Amazon set-up pic

[dave68]

This is my set-up for my female Amazon, it's even complete with a pond and water fall although you can't see it in the pic. Just thought I'd share it.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3839HEMIShade_010-med.jpg

[Siretsap]

very nice but not practical for a snake.

[dave68]

Why do you say that? She's been in it for years now and bred very successfully many times.

[Siretsap]

I meant not practical in the sense you have to take everything out to disinfect it every week or 2. I wouln't have too many enclosures like this. The only species I know of that you can have a nice natural display without constantly be cleaning it is of dandrobats and frogs.

But still a very nice setup.

[dave68]

hmmmmm....

[asphyxia]

Looks Great to me!

Cheers
Brian

[Lrptls]

i love it, i bet the snake loves it too

[anders_240sx]

I love it ... I prefer nice setups rather than simple plastic boxes and paper towel ..or newspaper ..."pratical"? No... but worth the time and energy?..oh yeah

[geckoguy157]

ya i agree i like haveing natural set ups more to nice cage

[dave68]

thanks for all the kind words you guys are great

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

He could also spray down the enclosure with a Probiotic waste degrader to help with the waste and nitrogene cycle. Of course you'll need to clean the large waste matter but, no need for bi weekly run down.

[anacondaman]

looks freaking amazing.......but as for me..ima newspaper, hidebox kinda guy when it comes to my snakes......lol...nice tank though...really nice

[Double J]

Originally posted by Siretsap
I meant not practical in the sense you have to take everything out to disinfect it every week or 2.

Personally.. I think that is a little overboard. Completely sterilize? I disagree to a point.

The picture did not work on my pc... but does anyone rememebr the Vivarium on display at the last Mississauga show at the UnderStory Enterprises table with the amazon in it?

I think keeping animals in naturalistic vivaria s the future of the hobby. Yes.. rubbermaids work well for maintining large collectons...... They meet the needs of the snakes etc etc.. but in my opnion, keeping these animals in such sterile enclosures does not appeal to me. I think that in 15 years... the snake hobby will be much different than it is now. I think there will be a greater emphasis naturalistic vivaria. People will not only want a snake in their living room.... but a snake living in a small piece of what resembles its natural habitiat.. To me, this is far more appealing than a rubbermiad with some care fresh bedding and a water dish.

The hobby is changing. We have only scrathed the surface of the husbandry of these animals. What we know now is adequate. But.... the hobby will change and grow. The more we learn, the more we can apply to it and improve on it. Snakes in rubermaids is ths beginning. IT has allowed hobbyists to get the ins and outs of keepng these animals alive. But.. I think that people need oto take the next step forward, and improve on how things are done, and find new ways. Nonetheless, old habits die hard.... and old ideas die harder. IOften ideas become so widely practiced and accepted that people are not willing to realizxe that there are other ways that work as well that are contrary to what is considered conventional. when people are wilng to look outside the box, the hobby will improve in ways that are unimaginable.

This post was not meant to attack anyone... or to tell anyone that their way is wrong or incorrect. It is simplyt mean't to provoke some thought, and give some insight from outsde the box.

Thanks for listening

[Kyle Barker]

^^my thoughts exactly, well said.

[JRQ]

i thoguht i would never hear a snake person say that. Double J I have been waiting for a longtime for this. frog people have done this for a longtime now and i must say its so awesome to see some natural instincts kick in in a somewaht natural envireonment, especially when feeding time come around. I say make the reptile work for their food, makes them more energetic.

[YummyCdnMale]

I have over 1100 snakes... I have 13 at home... and everyone of them at home are set up just as nice as yours Dave. It's worth the time and effort to set them up as you have because the full day to clean wash etc it takes me is well worth it. Besides, if i had the rubbermaid and paper towels my wife would fuhhhhreak out and say it's not a zoo! My snakes are scatered throughout the house in those exact setups, even in my sons room he has a corn and my sons 2. I would think how i keep the snakes at the store in racks of rubbermaids etc would seem more like a prison then an enclosure would'nt you say? Job well done Dave! Oh and one more thing i would like to point out !!! Green carpets and newspaper is a no no in my eyes green carpets cause bad staining on the belly and newspaper well that stains to but it also causes CANCER the binder in the dye is very toxic after all would you use paper towels to take the oil of your french frys or newspaper????? I know i would'nt deoil french frys with news paper then feed them to my child!


