UV Fluorescent VS Mercury Vapor.

[Icefire]

I did little research and here is 3 links:

http://asrasouthwales.bravepages.com/mercuryvaporbulbsfacts.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/uvbanne.html
http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html

Most of them state that Mercury Vapor lamp put out TOO much
UVB (hazardous to human and possibly reptile) and light.
They were designed for Zoo and VERY big enclosure (6-10 feet deep and more)

They put off incontrolable heat.

"MV lamps used for reptile applications have an AVERAGE life of 6 months. Some will last shorter, some longer, but with the combined study of over 400 lamps, 6 months is the average. "

"Mercury Vapor bulbs will decay on the AVERAGE of 70%. Some will decay less and some will decay more. Simple terms, a 160wt SBMV FLOOD lamp that starts at 80uW/cm2@12" will decay (on the average) of 64uW/cm2 giving you 16uW/cm2@12". Most of the decay happens very quickly in the first few days."

Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 give off 10 uW/cm2@12" for 1 to 1.5 years.
so it's not worthing having only 60% more UVB and having to buy
3 MV lamp for the life of the Reptisun. you just need 2 Fluorescent tube.

One point is Reptile in the wild aren't under the sun 12hours a day.
Yes they need UVB/UVA but not THAT much.
if they get 1-4 hours/day it's much. we provide them with 10-14 hours a day with UVA/UVB from Tube and calcium supplement + already in food.

so MY OPPINION. I will stick to 48" fluorescent with Basking sport using regular incadescent bulb controled with a dimmer.


Any oppinion/experience ?

[Stockwell]

Originally posted by Icefire

One point is Reptile in the wild aren't under the sun 12hours a day.
Yes they need UVB/UVA but not THAT much.

Any oppinion/experience ? [/B]

Alot of Reptiles require NO light at all, and stay hidden from the suns rays during the day.
If you're a leopard gecko keeper, why are you worried about UV at all? With the exception of Phelsuma and perhaps a couple others, most geckos are nocturnal and can be kept and bred in near darkness.
lights are primarily for keepers to see what's in the cage

[Icefire]

I'm planning to get Collared Lizard and my girlfriend want some Beardies. So I did some looking because I'll be making another
terrarium and needed to plan how I would light/heat it.

[LISA127]

I prefer the UV flourescent tubes combined with spot bulbs. I don't like the MV bulbs.

[wingl]

I'm using some halogen under cabinet spot lights that I thought would provide heat as well as light. Never thought about the UV output. I keep snakes in the enclosure (I know they don't need UV), and don't want to over expose them. Any thoughts on this matter?

[Linds]

Fluorescent tubes are worthless IMHO for providing an adequate source of UV. 24 hours of sitting 6" from the unobstructed bulb is the equivalent to 5 minutes of natural sunlight. At some screen and distance and you are left with almost nil. I don't use any artificial UV lighting for my diurnal herbivores, but house them outside during the summer months. Carnivorous and omnivorous animals can process dietary d3 fine and can be without any UV lighting so long as their diet is correct. If I were to use an artificial UV, the only one I would consider is the mercury vapour bulbs. They are supposed to output the same amount of UV that the Mediteranean receives in the afternoon. We used them at my old work and they were fine. Although some of them were in giant enclosures, some were in 150 gallon or so sized enclosures and were fine.

[Icefire]

yeah IT's sure that mercury vapor for 150Gallons + may be okay
but for 30-100 gallons.. mercury output Way too much UV...
Fluorescent are good at only 12"max. if you put them at 24" there
will be no UV absorbed.

but As I can see on those webpage. Mercury vapor are dangerous
for reptile and human in short distance. like a few foot.

[Linds]

The beardies at work would get right up close to them, from the time they were hatchlings to the time they were producing themself. The lights hung inside the tank and the beardies were able to get as close as 1'. Years of being kept like this, I'm sure if it was dangerous they wouldn't have grown in to healthy, reproducing adults- no vision or skin problems. I've actually never heard of them producing too much UV, the main concern is they can get pretty warm, so you can't really use them on a little tiny tank, unless I suppose if you suspended it above.

[Icefire]

Linds, about your "5 minutes" How can you base yourself on that?
and your PowerSun, how much they are? that's make no sense to me.

now I have discovered a group who DO test their bulb/tube for
UVB.
here is the difference between Reptisun 5.0 and PowerSun MV.

