hets

[smeagel]

i was just wondering why people say they have 100% hets. is it even possible to garantee a het, at least when it is too young to breed.

[m1k3_88]

when they have a 100% het, it means that the morph was bred to a normal, such as an albino bred to a normal. THis would make all the babies 100% het as all the babies carry the gene.

[smeagel]

so if i have a normal female, and breed her to a 100% het orange ghost, all the babies would be 100% het ghost too?

[m1k3_88]

Nope, the babies wouldn't all be hets. I'm no expert on the genetics and i just know hte basics, sorry. This site should help you out with the genetics click me (http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/matrix/squares.asp)

[lostwithin]

Hi,
Too simplify it try too think of it this way (I'm going too use albino as an example it’s a simple one) a gene has 2 halves, when the gene is passed on too the infant only half a gene from each parent moves on too the baby making one whole gene for it. In order too have an albino snake both halves of the gene must be albino, so and a normal has both half's normal, In a Het albino, has half the gene normal , half albino, normal shows up over albino if mixed it’s Dominate. Now all the babies will be Hets because a no matter which half your normal parent gives too the baby its getting half a normal gene, and no matter which half the albino parent gives the infant gets half an albino gene. There for they all get half and half, ending up as Het for albino.

If you take that het, and a normal, the babies will get one normal gene from the normal parent, but from the het parent you don’t know if they received an albino half, or a Normal half of its gene, there is a way of finding out what the chances of each are but too keep it simple, with a het and normal you have no way of tell which baby’s got the albino half from the het parent. And which babies got the normal half so you cant grantee anything.

That’s a very simple version of genetics hope it helped.

Devon

[smeagel]

Thank you Devon, it helped a bit.
So is there such a thing as a 100% het. am i guaranteed that the snake is actually a het.

[Linds]

Originally posted by smeagel

So is there such a thing as a 100% het. am i guaranteed that the snake is actually a het.

All depends who you purchase it from. All too many people like to pass off normals as hets, since there isn't any visual differences. Make sure you purchase a het from a reputable source and receive paperwork for it ;)

[Andy_G]

normalxmorph=100%of clutch are hets
hetxnormal=50% of clutch are hets and 50% are normals
hetxhet=50% of clutch hets, 25% normals, 25% morph

These ratios only apply to simple recessive traits such as albino and piebald...there are more morphs that are simple recessive though.

[RandyRemington]

The percentages are the chances of each possible outcome for each baby, not the percentages that you will necessarily get of each type in a clutch. Also, if you work with the genotypes (homozygous normal, heterozygous mutant, homozygous mutant) then they apply to all non-sex linked mutations, not just recessive mutations. You just have to remember what you have (i.e. a pastel is heterozygous mutant so each baby with a homozygous normal has a 50% chance of being heterozygous mutant - pastel).

One way to think of genetics is as a very long and complex recipe. The recipe is so long it is like an encyclopedia set. Each chromosome can be thought of as a book/volume and each page as a gene. However, the recipe is so important that there are two copies of every book (except the sex one) just in case there is a problem with one copy. Some mistakes on some pages are minor enough that one bad/mutant copy doesn’t affect the appearance while others show up even with one bad copy (i.e. if one copy leaves pepper out perhaps the other already included enough but if one puts in arsenic instead of salt it will make a difference).

When the parents go to make a baby each makes a single copy of it’s encyclopedia set. Sometimes it switches between its two original copies of a volume while making the new copy (egg or sperm). Baring an outright copier problem each page in the new set will be like one or the other of the parent’s copies. Each parent can only pass one copy of each page on so if the parent’s two copies are different its just chance determining which copy each baby gets. However, pages that are close together are likely to both come from the same original volume since it’s unlikely that it decided to switch source copies between these two pages. At conception the copies from the two parents are put together to make a new snake with the usual two complete copies of the full encyclopedia set.

