Lighting

[GP212]

Believe it or not I am still not sure about lighting.
This is what I am thinkin;
I am planning on not using a flourescent UVB bulbs but just a nomal 3 or 4 foot for lighting. For UVB I was looking at the Powersun MVB basking lamps for each end of the tank. The Tank is 6 feet long.
Please give me your opinions.
I can't believe the prices on these bulbs!

Thanks!!!!
Glenn

[Bartman]

Ive never heard of the one for uvb but as long as it gives it out and you have a heat lamp and that..unless its two in one..then thats really all you need...and the one for lighting will just make it brighter...dont see a problem..

[Pia]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Powersun bulbs. I have seen heat bulbs that say that they provide UVB, but the amount is so small that it wouldn't be of any benefit. Regular "household" fluourescent bulbs are not suitable for sun worshiping lizards such as bearded dragons because although they provide light, again, they don't provide sufficient amounts of UVB. The ones you see in hardware stores labeled "for use with fish and reptiles" are also unsuitable for the same reason. The only fluorescent bulbs I would use are the ones available only at pet stores or on line pet suppliers. Look for ones that have 8% UVB. They are more expensive but are necessary to keep your pet healthy. Without proper UVB lighting, it won't be able to manufacture vitamin D3 which is needed to absorb calcium. Calcium deficiency leads to health problems like shakes and tremors and soft, easily broken bones. A four ft. bulb is long enough, just make sure it is positioned over/beside the basking area and that the basking area is within 12 inches of the light. Any farther down and the UVB rays become much weaker and therefore, less effective. Also, make sure one end of the tank is cooler than the other so the beardie can cool down as needed. All this stuff can be a little overwhelming at first, especially when you run into different opinions, but don't be daunted, you're doing a great job with your research! Also, I think you mentioned earlier that you have ordered The Bearded Dragon Manual, it's a great book and I think you'll find it very helpful. :-)

[GP212]

So, should I go with the flourescent to get my UVB rays? In one of the other forums Linds said that flourescent are a waste of time. Well, she didn't exactly say that, but she said that these Powersun baskin lamps are the way to go. The Flouescent would probably be cheaper.
How long do the normal basking bulbs last?

[tHeGiNo]

The powersun UV bulbs are great. I think Linds might have meant regular fluorescents are a waste of time, possibly. However, if your using the powersun, you will definitely want to put some normal fluorescents to better light the cage. This basking lamp in particular is recommended to be replaced after 10,000 hours, or up to two years. KEep in mind this bulb can get quite hot, and at even 15 inches above a basking spot, it makes temperatures around 110 F. It is not to be used in small enclosures.

I forgot to mention - although the fluorescent UVB/UVA bulbs may be cheaper, they do not produce a great deal of UVB rays, and they have to be replaced every six months maximum. I mount all my UVB bulbs inside the cage, so that the light is not filtered by screen, glass, or whatever the case may be.

[Leviathan]

If you want something that will last a long time I would go with a flourescent strip and a ceramic bulb. For a 100 gallon tank you are also going to need a large piece of wood for your beardie to climb. Something that will put him no less than 1 foot below the flourescent light. Ceramics are expensive, but I believe the 150 watts last for up to 5 years!!! Where as your Zoo-med bulbs and that can sometimes blow out in weeks to months. I NEVER use bulbs anymore! For heat anyways. A Flourescent tube will give off light for a couple years but unfortunatley has to be changed once a year because the UVB only lasts that long.
This is how i had my beardie set up...

One end of the tank I had a large piece of would that was about 8 inches from the screen top. Above that I had a 3 foot flourescent fixture (fixture cost I think $20 from Rona) In that I used a Exo-Terra 8.0 bulb (8.0 means it gives off 8% UVB, a 5.0 would give off 5% and so on... anyone correct me if I'm wrong)(I think those cost about $20 as well). Then I use a ceramic clamp lamp fixture (another $20) with a 150 watt ceramic bulb inside (about $56). My tank was only a 50 gallon so you might need another ceramic on the other side. Other than that you can turn them off at night if it stays around 75 degrees Farenheit in the room he/she is in.

That's all i got
Alecia

[tHeGiNo]

A Flourescent tube will give off light for a couple years but unfortunatley has to be changed once a year because the UVB only lasts that long.

Correction - UVB/UVA bulbs should be replaced every 6 months, not every year. Also, there is a BIG difference between the quality of your regular Exoterra bulb to this Powersun.

In that I used a Exo-Terra 8.0 bulb (8.0 means it gives off 8% UVB, a 5.0 would give off 5% and so on... anyone correct me if I'm wrong)(

I am not quite sure if thats what the numbers mean, but I know that it is often measured by uW/cm2. Then you have to keep in mind what is filtered out with these fluorescents. Glass filters out 95 percent of all UVB rays, whereas aluminum screen filters out approximately 30 percent. The lizard should be able to bask no more then 10 inches from the UVB source.