Tester Brand Watts Type Time Used Tested at UVB Reading.
Carole Powersun 100 watt flood 2 months 12" 10
Jen Powersun 100 watt Flood 2 months 12" 10
Darry PowerSun 100 watt flood 2 month 12" 16

Beautiful Powersun 160 watt flood brand new 12" 47
Darry PowerSun 160 watt flood 2 months 12" 36
Darry PowerSun 160 watt flood 2 months 12" 36



Darry Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" brand new 12" 21/ends and 32/middle
Veronica Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" 6.5 months 12" 15
Diane ReptiSun 5.0 40W/48" 8 months 12" 9
Jenn Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" 10 months 12" 13
Darry Iguanaht 5.0 40W/48" 1 year 12" 20/ends and 30/middle
Darry Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" 2+ years 12" 18/ends and 27/middle
In fact, PowerSun do output more, but take MORE watts.
so Reptisun give more UVB/Watts VS PowerSun.

Those PowerSun are in fact 160Watts Versus 40Watts Tube.
so if you would want to be fair, take 3 to 4 time the value of any
tube (48 inch, 40Watts) versus 160 Watts Power Sun.
I.E. Reptisun Brand new (32 in the middle) would be in fact 128 if
you use 4 Tube which totalise 160Watts.

We need to compare banana with banana not, banana VS apple.
so Watts VS Watts would be the best thing to look as a base.

Those are from that group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

I have modified 3 value that were 8" and 10" and not 12"
using rules of 3


And the Sun in Lat 16-22 North, Long 41-05 East - Red Sea near Saudi/Yemin Border IS at NOON in October in the same Reading of those Lamps: 344 UVB

From Florida, 16 november: 13:00 , 24-30 N 83-28 W off Florida at Sea : 260 UVB

So the Sun in autumn is only 10 times more UVB emiting than
a Reptisun 5.0 at 12". so 14 hours would equal 1.4 hours of sun .
not your 5 minutes you were sawing.

give me Facts that you Powersun are in fact better than reptisun please. I'm curious.

P.S. This isn't a personal attack/challenge but at way so everyone
could benefit from our finding.
I'll try to buy one of these UVB tester. that groups sell some.

[Icefire]

Wingl
How many Watts are those Halogen and how close are they from
the hot spot? how hot is it?
I saw some nice 12 Volts Halogen with CRI of 100 (Color Rendering Index) which is the same as Day light.
they are for arts/painting

[Linds]

Originally posted by Icefire
Linds, about your "5 minutes" How can you base yourself on that?
and your PowerSun, how much they are? that's make no sense to me.


Huh? :confused:

[Dani33]

Here's a site that has uvb output for various bulbs and the sun at various places.
http://russiantortoise.org/uvb.htm
I tend to agree with Linds. The fluorescents are near worthless. If you look at this chart and compare to the sun, which is the natural source, the fluorescent bulbs don't compare. Also, if your worried about price, the MV Bulbs are gauranteed for a year and are near $100. They are said to last two years. The flourescents are $45.00 and last 6 months. The MV bulbs are the better deal, wouldn't you say? How can they get too much? When none of the bulbs produce as much UV as the sun?

Also, too much heat? The 100 watt I would say puts out heat like a 60 watt. Certainly not too much IMO.

[Icefire]

I dunno who to Quote but here what you said Linds:
05-03-04 03:14 PM

Registered: Feb-2002 - Location: southern ontario - Posts: 8263

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fluorescent tubes are worthless IMHO for providing an adequate source of UV. 24 hours of sitting 6" from the unobstructed bulb is the equivalent to 5 minutes of natural sunlight.


I just dont understand your tought about those "5 minutes" and
...

Dani33,

I know those number, these are Factory number. "brand new"
ReptiSun 5.0 as 10microWatts/cm2 etc...

http://asrasouthwales.bravepages.com/mercuryvaporbulbsfacts.htm and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

those people do test there MV bulb, they say that PowerSun/SelfBallasted MV bulb break around after 6 months and
are a pain in the *** to get it back under garanty. most people just buy another new one.

about the "6 months" well Zoomed say they are good for 1-1.5 years (ReptiSun 5.0).

PowerSun 100 Watts Output about 1/6 of a 160Watts based on
the yahoo groups I quote earlier.

and PowerSun Decay their Output in a few weeks of operation..
I gave 3 links. Just Read all them (I did.) and get me back with it.

about the "How can they get too much", There is MV bulbs that can give 1000-1500 UVB, which is 2-3 time more than the sun:
Westron R40 Spot 60Watts new 12" 1700

Just that 60 Watts MV bulb give pretty much uvb....

if you can go on the groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/message/1264


Those peoples test them. so I guess it's trustworthy...


