl that I had previously notched for the baby corn to be able to hide under.

So when you look in his rubbermaid you see a bunch of nice, snug, empty hides, and a dog's water bowl sitting on top of a snake. It actually ends up off the floor off the cage once he's in place. And he still hasn't spilled any of the water yet.

I'll try and get a pic of it :)

[sapphire_moon]

lol.

tanks are crappy for humidity. Thats why people were saying get a rubbermaid.

try an adult mouse or fuzzy rat.

[smeagel]

what size of rubbermaid should i get for my 9 month ball?
and my adult bal python

[knads06]

Right now my tank is reading 78 degrees F on the left side and 90 degrees F on the right side. As far as humidity goes im gonna work on that one tomorrow. Cruciform, my Bp does the same exact thing as yours. ITs currently balled up inside under the dogs water bowl. One of my friends recommended using that and he said his bp loves it in there. What size tank does everyone have. I kinda wish i got the 20 gallon high tank instead of the 20 gallon long tank. He's still a baby and can almost reach the top, looks like ill be puttin some heavy rocks on top so he doesnt escape. Does anyone use a dimmer switch to control the amount of heat their lamp gives off??????

[smeagel]

right now i have a 50 gallon tank with the sliding glass doors at the front with a standard slinding glass door lock on it

[nita]

My BP's are kept in 33"X16"X6" rubbermaids. BP's arent' arboreal so they don't usually climb. When I had mine in a 33 Gal tank they never climbed, they would hide under their rocks and just cruise around at night. My hatchling rack will hold 8"X5"X13" rubbermaids. The top of your tank should have locks of some sort on it, my 33 Gal tank had 4 little latches that hooked under the edge of the tank so that they couldn't push it up.

[sapphire_moon]

WHY do you have a lamp?
Get a UTH or human heat pad, lamp dimmer, and digital thermometer.

Hook the heating unit up to the lamp dimmer, hook the lamp dimmer into the wall, put the probe over the uth (the UTH being on the outside, the probe on the inside).

You will never have a tank that is tall enough that they can't reach the top.
As already said, ball pythons are more ground snakes, not arboreal, they NEED the length not the height.

[knads06]

Right now i have both the UTH which is underneath the tank ofcourse and a red heat bulb hanging above the tank. Do i need both or is bad for the snake??? I was told to use a UTH and a heat bulb above...........its reading 92-95 degrees F right now, too hot??????

[sapphire_moon]

no, 92-95 is a great temp, but a UTH alone can get well over 100 degrees, HOW are you measuring your heat?

If you are using a UTH uncontrolled and a heat lamp, it is way to hot.

if you are using both, get rid of the lamp, get a lamp dimmer or rheostat, plug it in, and take the temps down to proper levels.

If you are using a dial thermometer, in my opinion they suck, they are measuring air temps, same with those strip stick on things, get a digital thermometer and put the probe over the UTH.

Again, HOW are you measuring temps?

[knads06]

I have two strip stick thermometers in the upper left and right hand corners. I understand what your talking about because if the one in the upper right is reading 90 degrees F way up top then its definitely going to be hotter down below. Ill have to invest in a digital thermometer today.........

[marisa]

Don't worry you won't have to "invest"

You can usually pick up a decent one with probe at Walmart, Canadian Tire or other home hardware stores for 10 bucks.

Marisa

[daver676]

Originally posted by knads06
I have two strip stick thermometers in the upper left and right hand corners. I understand what your talking about because if the one in the upper right is reading 90 degrees F way up top then its definitely going to be hotter down below. Ill have to invest in a digital thermometer today.........

Holy CRAP! I bet it's sweltering down on the bottom of the tank! I'd fix that up ASAP.

[BoidKeeper]

Young ball pythons should be eating at least fuzzy/hopper mice.
IMO a ball python should never be given mice of any kind at any age. Balls grow up large enough to eat rats and are born big enought to eat babie rats, i.e. pinkies. Almost all snakes reach an adult size that is large enough for them to need a rat to constitute a proper size meal is born large enough to eat a baby rat. What I mean is adult snake eats adult rat, baby snake eats baby mice. Balls are picky feeders as it is and if you start them off on mice they may want to stick with mice. Then you get a snake that needs to eat 10 mice at a time to constitue a proper meal when they are full grown. Reaching that full grown size will also take a lot longer while on a diet of mice as well.
My two cents,
Trevor

[knads06]

Well i got my BP on thursday and i figured id wait a week to feed him so this coming up thursday will be his first feeding day. Definitely taking out the camera and video camera to record this one. I just hope the little guy is hungury and eats the pinkie. He's been extremely friendly since ive got him. Ive taken him out each day and just let him crawl around me and let him get use to his surroundings. All my friends cant wait for Slim to eat his first pinkie, neither can i in a way..............