Again nice enclosure there Dave!
Rob.

[Rob McRobbie]

The hobby is changing. We have only scrathed the surface of the husbandry of these animals. What we know now is adequate.

I disagree.. I think the hobby has come a long way and we have done way more than scratch the surface.. I too think natural vivaria is very nice on the eyes if it is well kept, but to say that a more sterile-type form of husbandry is in some way inferior to naturalistic is not correct.. It is a different way to house these animals..

Forgive me if you did not imply that the sterile way is inferior.. But when you say that we have a long way to go, does that mean that we have a lot more improvements to make? More and more species are being bred in captivity and not entirely in more naturalistic vivaria..

I guess what I'm saying is I do not think that natural vivaria equates to a higher level of herpetocultre.. and that the we have a long way to go because so many keepers take the sterile approach.


Rob

[Ixidor]

Rob personally I'd tend to agree with Double J, look what we've done with fish we used to put them in little bowls and throw in some bread now we have brilliant coral displays and tropical and saltwater fish tanks, I think the same thing could happen with herpteculture

[nicola_boulton]

I agree with Ixidor, well said, short and sweet! And DoubleJ.
I think in a 5-10 years(if the hobbie is still around) you will be able to actually buy set-up tanks that look great!
Because that is what apeals to us more and i think if is better for the herp in general, i mean surly there performance is better because they are more active(exploring etc). And a better performance means better for us right? easier feeding,care etc.
Mabey......... well this is only what i think!

[Kimo]

I for one agree with this form of set-up, i recently aquired an Emerald tree boa, shes currently housed in a 100g tank, with a pond, and water fall, with tons of perches, and land to slither around on...watching her at night time when she wakes up, is so entertaining, she explores for a couple of hours, before finding a nice perch...in regards to the sterile enviroments ie. tupperware containers... with papertowel or whatever, im sure are easier to maintain, clean, and whatnot, and just because your snake breeds, and feeds for you, does not make it a happy animal, we stick people in lil 10'x10' enclosures to, it's called Jail, and they still feed and im sure should you give them a mate they'll breed for you to! but these are two of the most primal of insticts! it's all animals live for! is to feed and breed! but what do you think you would enjoy more...i'm sure the animals would enjoy the same no?

Kimo

[nicola_boulton]

I totally agree with Kimo. It is jail........

[Rob McRobbie]

Kimo,

In regards to your post.. I definitely agree that the aminals gravitate to more natural surroundings, as it's ingrained in them.

If one is able to keep such a setup as sanitary as the habitats that they came from, then I have no problem with that. What I do have issues with is the exact scenario you mentioned. An emerald in their natural environment will almost always defecate and chances being that it will land way way below where they are perching at the time. They are not living in a 100 gallon terrarium whereby they are unable to leave their excrement behind.

In an elaborate setup as you have for your emerald, I have concerns with the maintinance that must be involved in keeping that pond and waterfall free from bacteria and anything else that might pollute the water that the snake will drink.

You see, in nature, this isn't an issue. In captivity, in hygenic conditions, this is not an issue either. BUT, to re-create an environment for a snake that it has in nature and call that cutting edge husbandry, when you can almost never guarantee the animal is going to drink clean water (Kimo's example) is incorrect.

All praises go to the guys/gals out there working with the dart frogs and different species of chameleons/geckos.. and re-creating their different environments.. All I am saying is as long as these animals are kept clean/healthy, then all is good.


Rob

[Double J]

Originally posted by Rob McRobbie
Kimo,

....... I have concerns with the maintinance that must be involved in keeping that pond and waterfall free from bacteria and anything else that might pollute the water that the snake will drink. ...........