A mutation is a copy problem. Somewhere, probably long ago, a word got left out or some letters reversed in the copy process. That messed up page had a 50% chance of getting handed down to each offspring and each that did get it had a 50% chance of passing it to each of their offspring. If the mutation caused problems there was a good chance that eventually the lines with the bad copy would die out. If the problems weren’t too major, then eventually two hets bred together and produced a homozygous mutant (25% chance for each egg) in which both copies of the same page had the same mistake. Since this homozygous mutant snake doesn’t have a normal copy of that page it can only give it’s offspring the mutant copy (baring a spontaneous mutation to correct the problem, very unlikely).

When an albino is bred to a normal we know that it gave an albino copy of the gene in question to its offspring because it doesn’t have a normal copy to give. Therefore, its offspring are 100% chance heterozygous. There is still the chance (hopefully very small) that the person selling a particular animal isn’t honest, mixed it up, or that the homozygous animal wasn’t its parent after all (retained sperm?). If we had a paternity test we could verify hets based on matching them with the homozygous parent.

[Tim_Cranwill]

This may help explain it too... :)

http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/faq22.html

[Wizwise2000]

Tim's webpage is awesome helpful!

Shane

[jjnnbns]

I've heard people say to "get paperwork"... What does that mean? What kind of paperwork is involved or should one expect?

[smeagel]

i'm wanting to get a ball morph from corey woods, and try breeding him with my reg. female. Hey does anybody know a good place to get incubators?

[RandyRemington]

Basically the "paperwork" is a written guaranty that the genetics of the snake are as sold. A good idea as people tend to confuse possible hets with hets and the like. Really good paperwork would have a picture of the snake so it can be identified as the correct snake to go with the paperwork. It's not perfect though and ultimately the sellers reputation figures prominently should you want to resell the animal later.

[Jeff_Favelle]

i'm wanting to get a ball morph from corey woods, and try breeding him with my reg. female. Hey does anybody know a good place to get incubators?


??You don't even have eggs yet, why do you need an incubator??

[smeagel]

i just wan to be prepared, thats all.

[Piers]

Jeff you allways give people a hard time about not being ready or doing the research but when someone ie-Smeagel- thinks ahead, you come down on them for that too What gives?
It seems you give people sh-- just for sh--'s sake. People ask a Q and you and a few others bite their heads off.
Not trying to start a fight ,but I think you'll end up scaring people away from the hobby instead of making them feel welcome to ask and learn.
Piers

[Jeff_Favelle]

Actually, my point was that his time is better spent getting the HOUSING down for the snakes, than for an incubator that won't be needed for 2 PLUS years. I'd rather he set up the snake 100% right, than if he puts 50% into his snake cage(s) and 50% into an idle incubator.

Indeed, what gives?

[Jeff_Favelle]

And if asking why he's worrying about an incubator with no eggs to incubate is going to scare him (which I doubt it will), then maybe he'll have more problems than hatching out BP's.

I asked him a simple question, which he answered quite nicely. Why you have to pipe up is beyond me.

[Pia]

Jeff, if your point was as you say, about getting the housing completely set up before getting an incubator, then that is what you should have said in the first place. Perhaps this person already has the housing covered and if not maybe wants to get it all at once or maybe just wanted to start researching what's available. Either way it's that person's money and if they want to buy an incubator and not use it right away it's their choice. A better answer would have been to suggest where/what type to buy.


As for Piers "piping up", I agree with what he has said. Your posts often come off as derisive rather than helpful, lighten up!

[smeagel]

i already have ball pythons and i have housing ready for another as soon as i find one. I see where Jeff was coming from and i didn't take what he said or the way he said it as being nasty or anything like that, and it sure didn't scare me away from anything. All i wanted to know was were i could get one, when the time came, and how much it would cost. Perhaps i should have stated that as well. I appologize for the misunderstanding.

[Piers]

Jeff I said I didn't want a fight just an answer. You can see I'm not the only one to observe the attitude in your posts.
I said something becouse no one else did, I guess I like to stir things up.
Again I don't want a fight, for all I know you are not awere of how some of your posts come off.
Piers

[Tim_Cranwill]

Not to feed the fire but... :D

It's always the people who don't offer any advice (or rarely do) that criticize the advice being given. "Why didn't you just say this or say that?" Well, sometimes there isn't time for a whole chapter to be written (for the 5th time this month). Sometimes people don't feel like answering in fine detail. Well why didn't YOU offer that advice? Hmmm?