[HeatherRose]

Maybe you'll have better luck feeding him you don't take him out each day. New snakes should be given time to get used to their surroundings, and frequent handling just stresses them out, which definately reduces your chances of having him eat.

Just a thought :D

[marisa]

The chances a brand new Ball Python will eat in front of you and your friends after you have been handling him everyday are slim to none. Maybe it will happen, but what will most likely happen is that he will refuse.

Ball Pythons also do not eat pinkies. Ever. Most are able to eat adult mice shortly after hatching.

What you need to do is leave the snake alone with 0 handling for a week or two, then offer a FT small adult mouse. IMHO.

Marisa

[knads06]

While this board is extremely informative it is also extremely confusing at the same time. Some people say dont play with the snake for a week while others say play with it so it gets use to you. Some say it wont eat and others say it will. My two friends have Bp's and they both played with their snake everyday and after a week fed it and they both ate the pinkie. I guess every snake is different and everyone has different opinions as to what to and not to do. I wish these damn things were all the same so all of our opinions and info would be the same. But to each his own and i guess its a learning experience every day. So far he's been extremely friendly and seems to have no problem with me handling him. How long did everyone wait until they first fed their bp's???

[marisa]

If your "friends" are feeding pinkies, they are not doing the right thing. I will repeat....ball pythons NEVER need to eat pinkies! They are born big enough to eat far larger mice.

Generally anyone who says take a brand new snake out and play with it so it "gets used to you" is wrong. The snake will never "get used to you" it will tolerate handling and that's it. They cannot be "friendly"

The snake needs time to acclimate. Which means leaving it alone for sometime. Your friends are not only feeding them the wrong size prey item but taking chances holding brand new snakes without any time to let them acclimate to their new surroundings.

Do what you like though. It's your snake.

Marisa

[sapphire_moon]

I don't know how many people told you that the snake is to big to eat pinkies. And I don't think I seen anyone on this board say "Take the snake out and play with it so it gets used to it's surroundings". However I did see.

Leave the snake alone for 1 wk
feed it an adult mouse or hopper rat.


(and personally) ABSOLUTELY NO HANDLING until it eats 4 times in a row (NOT 4 mice/rats in a row, but week after week succesfully taking food offered)

How much research did you do on ball pythons before you got one? Or did you rely on just your friends?

Listen to these people, they KNOW what they are doing!

[knads06]

Ive done a lot of research on this board and many other websites. and like i said before everyones experience is completely different. For example tonight i was at my friends house and her bp was shedding, all it had left was about four inches from its head down and everyone here says to leave it alone cause its easily aggitated, but it was still extremely easy going. Everyones experience is different and i guess there is no true way to get a wild reptile like a bp to do exactly what we wish it to do. its been fun so far, lets just hope he eats when it comes time................

[daver676]

Sounds like your friend also doesn't know how to offer the proper husbandry for a shedding snake since from what your saying, the snake didn't shed in one piece....

Anyways......

Leave the snake alone, unhandled, for a week. Offer it a thawed/warmed rat that is the same girth as the snake at it's thickest point. If your snake is still so small that a pinkie is the smae girth as the snake, so be it, otherwise get something else that is bigger (a make sure it's a rat).

Let me put it to you another way that might be "cooler".

You snake will get bigger, faster, if you feed it RATS!

My bp was only 19 inches long, and about 160 grams on February 1st, 2004. I got her on rats about a MONTH after that. So from March 1st to today, eating appropriately sized RATS, she is 34 inches long and 730 grams!!! I feed her every 7 days. Her hot side is always around 92, and her cold side at 78. Humidity is usually between 40-50%, and raised to 80-90% while she is blue (during her shed cycle). One hide on warm side, one hide on cool side, and a water dish. That is it.

What your friends are telling you is wrong.

Anyone else feel like they are wasting their time here?.....

[Artemis]

Seriously, you do indeed have knads

Since the "when to give up thread" was so enthralling, I thought back to this one and wanted to revisit it.

“My bp is just startin to piss me off now.”

