Boardwalk properties banning reptiles

[Invictus]

Well, I'm looking around for a new place since the house is getting a bit too expensive. I decided to look into some Boardwalk properties, since I have rented from them before, and they do have some very nice places around Calgary.

Well, being the honest individual that I am, I asked if reptiles were allowed, since cats and dogs, and birds were allowed, only to find out that they have a ban on reptiles in their properties.

Well, disgusted with this, I decided to write to their head office. The repsonse I got made me so mad I was seeing red.

Here's my letter:

I don't know what this is worth, but I would like to inform you of my disgust for your prejudicial pet policy.

I am a responsible tenant, and a former renter of a boardwalk property in Alberta. Since moving out, I have acquired quite a few of my absolute favorite animals; reptiles. I am dissatisfied with my current living situation, and I wanted to move back into a Boardwalk property, since I was always satisfied with my treatment despite the fact that I had to break my lease 1 month early in order to move on an opportunity for a house. I have since found out that Boardwalk will not allow reptiles, and I cannot think of one reason other than prejudice that would lead to this policy.

FACT: Reptiles are much quieter than dogs, cats, or birds.
FACT: Reptiles are completely non-allergenic.
FACT: Dogs are responsible for literally thousands of human injuries per year.
FACT: Not one reptile-related injury has been reported in Canada for over 5 years.
FACT: Responsible owners such as myself ensure that the enclosures the reptiles are kept in are 100% escape proof.
FACT: Clean reptile cages have no smell whatsoever, whereas cat litter boxes can leave smells lingering for weeks, and in some cases, cat musk has been known to stink up carpets so badly that they need to be replaced. Reptiles are utterly incapable of this.
FACT: Reptiles are no louder than fish.

In light of the facts above, there is not one good reason to ban legal reptiles from your properties if such animals as cats and dogs are allowed.

This comes as a huge disappointment to me, since I was planning to rent a Boardwalk property long-term. Though I know that this means nothing to a large rental company, since you WILL find a tenant to occupy the space that I would have otherwise occupied, I have every intention of making your prejudicial anti-reptile policy very well known to the reptile community, and to various Consumer Advocacy groups, which may take exception to the allowance of pets that are known and proven nuisances, and the banning of pets based on fear, prejudice, or simply unfounded principles.

If I am mistaken about this, and the reptile policy is NOT handed down from Boardwalk's head office, then please email the CSR at Oak Hill Estates in Calgary and inform her that the bad publicity of discriminating against someone's pets while allowing other pets is NOT good for business. If this is a Boardwalk policy, please explain to me the reasons behind it so that I don't go to the media, Consumer Advocacy groups, and reptile community (which is much larger than you think) with misappropriated information.

Thank you in advance for your time and serious attention to this discriminatory matter.

Sincerely,

Ken LePage

Well, here's the response I got:

Good morning,

Thank you for bringing your concern to our attention.

As a Landlord we do have the right to pick and choose, which pets we wish to permit, in our buildings. Some people are fearful of these types of pets so in order to prevent chaos we do not allow exotic pets or reptiles in our buildings. If we permit your reptiles then we have to make allowances for other customers that wish to house reptiles. We have set guidelines and we will adhere to them.

We are sorry that we were unable to accommodate you. We do hope that you will find suitable accommodations.

Sincerely,
Customer Service
Boardwalk Rental Communities


In order to prevent CHAOS????? Excuse me?????

For starters, I don't invite all of my neighbors in to see my collection. I'm smarter than that.

Even when moving in, they would be in snake bags. Nobody would see them.

Here's the other kicker .... they do allow birds. Are birds not an exotic pet? Are there not people out there who are afraid of dogs?

Now, I do realize that it IS their right to decide which pets to allow.... but obviously they are picking and choosing based on unfounded and discriminatory policies.

If anyone here would like to write to Boardwalk to express your own views, their address is service@bwalk.com . Please keep it professional if you do, we don't want the herp community being perceived wrong.

I'm calling Housing & Consumer affairs to lodge an official complaint, which there will be nothing done about, but ya know what? Nobody ever got anything changed by being silent, either. We need to all work together to help stp the discrimination against reptiles, because this is how they get banned to begin with - discrimination.

Just thoguht I'd share my rant.