Ceramic bulbs are great, but I do not like them as they do not produce light.

[GP212]

The web sit for the Powersun UVB heat lamps is
www.zoomed.com
I meant to say that before. I got the site off the package when I was lookin at the pet store.

[doenoe]

I got a little question about the powersun bulb. Do they have to hang straight down or can you hang them in an angle? I heard somewhere that you have to hang them straight down, but im not so sure what kind of lamp they were talking about anymore.
Thanks in advance
Greetz Daan

[sevenofthorns]

They should hang straight down and not on an angle.

ZooMed also guarantees their bulbs for one year, so if it goes dead in that time you just ship it back to them and they send you a replacement for free.

Probably the best all in one bulb out there. High UV output and great amounts of heat, all with only one bulb.

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Correction - UVB/UVA bulbs should be replaced every 6 months, not every year. Also, there is a BIG difference between the quality of your regular Exoterra bulb to this Powersun.


Actually the UVB flouresents are supposed to be replaced every 6 month to a 1 year but there are exceptions to every rule. IF you have a UVB tester you can test if the UVB rays are still at an accepable level. I don't have a tester but my vet does so i take my UVB bulbs into him to get tested, I've had 1 bulb loose UVB in 3 months and i have one that lasted over 1 1/2 years and still going. I forgot the name of the site you can purchase the testers it's "solar" something, but they run about 160 USD.

Jamie

[drewlowe]

Just remembered the name of the site you can purchase UVB meters from.

www.solarmeter.com My vet has the one that's 159.00, I keep saying i plan on getting one and i really do, it's just other little toys like this i want, like a pinkie pump and other things, so i keep pushing it off. Guess it's a good thing my vet has one.

Jamie

[Dani33]

Here's a link that shows uva and uvb output. The powersun mercury vapour bulbs are definately the best. I hear that the 100 watt gives out heat like a 60 watt bulb. I am awaiting my first but can let you know about heat output. The flourescent uv bulbs are crap by comparison.
http://russiantortoise.org/uvb.htm

Edit: I just spoke to a customer service rep at zoomed. The powersun bulbs have to be mounted vertically in a fixed position. If you move them ie: on and off of a screen top, they'll eventually break.

[GP212]

Thats great!! Thanks Dani33!!!

[GP212]

So after seeing the different uv outputs, how much does a BD need?? If "everyone" is using the flourescent tubes then not much from what I see.I still haven't bought anything so I want to get the right ones. Plus I probably will need twoi so $$$$.
Can they get TOO much uvb?
Whats the uva for? Do they need it?

Thanks!!

[Dani33]

Yup they need it. In the wild, they are sunworshipers. If you look at that table, it also shows the uv out put of the sun in different places. It's necessary for vitamin D3 which in turn aids in the absorbtion of calcium. They can't get too much uv. You can give them too much D3 from vitamin supplements though. Most also give calcium with D3 for animals living indoors. It's best to give them supplements in moderation.

It's really your choice. Personally, I'm gonna use powersun bulbs. They'll also have time outside in the summer. I'll supplement with D3 during the cold season and without during the summer. If you think about thinking about the initail expense, if you replace the flourescent every 6 months it's $45.00 a pop right. The power sun bulb can last for 2 years with a 1 year warranty for a $100. Best of all, it gives out the most uv.

Just my 2 cents.

[doenoe]

Ok, thats it..........im gonna go for the powersuns too :D
No changing my mind anymore.............the powersuns is the way to go for me.......
Thanks for puttin this thread up btw, i was questioning these same things :)
Greetz Daan

[Dani33]

I also wanted to add that they should have a place to get out of the heat if they wish. I let my critters choose. On one side of their tank is cool with a hide and the basking spot on the other side. This way, if they don't feel like basking, they have an option.

Edit: Rob at Canadian Feeders has good prices and is a super nice guy. Maybe try him :) http://www.canadianfeeders.com/

[Big Mike]

Glenn,

Like Dani33 does/said, you can give them some outside time when it's warm. They can absorb lots of UVB on a nice sunny day...but don't skip the artificial UVB. Also, don't put them outside in an enclosed tank or tub that could overheat in the sun.

If you have any fireflies in your area...keep your beardies inside...they are very fatal if eaten.

It sounds like you have done all the research...it's time for some hands on experience...go get that beardie! :D

One thing that will be hard (especially with your kids) is to let the little guy settle in one he's home. Don't handle it for the first few days...if you can resist. Make sure he's not stressed & eating well.