P.S. Sorry Linds if it's sounded rude or something with the ":(" you said. It wasn't meant to be

[Linds]

Unfortunately because most of what I have read was years or months ago, I can't provide the cold hard papers themselves thus not making the greatest arguement. I've just retained information from results or whatever documents I have read over time. Even everything you have posted (minus the MK stuff), still proves that MV bulbs are superior to fluorescent tubes and the optimum method for heating reptiles. I personally excercise caution when reading anything from the MK website as a lot of it is innaccurate, and in some cases dangerously so. From everything that I have read, and everything that I have personally experienced, there isn't a doubt in my mind that they are THE method for diurnal reptiles. Not only does it give max output of UV, but it also provides heat.

Originally posted by Icefire
give me Facts that you Powersun are in fact better than reptisun please. I'm curious.


I don't know where any of the pages I have read in the past, or where the people of the tortoise trust got theirs from, but it still sides to say the same.


from tortoisetrust.org
At 30 cm, it approximates that at midday in the Mediterranean. At 60 cm, it produces far more than even the best UV-B fluorescent tubes can manage at half the distance.


p.s.- I made the :confused: to express my confusion as to what you were asking me, not a :( ....... ;)

[Icefire]

yeah but from that yahoo groups who do test for uvb, 100W powerSun don't even give half or the third of the uvb of a ReptiSun 5.0 tube.

PowerSun DO give more when 160W are used, but I still think you
could just take 2 4feet tube and have equal or more.

Problem with MV lamp is that the UVB decay a lot in the 1st weeks.
so you end up with maybe half/quarter of the UV it was means to give.

for how long do you have powersun and how long to they last?
some site say that the incandescent (sp?) wire that act like a starter/balast, is weak and break easily.

what are the distance from the hot spot and temperature?
like 1-2 foot? must be like 120F or more?

[wingl]

Originally posted by Icefire
Wingl
How many Watts are those Halogen and how close are they from
the hot spot? how hot is it?
I saw some nice 12 Volts Halogen with CRI of 100 (Color Rendering Index) which is the same as Day light.
they are for arts/painting


The halogens are from Home Depot and are 15watts. The cube is ~2'x2'x2'. The snakes have areas to hide from the light, but I'm now worried about the exposure. It heats the enclosure to about 85F during the day and my heat pad takes care of the evenings. I gotta tell you, it was the biggest mistake of my life to use halogens. I can't keep the humidity levels up past 50% and only until the sponge dries out. (1 day) Gotta mist every single day. I even have a live plant in there and the plant dries out just as quick. Next time....stick to florecents!

[Icefire]

I'm gonna use fluorescent to light/UVB, but I need a heat source.
I need a 115F hot spot, with ~40% humidity, So I guess halogen
are just okay for me

could you look at the "hot spot" at around 12" of the light please?

[wingl]

Much luck to you. Just keep in mind...I could only get the humidity up to that level. Most of the time it's at 10-20%. If I forget to mist or the soaked sponge I keep in there dries out, the humidity drops to <10%. The enclosure I have can hold humidity well enough when I turn off the lights. I really don't recommend them unless you have a desert species. My Rosy Boa loves it.

[Icefire]

Well I'm gonna house Collared Lizard and my gf will have Bearded Dragon
I guess they don't need much humidity, they are "semi" desertic
species. so 20-40 will be enought.

[Linds]

I don't use them myself as I don't use any artificial UV lights for my reptiles, as I house them outdoors during the warmer months instead and feel this is more than sufficient considering they can store it away for years :cool: We have always used them at work, we don't monitor how often we change the lights however so I couldn't tell you the active life of them. I can't remember as they closed down shop a while ago, but I think the hot spot in the beardie tank hovered around 105 degrees. :sun:

[ReptilesReign]

Originally posted by Icefire
Well I'm gonna house Collared Lizard and my gf will have Bearded Dragon
I guess they don't need much humidity, they are "semi" desertic
species. so 20-40 will be enought.

20-40 % is more than enough. I live in New Mexico and have Beardies - humidity drops to 7 percent here in the summer and averages 12-20 percent year round where I live. The collared Lizzies and Dragons will do great for you ! Easy care fellas.

About the MV bulbs.. - That UVB group at yahoo is the best resource for info. I would consider using an MV for rehabilitative purposes for an animal with MBD, but not for general husbandry. You have to invest in a UV meter if you're going to go MV , or you never know for sure what the output is at a given time. MV's need to be on an adequate surge protector also because power surges damage the filaments, reducing output. It gets costly.

As mentioned, super large ( tall) enclosures would benefit since the UVB reaches 36 inches. Personally, i dont have any enclosurers that tall ;)

Good luck to you and enjoy the new additions when you get them!
Rommie
P.s
Check out my website , i have links for a crash course in Beardie set up and care.