Ken

[marisa]

Well I agree to some extent. But in reality, you already answered yourself. They are a private company and can choose which animals to allow in their buildings.

Frankly allowing many tenants to own reptiles IS creating chaos because of so many "whoops my snake escaped" people. Until reptile keepers in general get more government support, and stop these stupid mistakes (lose animals, disgusting conditions, taking giant snakes outside for everyone to see and keeping collections of 500+ animals when they shouldnt be, raising their own feeders which STINKS! etc etc) then we can't expect a private company to give a crap. And like you said, they don't have too. They might not like the color green and because of that ban them. That's their choice though.

Good luck house hunting though. I'd try and buy. :P

Marisa

[Big_V]

SOOOOOOOOOOOO BS. Once again its someone just playing the role of what i say goes. That really sucks Ken that you cant move into a new place, which you want, because they think it will create CHAOS. I dont get how it creates chaos that you have reptiles. Its not like they are going out on other peoples lawns and doing there business. They arent allowed to roam free so whats the big deal. Good luck in finding a new place man.
Cheers, Ryan

[ReneeB]

Well said Ken.. I'd love to know what BREEDS of dogs they allow.. I personally have nothing against APBTs, Rotties, etc breeds but tons of people have fears of them, and have caused them to be banned in other places. This is clearly discrimination towards our community. Birds are more of a noise issue than any reptile I know.. (well maybe a pissed off Tokay Gecko is louder, but..) What about the health hazards to the tenants that are allergic to dogs and cats, and the 'non exotic' pets others have.

*sigh*

[Greg West]

My fiancee used to work at boardwalk and as far as I remember they only allowed small breed dogs, and cats. They do not let you keep big breed dogs. Al least not in the apartment complexes. This could be different in the townhouses. As far as I believe this type of rule is becuase of the inexperienced herp keepers that have animals escape.

It is their property and as such they will set the rules. I am glad I am not a renter any more because of this.Definitely not a bad idea to voice your opinion, but due to the fact that reptiles keepers are a minority compared to cat / dog /non pet people, it would be pretty hard to sway their decision about reptiles.

Greg West

My fiancee ran into a lot of renters with reptiles but never mentioned any problems about them having them. I think if you had to move in, don't let them know, but you are running the risk down the road if they find out. Private renters are much easier to deal with but then you basically eliminate all apartments.

[BoAddict]

i know none of us are rich enough but couldnt you try to find a lawyer that would work cheap enough to fight this , this is a discrimination case and discrimination is illegal

i wish i could win a huge lottery jackpot so i could do the good fight for all of us

[gonesnakee]

Ken I'll state the obvious. It's impossible to win an argument with an ignorant person. Whether their ignorance is due to lack of knowledge or understanding or they are informed & are ignorant just because they personally dislike them & think that everyone else in the whole world should live by their standards. Sad anyhow. What about the places that won't even let you live there with kids? The fight is a good one, but we may just be bashing our heads. We are headbangers though now aren't we LOL Mark
P.S. keep up the good work looks like we need to work on both housing & health authorities, DOH!

[marisa]

I don't really see how a private company not allowing exotic snakes into their building is "discrimination"

Can no one else see why they made this rule? Not for us responsible keepers, but to prevent problems caused by irresponsible people who allow these snakes to escape, smell and god knows what else.

They do not allow me to keep farm animals in my area as it is not zoned for farming. But if I breed exotic chickens as a hobby, would my neighborhood be discriminating against me since I can't keep them here? No, its called find a farm zoned place to live or don't keep chickens.

I am agreeing that reptile hobby is generally treated like crap. But I certaintly do not think a private company choosing to avoid the problems that can most certaintly come with reptile owners is discrimination. Just MHO. :) Sometimes I feel some of the hobbys problems are created by us keepers ignoring the truth of the situation....reptiles are not the perfect pet. Things happen, accidents happen and dumb people buy them and do stupid things. Ignoring the problems they can bring won't help us as much as being silent wont help either.

Marisa

[Invictus]

Yeah, we're going to have fun with those health authorities.

I'm not looking to sue them because they are not doing anything illegal. It would be a different story if they said "no pets allowed", just as if they say "no children allowed." But what if they said only female children allowed, or only white children allowed, or only Asian children allowed? There would be an OUTRAGE! This is my point - if you're going to allow pets, allow pets. If you're going to allow only caged pets or only *quiet* pets, fine. But allowing known loud pets like birds and dogs, and allergenic pets like cats, and not allowing reptiles shows the utter ignorance and stupidity that is pervading this country.

