Whats the difference between......

[sapphire_moon]

I've been reading up on blood pythons. And am getting very confused:confused: ! lol


What is the difference between short tailed pythons, borneo pythons, malasian blood pythons?

Are they the same KIND of snake, just from a different area?

If they are different then,

What is the max length that each will get (both male and female!)

what size cage is needed?

Are all their temps and humidity the same?


Also if you have any pics of a simple baby set up, I would like to see it. Or post a link.

If you have any good websites that have good caresheets (which I've read a ton! lol) or articles, it would be really helpful and appreciated.


Thanks in advance!

[Big_V]

I believed they are all classified as short tailed pythons but there are different localities. The borneo bloods or curtus breitensteini are smaller in size 4-6 feet being normal. They usually are darker in color and dont really exhibit the red coloring but a brown color. Malaysian bloods are the true red bloods (curtus brongersmai). These guys get alot bigger average of 4-7 feet and lots more color. There are also sumatran species but are most like the malaysian but a butterscotch drip type colour with hints of red. (mine anyways). All there care is similar.....88-90 hot spot for juvenilles 83-88 ambient. High 70's ambient night temp is good from my short experience and what Grant VG has told me. He knows tonnes about these guys. 4x2x1.5 cage is good in my opinion...thats what mine will be in....and above 60% humidity works. I keep mine closer to 85 to 90 and have had no problems at all. Read the caresheet on the site by Grant....its awesome and actually was the reason i got a blood in the first place.

http://www.proexotics.com/care_blood.html
This link just shows a basic setup for a blood. Not the best idea IMO because humidity would be able to escape easily. But its good because they need a good tight space to live in while young. They are very shy. Some people use rubbermaids but I keep all my snakes in tanks cuz thats what ive always done.

http://www.proexotics.com/blood_article.html
Here is the article from Reptiles Magazine too. That may help alot.
Cheers, Ryan

[sapphire_moon]

thanks a ton. A rubbermaid would probably be better while they are young then, Until they need a custom enclosure, right?

And I have read a few places about indonesian blood pythons? know anything about those? lol

[emroul]

Here is a picture of my Sumatran blood pythons enclosure. She's about 22" long right now, and this is a 32-quart rubbermaid in a rack. It works perfectly.

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/emroul/Picture-006.jpg

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/emroul/Picture-005.jpg

And here is the occupant:

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/emroul/Picture-009.jpg

I had a plastic hide in there, which she did not use once, so I took it out. She lives comfortably underneath all that cypress mulch all day long.

Jennifer

[Big_V]

Yeah id say a rubbermaid is best when they are young....even though i myself used a small tank, that i modified a lid for so yeah. Get one about emroul's size and grow the little guy up and then go right to the permanent enclosure. They grow slow so its gonna take awhile but you should be good. My blood is now in a bigger enclosure that is 24x18 right now till he/she reaches a bit longer. And once I can find someone to build me an enclosure.

I think when they say Indonesian blood pythons I think they are refering to the whole group of python curtis.
Cheers, Ryan

[Invictus]

I keep all of mine (both Borneo and Sumatran Blood) on sphagnum moss, because I've found that the recommended 60% for humidity just doesn't cut it - they end up soaking all the time, and their scales get quite dry. Moist moss not only provides them with their hide (they burrow all the time just like in Jennifer's pic above), but it keeps their scales nice and moist.

For a blood over 5 feet, I don't think a 4x2 flor space will cut it either. 6x2 minimum, since these guys are way too heavy bodied to curl up the way a boa or slender python would. When they are forced to "fold up", they will use 2 feet just in the curvature of their back. If any of my P.curtus get over 6 feet, they will get a 6x3 enclosure.

[axwielding1]

Just to expand on the subject:
The smallest of the STP's is the sumatran (curtus curtus aka black)
3-4 feet.
The next larger is the Borneo ( curtus bretensteini) 4-6 feet.
The largest is the Maylasian and Sumatran red (Blood) python,
(curtus borgersmai) 5-7 feet.
There are other types, but these are the most common.
They are all very large bodied, and their care is the same. Captive bred is the only way to go unless you are a experienced breeder with capabilities of handling large, infested, sick and pissed off snakes. Of the Bloods (red), the Maylasian seems to have the reddest coloration, although there are some beautiful red sumatran bloods. Typically, the sumatran blood is an orange, tan color, and, from what I understand, seem to get slightly larger than the Maylasian.The borneo and black are actually referred to as STP's. The Borneo being a rich brown, and the Black is, well, black. The easiest way to tell the difference between the Bloods and the STP's is the labial (lip) scales. On a blood (borgersmai) the large lip scales run right up to the bottom of the eye. On the STP's, there is a row of small scales between the labial scales and the eye. When they are young, they all have heavy patterns, and bright colors, and it is sometimes not very easy to differenciate without the labial scales.
Regardless, they are all beautiful, and fantastic to own/work with.
ax.

[sapphire_moon]

wow, do you got any pics of that axweilding?

You said they grow slow? What do you mean by that? How slow do they grow.

Say a blood that is feed once a week, something 1.5-2 times the biggest part of it's girth it doesn't refuse a meal.

How much would it grow in a year?


Invictus: I understand on the cage width thing. Especially if it is a larger one.

Does anyone have any pics of a full grown blood with something for size reference? a soda can, a dollar bill, or a ball or something?

