tell them apart...

[Yve]

here are three pictures showing, in order, p. curtus, p. breitensteini, p. brongersmai
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/2DSCN0040.JPG
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/2DSCN0041.JPG
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/2DSCN0042.JPG

[Yve]

I photographed these pics from this site...thought it might catch your interests...
http://www.anu.edu.au/BoZo/Scott/PDF%20Files/2001.Keoghetal.P.curtus.pdf

[Smulkin]

Now THAT is some good reading, bro - mighty thanks!

[emroul]

Hey, thanks alot for doing that! It will sure help a lot of people out that are confused about the differences. :)

[axwielding1]

Excellent post. If I find the website again, I'll post. It had a nice side view diagram of a Borneo and Blood showing the scales...
ax.

[Grant vg]

Are these the pics your talking about?
if so, that site is no longer around.
but i will be doing up a brand new caresheet as well as this scalation page this summer on a new site.
Heres the general info anyways, i really enjoy that barker/shine paper, its just a tough read for most people and i figured i would give people more of a visual and straight to the point type explanation...



BORNEO

P. Breitensteini is easily differentiated from P. Brongersmai by having a row of suboculars(4) that divide the base of the orbit (eye) from coming in contact with its supralabials(5).

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/5pics_286-med.jpg

P. Breitensteini is differentiated from P. Curtus in that it’s anterior parietals(5) come in broad contact at the midline suture, where as the anterior parietals in most specimens of P. Curtus come in slight to nil contact with eachother at the midline suture.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/5pics_285-med.jpg


RED BLOOD
It is extremely easy to differentiate P. Brongersmai from P. Curtus and P. Breitensteini.
Unlike the other two, the base of P. Brongersmai’s orbit comes in direct contact with its adjacent supralabials(1), where as, P. Curtus and P. Breitensteini both have a row of suboculars that divide the orbit from coming in contact with the supralabials.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/5pics_287.jpg




BLACK


P. Curtus is easily differentiated from P. Brongersmai by having a row of suboculars(1) that divide the base of the orbit (eye) from coming in contact with its supralabials(2).

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/5pics_289.jpg


P. Curtus is differentiated from P. Breitensteini in that its anterior parietals(AP) have little to no ontact at the midline suture.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/5black_scale.jpg

[sapphire_moon]

Those are some AWESOME pics.

[Yve]

great photos Grant!...thanks for posting all the details;) I was familiar with the positioning of the anterior parietals but a bit foggy on the subocular and surpralabials.

[sapphire_moon]

Ok, I was checking out my snake, and it looks like he has the exact same pattern on the head as the P. Breitensteini, but have NO small scales under the eye. He has 2 largish scales that come up and touch the bottom of his eye. Unless the scales under his eyes are SO tiny that I can't see them. Could that be a possibility?

[Grant vg]

perhaps it is a P. brongersmai (red blood), as both the heads of borneos and bloods are the same on top....
if theres suboculars between the eye and supralabials...there definately noticable..

gvg

[sapphire_moon]

Do they all look the same as babies/yearlings (with the exception of morphs and black bloods), I know that they aren't really supposed to get their colors in until they are about 2/3 yrs old or around those ages?

[sapphire_moon]

never mind, freakin idiots. They told me he was a borneo STP, now when I called them they say, "ya he's a sumatran python. Aren't they all the same!" NO. Thank god I cleared THAT up before he got 5ft+.

I told them to change the panel saying that they were a borneo. so I guess I'm off to change my sig. Thanks for the pics (I know they were for EVERYONE) Now we can plan his final home a little better!

:)

[axwielding1]

See? I mentioned that they're hard to tell apart... And, half these "pet stores" really don't have their **** straight....
I mentioned before, in another post, when I decided to purchase a Blood, I had a guy mention he new a breeder that had "chocolate bloods"...
I assume he ment borneo, but figured if he was calling them "chocolate" he wasn't the dealer for me.....
The "pet store" I went with quickly identified her as a Sumatran Borgersmai, and it was pretty evident( scales)....
Salesmen and herps are very different.....
I'd check on the sexing as well. A female sumatran borgersmai can be pretty big, much bigger than a male borneo for sure...
They're not easily sexed, at least not like a Ball python or such....
ax.

[sapphire_moon]

Oh I know it, I think when we go get the fecal done, we will take him and have him probed, but he was also probed at the store. Are there any physical differences I can check?

[axwielding1]

I have an older ball python who is definitely a male. Pretty evident. He "shows" pretty often, and looking at the tail straight from underneath, there is quite a "bulge". As for the bloods, I don't thinbk it's quite as obviousl, and even probing isn't always exact (so I've heard).
Popping is probably the most accurate, unless you have a vet that's probed bloods before and is experienced with sexing this species...
I'm glad to hear you have a sumatran borgersmai! Really great to handle once they've settled down. They have quite a wide variety of coloration, mine is orange/yellow. Pretty common in this family. I'd like to get a male maylasian or banka in the future, to breed. I hope to get a really red one, with an attitude to match.
Good luck, and post pic's when you can....
ax.

[Smulkin]

Heh, axe I have the 'beaut of you dreams then.

http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/brammer/reptiles/kalihand.jpg

One really ODD thing I have noticed, and I am sure it may be a fluke, is that she NEVER strikes when you are looking at her. She ALWAYS waits until you have your head turned. Not a basis for any assumptions of course, and likely unrelated to blood ambush behavior (given that I am a wee bit too large to eat) - but daymn if she isn't 100% consistent since coming out of her initial stupor from chill. At one point (not during the session which resulted in that pic) I turned my head to get the betadine swab and she launched at me and clear out onto the floor. I felt crushingly bad about that and at once amazed at the foot or so she had to clear to accomplish that. Muscular little hunny.

[sapphire_moon]

sure thing, just gotta get the time/money to get it devloped. Beautiful little girl you got there.

I've handled him a bit, so far he's all huffy puffy, no hiss, no strike. But he will puff up as big as possible, and I learned kinda the hard way that he DOES NOT like to be restrained (trying to look for the scales under his eyes) and he pulled back so hard I was afraid he would hurt himself. So I kind of have to let him do his thing and hope he held still (I ended up putting him back in the deli cup he came in, and he held perfectly still for me).

a few more days and it's feeding time again! :)