Maybe if enough people write to them though, they will change their mind. And if they don't, oh well. I'll find someone else to give my money to.

[Invictus]

Marisa, there are literally thousands more problems with irresponsible dog owners than reptile owners. If they were looking only at facts and statistics, they would be more like my current landlord who, when I signed the lease, said no pets because of the allergens they carry, the nuisance that they can become in the neighborhood, etc. When I asked if I could have snakes, he said "Yeah, those will be ok, as long as you dont' let let them roam around the house unattended."

Now THAT is the difference between fact and discrimination.

[gonesnakee]

I have lived in my duplex with at times upto 300+ snakes. Most of my neighbours etc. except for my friends don't even know they exist & those that do only because I tell them. Animal control comes around all the time to deal with dogs & cats either because they are attacking people (dogs) or killing things (cats) or just being a general problem. My snakes have never caused any traffic accidents by running across the road in front of a vehicle either. There are also problems with the Cats spraying, pooping in flowerbeds & gardens, fighting/breeding at night (real pleasant in the summer) & digging threw the trash cans etc. etc. etc. They (dogs & cats) are known to literally destroy carpets, lawns etc. ask any landlord. 2 words describe a pet kept properly. Controlled & contained. Dog & Cat people still can't seem to get this straight more often than not, but we reptile people are continually singled out. My snakes have never scared anyone or destroyed their property or caused them any grief due to noise etc. because they are properly controlled & contained yet I see people cross the street all the time just so they won't have to walk by certain peoples yards which contain barking dogs even though they are controlled (?) & contained. Prejudge pure & simple NUFF SAID!
Mark
P.S. Let it be known that I do like dogs & cats, but dislike the ways they are kept more often then not. Remember 2 words CONTROLLED & CONTAINED!

[Invictus]

Amen Mark! If only people could get those 2 words through their thick skulls.

[justinO]

if you want to live there, you can, and you can have all the reptiles you want that are not against local by-laws.

check for yourself, the human society brought this issue all the way to the supreme court. i suggest that property group should get out of the 1980's and read the damn Act.

saying you can't have any kind of pet is like saying you can't have a child.

[Invictus]

And they have the right to refuse me tenancy on any basis they see fit. However, if there is such an Act in Canada, I'd love to shove it down their throats. Do you have any more info about this Justin? A link to something official would be really nice, and would certainly help my case.

[tHeGiNo]

Common now Marisa, there is a HUGE difference between breeding chickens and housing / breeding reptiles, lets me serious here. That is comparing apples and cucumbers...LOL. And lets be serious, all of your arguments here are irrelevant to a certain extent.

Sometimes I feel some of the hobbys problems are created by us keepers ignoring the truth of the situation....reptiles are not the perfect pet. Things happen, accidents happen and dumb people buy them and do stupid things. Ignoring the problems they can bring won't help us as much as being silent wont help either.

No pet is perfect. Dogs go to the washroom on peoples lawns, they bark, they have the potential to bite, and boy can they ever stink. Cats also defecate on peoples lawns, they can stink, they can bite, they can scratch, they are allergenic, they can cause a lot of noise as well. And birds, I am sure we all know the noise potential here. What about all the dog owners who neglect their pets? Trust me, I see at least five a day - and do they not have the potential to escape? And are people not freightened by dogs? The rest of the points made cover it all, but I thought I would throw a few pennies into the discussion.

[marisa]

No there isn't. You cannot have chickens here because of smell. Most people don't like reptiles because of escapes. They are two simple housing issues.

Obviously other animals are just as bad. All the facts you people have pointed out about dogs are common knowledge, but thanks for the common sense refresher??? The issue is not dogs. I agree with his post, which obviously Gino you ignored me stating, I just do not agree with blindly thinking reptiles in certain hands cause no issues, and ignoring the issues that ARE in our hobby.

I feel real anger and our energy should also be mainly directed to those who create these issues within the hobby. Again just stating how I feel so you can relax Gino and take a breath.