[Big_V]

Just check some galleries. Grant VG has some picks in his gallery of some decent sized bloods. My blood eats once a week, an appropriate sized rat and has only grown like 4 inches in like 5 months...but has put on lots of weight. I think the length comes after the massive girth. LOL. And my 4x2 comment was obviously the minimum for a small blood, yeah bloods definately need lots of room.

[sapphire_moon]

Another question, can two of them be crossed? Like a borneo/sumatra blood python?

[emroul]

I'm pretty sure it can and has been done, and is frowned upon. Not too sure though; to each his own I guess.

[sapphire_moon]

why is it frowned upon. I thought they were the same species just from different places?

[Invictus]

It can be done with any of the P.curtus species. Borneo / Blood crosses are quite common, and even high profile breeders such as Henry Piorun (a1pythons.com) breed them.

Sapphire, to answer the girth question, well.... a 2L pop bottle is more like it. I've seen some that are around basketball sized in the middle. These creatures get HUGE.

[sapphire_moon]

How long does it take for them to aquire a good size?

I have no problem with the size, besides maybe hurting my back picking one up! of course there would always be someone with me when they get to such a size.

[Grant vg]

Just because "high profile" breeders like Henry , breed them willingly or have bred them accidentally, doesn't make it right at all....perhaps a bit lazy and greedy, but not right.

Remember, they have all been given there own species recognition, and borneo and sumatra dont even come into contact with eachother... they are two seperate islands...

i wouldn't breed an argentine boa with a colombian, just because they have the same body shape....and live close by, so why with short-tails???

also, sapphire, bloods are big girthy animals, but they still should be fed appropriate sized prey ,

"Say a blood that is feed once a week, something 1.5-2 times the biggest part of it's girth it doesn't refuse a meal."

maybe you meant something else, but even a blood will regurge something twice the size of its thickest girth.....

[sapphire_moon]

really? None of my other snakes have a problem with this.

I was refering to a baby as well. do you feed babies on a weekly basis or is it every 2 wks?

[Big_V]

Feed babies and juvenilles on a weekly basis Id say. If you feed to often you will run into problems because of their slow metabolism. Though bloods can take something a little bigger than most snakes its frowned upon only because you dont want something like a regurge to happen.

[sapphire_moon]

so, as babies/juvies feed 1 wk(every 7 days, then feed on the 8th). How old/big are they to be considered adult then?

Are bloods prone to regurges?

[Big_V]

Yeah every 7th day works. Ive heard if you feed them too much you run into big problems. They are adult when over 3 feet id say. By no means are the finished growing most of the time but id consider that an adult. All snakes are prone to regurges if fed the wrong size prey. And you have to make sure the temps are perfect in their enclosures also to get rid of a regurge chance. But same with any snake.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

BTW: Lets say your blood is about 8 inches wide at it's thickest part, you would have to feed it a goat or something! A would be quite unlikely to get that wide. With bloods, the size of prey differs depending on the animal, age, size. You cant feed a 7ft blood a goat/pig or something similar even though it may be 1.5-2 times the girth of the snake.

C.

[Big_V]

Man if ppl started feeding bloods goats and pigs they would be off their rocker.

[axwielding1]

Just a note on growth..
My blood was 16" in september '03, and is now 36"... I'd say that's alot of growth in 8 months. Most of that growth occuring since february, when she went to rats..
Keeping species "clean" is important when breeding, I think....
BTW she's eating medium rats now. I've heard on this forum of people feeding adults (6-7 ft.) rabbits..
Nice animals...
ax.

[Invictus]

Goats is ridiculous. That's for Afrocks and Retics. :)

A full grown blood can, however, pound down a 3 lb rabbit like nobody's business.

I feed mine every 2 weeks... they don't seem to want to eat any more frequently than that, but then again, I do give them very big meals. My baby borneos are on jumbo mice right now, and my yearling blood is on medium rats.

[sapphire_moon]

Never thought about that, lol.

Thanks for all the info..


I have another question though.

Can't remember who, but on the 1st page someone said something about lip scales.
Can this be explained further, or can someone point me to a website where it is explained further?

[Big_V]

Okay this came up before and I remember whats going on. I also think their is a previous thread about it as well. There are large scales along the lip of bloods. If it is a borneo it will have a very small row of scales between these lip scales and the eye itself. If the lip scales continue up against the eye it is not a borneo but another type. Check some ppl's galleries for bloods. If there is a close head shot you can see it easily.

[axwielding1]

Labial (lip) scales are the large square scales on the upper "lip".
On a Borgersmai (RED) these scales reach the bottom of the eyes with no separation.
On the other short tailed pythons, ther is a row of subcaudal (small) scales separating the labial scales from the eye...
Search blood pythons, then labial scales.
I know there's a site with illustrations, I just don't remember what it was.
ax.

[axwielding1]

A good thread to check out is "large but worth the wait". Shows a close up of a sumatran borgersmai, you'll see a row of small scales that run along the stripe from nose to eye, but ending prior to reaching the eye. On a borneo or black STP, these would continue between the large lip scales and the eye.
Another thread called"meet the family" or something, shows a full grown 6-7ft maylasian borgersmai, as well as a sumatran borgersmai (orange), a Borneo (brown) and a Black (dark pattern) . The black or curtus curtus, is young and will fade to almost pure black as it matures. In the picture you'll see how much it looks like the borneo....
ax.

[sapphire_moon]

I couldn't find either thread :( but I think I know what your talking about.

[sapphire_moon]

Thanks, everyone has been SOOO helpfull!