And Piers, you said you "don't want a fight"... but you also said you "like to stir things up a bit", well maybe add some ingredients instead of just stirring the pot...

But don't be offended... It’s just a reptile forum guys. Chill out a bit…. ;)

[Pia]

Tim, I didn't answer because I don't have the answer. For the people who do have the answer, it certainly wouldn't take a "whole chapter" to state it. A store name or website wouldn't take any longer to write than the answer that was given.

[jjnnbns]

Where do you guys get off thinking that you can tell someone how they should answer a question? Jeffs response was Jeffs response, not yours. If you don't like it then give a better one.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Jeff, if your point was as you say, about getting the housing completely set up before getting an incubator, then that is what you should have said in the first place. Perhaps this person already has the housing covered and if not maybe wants to get it all at once or maybe just wanted to start researching what's available. Either way it's that person's money and if they want to buy an incubator and not use it right away it's their choice. A better answer would have been to suggest where/what type to buy.

I never told him to do anything. I asked a question, and he gave me his reasoning. I NEVER said to not build an incubator, and I never told him to do anything but what he is doing. Not sure where you thought I did, but if you can point it out, I'd be greatly appreciative.

I asked a question, and he answered it. You're acting like the world is going to end at noon today. LOL.

[David Kwok]

You guyz better watch out before you get Magnumed LOL

[marisa]

You people need to relax. No one except Jeff, myself included, had anything to do with this until you found Jeffs answer unfit.

Tim Cranwills post is 100% right on IMHO. Not only that, but the thread starter ANSWERED his question! LOL

Marisa

[Canada_Club]

Ok, what's Magnumed??? I'm too curious not to ask! LOL!

[BoidKeeper]

If one of your parents has blue eyes and you have brown eyes, you are 100% het for blue eyes.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
In Jeff's words, "Magnum will make you cry."

[smeagel]

So anyway, to get back to snakes instead of bashing eachother, i'm interested in everything and anything, that i need to do and know to hatch healthy ball pythons. And i'd rather get the info and advice now so i have it instead of getting it at the last moment and be rushed to learn as much as i can in a short time. And i do have a pair of stripes that i want to breed this winter, that was the main reason i asked, the pastel i want is for a pastel and stripe project down the road.any and all advice is appreciated.

[BoidKeeper]

I would invest in the Ball Python Manual and Ball Python Breeding by Dr. Mark Seaward.
Cheers,
Trevor

[daver676]

You're acting like the world is going to end at noon today.

It is? In that case, I'll take that axanthic bp over there sir. Can I write you a cheque? ;)

[David Kwok]

for anyone who doesnt know Jeff's Nick is Zoolander.... Male model of the decade lol

:)

[BoidKeeper]

Why Zoolander you might be asking? Well if you ever saw him you'd reallize what a pretty (wanna be) boy he is.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Jeff_Favelle]

You clowns are off the Christmas list. Oh yeah, that's right, I said it.

Blue steel signing off.............;)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Smeagel, the best incubators are the ones you build. There's a few PROVEN models that will work wonders for any eggs you might get. You just have to tailor it to your needs. Plus, if you build it yourself, you'll learn a TON more in the process. Time is on your side, so I'd research the various types and then get hammering! I'm biased, and I would go with the aquarium fish heater (don't skimp on quality) and insulated box for any amount of eggs under 15 clutches. Anything more than that, and I would just dedicate a small insulated room to incubating eggs with an oil-filled on a 1500W Helix system.

:D

[smeagel]

Thank you very much jeff, i appreciate your advice.

[Jeff_Favelle]

No problem man. If you search wayy waaay way back in the "breeding/incubation" forum, I think you'll see a bunch of discussions and pictures with me, Trev (Boidkeeper), and JDouglas about incubators. That should send you on your way (or create more, complicated questions, LOL!!).

Best of luck.

[smeagel]

LOL, i'm sure i'll be back to ask more questions about what i see and read. They maybe simple and stupid questions so try not to lsugh tooo too much.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I can't promise anything.......heh heh.....;)