Marisa

[gonesnakee]

An open mind will take you a long way in life kids, Mark
P.S. I think we should make everything illegal because it will prevent idiots from doing stupid things, yeah LOL:rolleyes:

[Invictus]

This thread is not about the idiots within this hobby, and like I said, if it was about facts and statistics, dogs would have been banned in cities a LONG time ago, and all reptiles would still be perfectly legal. It's not the idiots within the hobby that create discrimination against reptiles - it's ignorance that causes it. Plain and simple. Of course it can't be ignored when someone gives their boa constrictor free reign of the house, but these people are MUCH fewer and MUCH further in between than morons who let their yappy little dogs bark until the wee hours of the morning.

[justinO]

*pulls out hair*

I just talked to the Alberta SPCA, apparently they are not like Ontario at all....... the landlord can state which pets are allowed and which are not (and even ask for a fee to cover any damages a pet may cause?!?!?! holy crap!!!!!)

Sorry to get your hopes up...... Alberta sucks!!! I like it here in ontario where i can tell my landlord to shove it, my 15 snakes get to stay where they are!

Sorry again, i really thought it was it was a Canada wide thing..... maybe you can start the movement so it should be!

Good luck finding a place....... may i suggest omitting the fact you have reptiles? sounds like it's the only way in sometimes!

I have to go now.... I have a rampaging, piano playing, child eating, super venomous python that convinces teenagers to smoke on the loose...... thank god i took the death ray off him!
:P

Jessy

[Burium]

You should all check out what is going on in Norway. ALL herps are illegal to own. And if you get caught, the animals are killed. Some are killed so quickly that they aren't even properly identified. That, I think, is worth fighting for. No offense. I mean having a house to live in is important and all, but Norway's explaination for their law is because of a potential salmonella "invasion". Anyway. If you want to read more there is a post farther down in the general forum. I hope you have some good luck finding a place.

Kelly

[latazyo]

all of the facts are true, and I am on your side, however, you may have received a more tolerable response had you been more professional in your first letter

if I were reading your letter, your first sentence would put me in a sour mood right away and would most likely affect how I read into the rest of your letter

[BoAddict]

ken can i suggest you just come move to ontario
the laws are extreme in some areas but most are pretty lax

[Removed_2815]

Yup, Justin's correct about the way things are done in Ontario. Obviously, the landlord can deny tenancy from the onset without giving a reason (or, rather, it's easy for them to make up a reason to satisfy the Landlord/Tenant Act). However, I have had this problem in the past and have always come out on top.
I have rented where the lease says "no pets." I, of course, move in with all my reptile pets. Rarely do things escalate from there but one time my landlords were made aware of my apartments' contents through an illegal entry. Basically, the Landlord/Tenant Act in Ontario goes like this:
The landlord cannot evict the tenant based on the fact that he/she has pets (despite what it says on the lease). However, the landlord can evict the tenant if the pets meet any one or all of the following criteria: 1) The pets pose a danger to the general public (large constrictors, venomous animals, vicious canines, etc), 2) The pets are causing allergic reactions to another person in the dwelling, and/or 3) The pets are causing a disturbance to other tenants and/or the landlord (barking dogs, meowing cats etc).
Obviously, for most reptiles, it is impossible to apply any of these conditions and everyone's safe in Ontario.
Perhaps Alberta can follow suit....
Cheers,
Ryan

[Janiman]

I live in a medium sized city about 40 minutes west of Toronto. The laws here state that, even if the landlords policy prohibits pets, that a person can not be evicted for owning them and keeping them in their residence. Even if the aminal is a breach of city bi-law, they can only make you get rid of it if there is a complaint from a neighbour... and only the prohibited animal(s). You should check into it as my current building policy states "Absolutely no pets", yet my building has numerous cats, birds and a rather large Doberman Pincer that the owners flaunt proudly down the hallway several times per day on their way for walks!!

[Invictus]

I've considered moving to Ontario, but the rents there are enough to make me gag. I like living in nice, cheap, Alberta. :) It's something to think about though.

[Cruciform]

I don't think it would really matter if you lived in Ontario or Alberta. The laws regarding reptiles as pets aren't going to relax and will, in all probability, become more restrictive.

We have no diplomatic organization that represents us. Just sending letters or making a call doesn't typically work, as they'll just write you off as a lone fanatic, an aberration. Lobbies are effective because they fund the campaigns of politicians.

