Leucistic Southern Pine or Texas Rat

[Tigergenesis]

I'm looking for something Leucistic and have settled on one of these two species. I was wondering if anyone has experience with either of these species and might offer some experience, suggestions, etc.

Thanks!

[Vanan]

All depends if you like Pines or Ratsnakes. Different animals, behaviourwise.

[Tigergenesis]

I've never owned either a Pine or a Ratsnake so i'm interested in hearing the general differences in their behaviour.

Thanks.

[scalawag]

I have a Leucy Texas Rat for almost 2 yrs. Hes about 2 now. H was nippy when I got him but thats prob to be expected. He calmed down over the next several months. Texas Rats have what I think is an undeserved reputation for being onery. I work with lots at the zoo where I volunteer and they are great to work with. At least thats my experience. Good luck.

[Syco]

I have to agree that the Texas Rats have gotten an undeserved bad reputation. We have a pair of Lucy Texas rats that are almost as calm as our corn snakes. The female nipped a couple of times... well didn't really bite just sorta put her mouth on you, but is perfectly fine now.
I don't know much about the pines.

[Beardonicus]

Leucy Tx. Rats don't have a bad reputation because of their behavior, instead its because of their inferior screwed up genetics. Back in the 80s, they were inbred so severely that most of the ones today are suffering the consequences of an extremely shallow gene pool. Thats why they often have the bugged out eyes (not normal!) and tend to act a bit psycho. Many will strike at water and show apparent neurological deficiencies.

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

I have no experience with the Leucistic Texas Rats, but I do know almost every pine snake i've worked with has been totally psycho!!:) , and don't seem to ever stop biting, babies or adult..

[Syco]

David,
I guess we just got a really good pair of Lucys because ours don't have the bug eyes and their temperment and behavior are just fine. They are two of our favorite snakes that we keep.

[MouseKilla]

Our pine isn't psycho at all, though he'd like you to think that he was. He'll occasionally strike a threatening pose, rarely he'll hiss like a punctured truck tire but it's all show. I can just reach in and pick him up and he'll drop the tough guy stuff right away.

[crimsonking]

Go with a pine.
:Mark

[Beardonicus]

Originally posted by Syco
David,
I guess we just got a really good pair of Lucys because ours don't have the bug eyes and their temperment and behavior are just fine. They are two of our favorite snakes that we keep.

Wow, you've got some special rats, then lol. :D

Do you plan on breeding them? If so, are they an unrelated pair? If not, I definitely wouldn't suggest breeding them.

[Syco]

David,
I got them from Will Bird at the Shelbyville show, I need to ask him about that. I don't know if they are related or not, probably are :( I'm definately going to check to see if he has any unrelated to this pair that are just as nice.

[Beardonicus]

OK, well if you got them from Will that explains why they are above-average. :D I've bought several snakes from him and he has some of the best stock in the area. Are you going to be at the show on May 8th? I'll have a table there, as I'm downsizing my collection.

[gonesnakee]

LTRs & Pines both get bad reps because it seems most people are easily intimidated. I have a little experience with pines & quite a bit with various ratsnakes (LTRs & Transpecos mostly). If you folks want to go around beleiving "old wives tales" LOL & generalizing go ahead. Its been my experience that with the exception of certain specimens (as per any species) they are just being snakes & exhibit such behaviour in hopes they will be left alone. Most calm down nicely once they realize you are not a threat as do most snakes. They are all talk & no action I find. I'm more worried about a Cal-King tagging me then them as it is far more likely to happen (& does LOL) Mark
P.S. I too always recomend breeding unrelated stock!
P.P.S. I hope to produce LTRs this year BTW :D

[Tigergenesis]

What's the difference in size (girthwise) between these two species? As I've never seen a pine snake and I've never seen an adult texas ratsnake.

How's the Shelbyville show? I've only been to the Midwest Indy show and have been thinking of venturing out to shows in other areas, but I'm afraid to just go to one and be disappointed.

Thanks for all your input!

[gonesnakee]

I can't state for sure but I beleive that most Pines get longer & quite a bit thicker than LTRs, probably close to the size of Bullsnakes. So other than looks size could also determine which one for you. Mark

[Beardonicus]

How's the Shelbyville show? I've only been to the Midwest Indy show and have been thinking of venturing out to shows in other areas, but I'm afraid to just go to one and be disappointed.

Tiger, the KY Expo is a bit smaller than the Indy Show, but its a very good show IMO. The vendors are much friendlier than Indy and the animals are healthier also. What it lacks in quantity it makes up for in quality. I will have a table at the May 8th show, so it would be cool if you could come down and check the place out. Here is a link to the show's website: http://www.kentuckyreptileexpo.com

[Tigergenesis]

Thanks for the invite, but I'll have to plan to go to one a little later (short notice). What will you have available this year?

It seems to me to almost be the same species (in general) at the Indy show. In your experience, does there seem to be mostly the same species at the KY Expo?

[Syco]

As far as size on the two, I think Mark is right that the Pines are quite a bit bulkier than the LTRs. I've only been to the Shelbyville show once and that was back in March, things were a bit slow due to everyone concentrating on breeding, and I guess a lot of people just didn't have 03 babies left to sell. Things should be picking up though, I imagine the June show should be a better one. Even with the small amout of vendors at the show, I saw a pretty good variety of snakes and managed to pick up the pair of LTRs and a couple of Hognose.:)

[Beardonicus]

I won't be producing any babies this year as all of my future breeding stock is too young. I'll have a few snakes for sale at the May show, though:

1.1 Pueblan Milks
1.0 Savu Python
0.1 Children's Python
0.0.2 Amazon Tree Boas
0.0.1 Hypo Corn Snake
0.1 Ball Python

[Syco]

Here's a pic of our Male lucy, he's about 10 months old and sweet as can be! In this pic it looks like he has pink eyes but it's just the flash. :) http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/3467Male_lucy_2.jpg

[gonesnakee]

Looking good Sico. My little male thinks hes a bad@ss LOL but is usually just fine once out. I was lucky today for I know have 11 eggs in the incubator also to go along with my now "official" breeding pair. Ah the wait begins LOL Mark

[Syco]

They do have "personality" don't they! :D
My BF and I just love ours and can't wait until they get big, they get a little whiter with each shed. :D

[Lasher]

I have an LTR names IVAN with cool blue eyes. He has good temperment, but can hiss and blow ith the best of them.