Why does everyone have such a deep level of germophobia? My dart frog tanks are LOADED with bacteria in the soil..... NOT ALL BACTERIA ARE BAD!!!!!!!! And if the water has a brownish tint to it, there is often nothing to worry about because tannins from the soil can make the water look tea-like, and can be a great thing. I think that with regular water changes in the waterfall would be fine. After all, aquatic amphibians in tanks are surely swimming around in their excrement to some degree..... but in a healthy tank.. the bacteria help break things down and keep the vivarium healthy when managed properly. Water changes are important, as is good filtration. Amphibians are far more sensitive to poor water qualty than reptiles.. after all, amphibians skin is essentially like a sponge. Of course, with a snake, you will surely have to spot clean in a naturalisitc setting... but as long as that is kept on top of, it should not be a problem, and the bacteria should assist in breakng down the remainder of the waste if the vivarium is properly maintaned. The idea behind a vivarium is to have these interactons between the bacteria and plants etc etc. Essentially, you make *the tank* work WITH you. Remember, in a sterilew environment, "bad" bacteria are the only ones kicking around, and have nothing to compete with. But... in a healthy vivarium complete with benign bacteria, the "baddies" are often out competed by the healthy culture in the soil and the water as long as the vivarium is maintained.
I think my tangent is through.. but I feel I ned to get the point across that WE NEED bacteria.... as without it life would not be possible on this planet. Let's not let "a few bad apples" ruin the reputation of all bacteria.

Double J

[dave68]

Thank you very much Double J, my thoughts exactly, just way better said.

And to bring it all back to the original post just thought I could add an upadate. My amazon FINALLY had her babies in the exact set-up this post originated from. Not a large litter what so ever, shes had six in a previous year and this time there was 4 extremely large babies and 6 slugs. I could not get over the size of the babies, blew my mind. Anyways gonna post some pics in a little bit just gotta get them on my computer, being so late it could take a while.

[Kimo]

as to the sanitary condition of my tank, yes i'll agree it is somewhat difficult to maintain my tank for my snake...however, if i wasn't prepaired to provide the proper husbandry, and maintain it, i have no right to own a snake, as for the water, you'd be suprised what a full filtration system can do with the water...as such, i have my filtration system hooked up to a pump, wich then feeds the cleansed water down rock steps, back into the tank, these filters get changed on a monthly basis (although supposed to last up to 2 months), all of the Ph lvls are where they should be and the whol nine yards the cost for maintaining my set up is somewhat high in comparison to say the rubbermaid approach, but after a thorough cleaning, and im standing back looking at my tank, im overwhelmed with profound happiness, and filled somewhat with jealousy(her house looks nicer than mine) that i am able to offer somthing more to my animals, than food, and warmth

Kimo/Josh

[Jeff_Favelle]

USEABLE space. The waterfall, plants, soil, clouds, UV light, rocks, decor, plastic insects, wind-up parrot, etc etc etc are for YOUR benefit. And that's great. For sure. But all of those things are NOT the ecological micro-niche of animal in question. Yes some of those inanimate things occur where they live, but in the micro-niche/habitat of the snake, they just don't matter. Surrounding habitat is the consequence of the prevailing climate. The snake doesn't care if its sitting on dowling or PVC or true living mangrove branches.

Think like a snake, not like a person looking in at a cool-looking planted terrarium. I agree, naturalistic cages are dope. Its why we all go into the hobby in the first place. But to suggest that a simple set-up is like "jail"? That's the funniest/least informed/newbie comment I've ever heard. LOL! Snakes are not people and do not have the spacial, mental or physical requirements that we do. And to suggest it or make the conection, leads me to believe that this person is basically on their first snake. LOL!

Its all about the snakes..........

[dave68]

NICE!!!

[dave68]

Well this was meant to be a positive post, so here it goes.
This is mom who lives in the ever debated set-up...

http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3839amazonianagain_028-med.jpg

And once again.....Her "house"
http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3839amazonianagain_027-med.jpg

So, thanks for all the replies everyone, I'm gonna try and figure out how to make pics smaller so I can post some baby pics.

One last thing to point out, is, everyone does what they do because it works for them, To each their own! Enjoy!

Allison

[Jeff_Favelle]

Sweeeeeeeeet! I gotta make some of those for my Jungles and GTP's man!! Woo-hoo!