What we need is an association of reptile owners with a budget for helping those slimy scumbags, er politicians ;), that would be of most benefit to our cause.

[Darren179]

well if somebody was willing to step up to start and organization I would bet they could get alot of support.

[Wizwise2000]

My 8 bedroom country home is $450 + utilities. I don't know what people consider cheap, but I think it's cheap. Then again maybe I think $450/month is cheap because I live in Ontario LOL.

But, Justin is right, a landlord here can't kick you out because you have reptiles.

I wish the best of luck to you Ken. I think it's a load of BS what they can get away with.

Cheers
Shane

[Jayson]

To all who compare dog and cat problems to reptiles, the reason dogs and cats are not banned is there are millions of people in this country that love them and will stop at no cost to protect their rights to keep them legal, and people in the reptile community keep thier mouths shut and hide them so they can keep them legal or not.
This is a fact!!

[Gary D.]

well if somebody was willing to step up to start and organization I would bet they could get alot of support.


No they wouldn't. It has been tried before and currrently with the Canadian Boid Genetics Database. It has failed before and I will likley close the database this summer due to lack of involvement. Reptile people are too busy hiding and bitching, and few are actually willing to stand up. Even many clubs and societies are not interested in Nation wide cooperation. The reason that discussion forums do so well is that reptile keepers for the most part are good for a lot of talk and little else.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

GD

[nita]

I have to agree on a lot of accounts, as for getting the herp communities involved, it is almost like pulling teeth, just try to get volunteers for a reptile show!! LOL:D

As for the living arrangements, look for an assumable mortgage that requires no or low down payment and no bank qualifying. I only pay $408 a month for my mortgage and since it is mine no one can tell me what i can own. Way back when I lived in apartments and had to find a place I just said I had a tank and they very seldom asked what was in the tank. My house by the way is small but if I were to sell it now I would be up 18K or so for paying less than I would have for rent somewhere else for the last 4 yrs.

So my final word. Don't waste your money renting, just buy something. :cool:

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

INVICTUS:

Very good post.

Good to see you chose to be honest on the collection before renting in that location.

Great to see you did your research and tried to explain your point to them in a professional manner.

Over all a great post and very informative.

Keep us posted on any new outcomes from this.

Cya...

Tony

[tHeGiNo]

Marisa, with all do respect I think you are the one who needs to relax and take a breather here, LOL, as I was just trying to have a civilized conversation. Fact is, you said it was not discriminative towards reptiles, I was trying to say that it was.

The issue is not dogs. I agree with his post, which obviously Gino you ignored me stating, I just do not agree with blindly thinking reptiles in certain hands cause no issues, and ignoring the issues that ARE in our hobby.

Sorry if you missed what I was trying to get to, but again I was just trying to imply how reptiles are infact discriminated upon, as animals which cause more harm / chaos are allowed, blah blah blah. No need to whip out the attitude stick on me, lol.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Reptile people are too busy hiding and bitching, and few are actually willing to stand up.

I casn only speak for myself, but if I'm busy doing anything OTHER than cleaning cages, feeding, answering emails, ftp-ing web stuff, please, I'd like to hear about. This coupled with having a life, playing sports, sleeping, and occasionally getting hammered, I'd like to know when I'd be "hiding and bitching"?

LOL.

Again, I only speak for myself.

[V.hb]

Once again the blame is in the wrong place... I wouldnt want to be a landlord responsible for telling my tenants that a big snake is loose, or any snake for that matter... Like ive said in other posts, there are far more plain IDIOTS in this hobby than responsible, smart owners... How does this company know you're responsible? and not just another dumbass thats lost reptiles on their property in the past. I would try to explain how you secure your reptiles, etc.... Or talk to your local MP (in ontario, anyways) about trying to work with the bi-laws on properly housing reptiles in order to prevent discrimination.

[Invictus]

Well, here's the update....

My current landlord is coming over on Wednesday to do an inspection, and to talk about the rent for our next lease. The market is in my favor right now - comparable houses in my area are going for about $150 less than what we're paying right now.

If I can prove to the landlord that there are no long-term ramifications of letting me keep the herps (ie, SMELL), he's going to let me keep them. If he agrees to lower the rent, we're staying. So, things look ok.... for now.