That is just one quote of many that made my eyebrows shoot up and worry about the snake in your “care.” The first post you had was whether or not BPs make good first snakes, most people told you NO, and those were the breeders who know a LOT. The others who are more optimistic about people and “pets” said it would be ok IF you did the research first and IF you had good husbandry. Despite this advice, in the middle of this post, you let us know you already have the snake, and wonder what you should put him in. And I quote below.


“Well just thought id let everyone know that i bought my BP today and its been great so far. I had a choice of five to choose from and he was the only one moving around inside the tank so i picked him up and he was extremely calm. All the other ones seemed tense. Planning on feeding him in a week or so since the lady at the store said they just got them in on sunday so they didnt even feed them yet. Just one question for all of you. What size tank is best? I was thinking about either a 20 or a 30 gallon tank..........Right now i have him in a 80 gallon tank just because i had it laying around and figured id use it till i buy a new one...”

You bought this snake, brought it home, didn’t do ANY research first. So you are already behind the game. The people on here have the knowledge to help you catch up for your first mistakes. You got different opinions from lots of people, but instead of weighing out your advice, and thinking about WHO told you what, you very haughtily posted:

“After doing a week of RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH ive come to the conclusion that everyone has a different method for handling the bp's. Methods that work for your snake might not necessarily work for our. I downsized from the 80g tank i had laying around to a 20g long that i bought today. SOme people said it would be fine in the 80g and others said to put it in a rubbermaid container. Im just waiting till next week to feed it for the first time and hopefully get a good video of my new lil buddy chomping away on pinkie.” [color=blue]

Lets not forget the snake was also cooking:

[color=blue]“Right now i have both the UTH which is underneath the tank ofcourse and a red heat bulb hanging above the tank. Do i need both or is bad for the snake??? I was told to use a UTH and a heat bulb above...........its reading 92-95 degrees F right now, too hot??????
I have two strip stick thermometers in the upper left and right hand corners. I understand what your talking about because if the one in the upper right is reading 90 degrees F way up top then its definitely going to be hotter down below. Ill have to invest in a digital thermometer today.........”

And being held all the time:

“Ive taken him out each day and just let him crawl around me and let him get use to his surroundings. All my friends cant wait for Slim to eat his first pinkie, neither can i in a way..............”

Then the people with 8 tons of experience, and opinions that YOU asked for, told you that was a bad idea, especially if you want to get him to eat, and you, with all your wisdom and exp, mentioned that your “friends” had no problems, which personally I think is total bs, doing things the way you were doing them.

“While this board is extremely informative it is also extremely confusing at the same time. Some people say dont play with the snake for a week while others say play with it so it gets use to you. Some say it wont eat and others say it will. My two friends have Bp's and they both played with their snake everyday and after a week fed it and they both ate the pinkie. I guess every snake is different and everyone has different opinions as to what to and not to do. I wish these damn things were all the same so all of our opinions and info would be the same. But to each his own and i guess its a learning experience every day. So far he's been extremely friendly and seems to have no problem with me handling him. How long did everyone wait until they first fed their bp's???”

Referring to your animal as a “damn thing” doesn’t instill much confidence in me, either, frankly. Not to mention this is while asking more basic questions you should have already known the answers too, considering the snake was already in your possession.

And then we could go through all the posts about feeding stuff where you disapprove of the good advice to start on rats, and are sure the pinky is the way to go, and in other threads plenty more posts that reveal much more than your trying to play off right now. But I think I’ve pretty much gotten my point across without having to do all that. Bottom line dude, I think this snake has been stressed out for far too long. Leave it alone, shape up and get serious, in the time you are leaving it alone, LEARN about snakes. Not just ball pythons, SNAKES in general. Obviously you have internet access. USE IT. Learn about snake biology, snakes in general, and REALLY meticulously learn about the one you own-Ball Python. Husbandry, possible illnesses, Natural habitats, captive habitats, advice on feeding and handling, other owner's experiences with them. Yes, you are right, not everyone is going to say the same things. SO you look at what everyone says, and WHO is saying it, and you find the balance. Its up to you! There isn’t a checklist of things you can just do and then voila the snake will be just as it is "supposed to be." You have to learn to understand your animals needs and meet them- from the most basic, to the most complicated.

If that is too much for you to take on, then give the snake to someone who is willing to do that. Pets are a commitment, and a snake, with its lifespan, size, and needs is a HUGE one.

You dont have my sympathy, but you do have my advice- Artemis

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44064

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