Hey Dave, know what naturalistic cages get my juices flowin' right after tropical ones? Kick-a$$ desert set-ups!!! I wanna get a "run" of like 20 feet by 4 feet and get a COLONY of Collared Lizards or desert agamas. I think that'd be the coolest! I could cancel cable (and maybe internet!!) and just watch them all day!! LOL!

:D

Great cage. We'll never get tired of seeing those pics!

[dave68]

Go for it man, love desert setups as well, make sure to send pics if you do it. When we had leopard geckos, we set them up naturalistically in a long desert terrarium, couldn't stop em' from breeding. Raised and sold hundreds of beautiful babies, The bugs became overwhelming and had to get out of it, as to focus time and attention elsewhere. Anyways, have fun if you do set it up. Let me know if you get into Collard lizards, might be interesting.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Its been my dream since I first got into reptiles man! Diurnal lizards ROCK!!! If all goes well, I'll get to build TWO greenhouses and one will just be one big tropical rainforest with frogs and geckos and a couple GTP's and two easy chairs right in the middle! Just sit back and watch "nature". That's my dream. No lie!


:D

Keep at 'er bro! You ROCK.

[Kimo]

I'm not even gonna dignify that post with a responce, however, in the intrest of keeping this thread positive "Thats A Freaking Awsome Set-Up!!" Lots of space to move around in at night, and lots o foilage to hide in during the day...that snake must feel very secure and happy! congrats

Josh/kimo

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

Kimo says : I'm not even gonna dignify that post with a responce, however, in the intrest of keeping this thread positive "Thats A Freaking Awsome Set-Up!!

To which post are you refering to?

[Kimo]

read over some of the previous posts...i think the one that resorts to labeling other members, "newbies" if i am correct?

But nontheless i am a newbie! YAY ME! i'm always eager to learn more, and every day i learn somthing new in this hobby...but then again...isn't that the point?

The "Newbie"
Kimo/Josh

;)

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Jeff, as much fun as it is debating with you, I must say I totally agree. And, nothing is better than a well planned out desert set-up.
Xain

[Jeff_Favelle]

No way Xain, you CAN'T agree! LOL! Where's the fun in that?

What would you put in the desert set up by the by? I was thinking that Leopard Lizards would be kinda dope as well.

[Double J]

I am actually setting one up in the next few weeks. It's inhabitants will be none other than viper geckos.
I have been mulling over lighting for a while, and I am thinking about either using halogen, or xenon puck lamps in conjunction with a 6500 k fluorescent. I think the puck lighting will gve the necessary intensity as welkl as heat.. but I am thinking I will opt for the xenons as oppesed to the halogen pucks, as the xenons are said to put out more lumens and a little less heat. It will likely be a 20 high tank, so I thnk the xenons will work better as they would seem to be less likely to OVERHEAT the tank. I know these gexlike to cook, but too much juice in a small tank may spell disaster. I have a few months to plan, as I will be paper-toweling the gex as they will of course be juvies.
Belgian nurseries which is about 15 minutes away has a ridiculously huge selection of desert plants, so I wil have plenty to choose from.
I'll keep you posted with progress.
I'll shut up now.

Double J

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

lol, just doesn't seem right-does it?
Personally, I'm kinda becoming fond of Uromastyx so Im in the making of a 4x2 enclosure for the one I have. My Rattlesnake's enclosure looks nice as well. If I could choose anything, you're ideal 20x4 enclosure sounds like the deal. I would prolly' do the collard lizard and a few chucks. Maybe several species of Horneds? What I wouldnt do for Thorny devils.. If only I could make up my mind..

[Jeff_Favelle]

Chuckwallas! Of course! That would be WAY cool.

Double J, post pics! Let's get on this desert thing. Imagine how low maintenance it could be?!! And HOURS of fun to watch ('cept Xain's rattlesnake that just sits there, LOL!!).

:D

[JonD]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Its been my dream since I first got into reptiles man! Diurnal lizards ROCK!!! If all goes well, I'll get to build TWO greenhouses and one will just be one big tropical rainforest with frogs and geckos and a couple GTP's and two easy chairs right in the middle! Just sit back and watch "nature". That's my dream. No lie!


:D

Keep at 'er bro! You ROCK.
What about the butterflies?;) that setup would be friggen amazing:)