[GP212]

About the amount of uvb that they need. I know that they need it but how much? I just wonder which bulb to buy. The powersuns look like they come in different strengths.Although the only one that I saw at the store was a 100 W.

[drewlowe]

I'm not sure how jumbled this is going to sound but i'm going to give it a shot. LOL

I'm still learning this part, heck i don't think you ever stop learning about herps no matter how many years you have them.

Lighting and supplemation (calcium, calcium w/ D3), go hand in hand. I'm not sure if there is a "required" amount set in stone. Depending on the type of UVB your using also depends on the right suplementation you use.

For example, If you use the UVB bulbs/flouresents you will have to use the supplement calcium with D3, but if you have them outdoors the need for supplementation goes down, but you should still use the calcium without D3.

I believe if you use the flouresent bulb (accordenly) and the right supplementation, you will not have any problems along with using correct diets.

Jamie

[Big Mike]

Also,

While it is important to strive to give our critters the best environment possible...don't over think it. Beardies are very hardy, that's one reason they are a very good starter reptile/lizard.

[GP212]

WOW! Nobody has ever accused me of "overthinkin" before!
lol
By the way, I have made WOW one of my favorite words lately. It is very versitile. Try it.

Seriously, thanks to all for all of your help. I think that you are correct in saying that I need to get the little guy now. I have not heard back from the pet store yet. They were going to call when they got some in. There is another one that is close to my work that i saw had some . They guy there said that they were about 12 weeks old and that they have had them for about 4 weeks. $110.
I still need to get all of the lighting set up, finnish the top,get the substrate(wheat bran I figure), and then get my temps set. I have a digital thermometer that I got from Radio Shack as someone had suggested.

Thanks again to all!!!!!!!!!!

Glenn

[drewlowe]

I think you pretty much covered all the "bases" on this one, I believe Big Mike is right, when you get your set up finished it's time for some "hands on" experience.

These guys do some funny stuff and mine are complete sweethearts, i don't think i could do with out at least one beardie in my house. I'm sure your wife will "warm" up to them. Just be careful you don't come addicted like the rest of us, or you'll be counting down the days when the kids move out so you can convert their room to hold more herps. LOL

I think the only thing we haven't hit on was diets, lol. If you do have questions about that just let us know, I'm sure many people will give good advice.

As some one else suggested before i think an investment into a cheap $5 timer may be a good one. That way the lights go on and off at the same time daily, no worries about forgeting to turn them on or off. They are VERY easy to set up and i consider my 4 to be my life savers, LOL.

[tHeGiNo]

Actually the UVB flouresents are supposed to be replaced every 6 month to a 1 year but there are exceptions to every rule.

Yep. However, not everyone, infact HARDELY anyone is equipped with a measuring device in regards to UVB rays. Therefore, would you not say it is right to suggest replacing every six months? If you wait a year, and it does burn out in six months, then your going six months without UVB. Or, as you mentioned, yours pooped out in three. Thats nine months without UVB.

I just spoke to a customer service rep at zoomed. The powersun bulbs have to be mounted vertically in a fixed position. If you move them ie: on and off of a screen top, they'll eventually break.

Wow, thanks for posting that information. I must admit, I did not know this. You would think this would be something they would let you know on the packaging...

[sevenofthorns]

It is in their new instructions, but the older bulbs didn't have it listed. Any new bulbs out of zoomed are supposed to have it.

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Yep. However, not everyone, infact HARDELY anyone is equipped with a measuring device in regards to UVB rays. Therefore, would you not say it is right to suggest replacing every six months? If you wait a year, and it does burn out in six months, then your going six months without UVB. Or, as you mentioned, yours pooped out in three. Thats nine months without UVB.

I would suggest to either buy one or find someone that has one, that would be the best thing to do. I understand 160 + shipping is alot to spend on a uvb meter (at least for most people, myself included), but there are advantages. You can test them at any time, you know if your UVB has ran out, or if it last longer. As i said i had one go in 3 months so that would have left them without uvb for 3 months until the next change anyway. Yes nine months are more but 3 months is still to long without UVB.

Jamie

[Icefire]

I was asking myself that question ,so I started that thread too.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43107

now I have discovered a group who DO test their bulb/tube for
UVB.
here is the difference between Reptisun 5.0 and PowerSun MV.

Tester Brand Watts Type Time Used Tested at UVB Reading.
Carole Powersun 100 watt flood 2 months 12" 10
Jen Powersun 100 watt Flood 2 months 12" 10
Darry PowerSun 100 watt flood 2 month 12" 16

Beautiful Powersun 160 watt flood brand new 12" 47
Darry PowerSun 160 watt flood 2 months 12" 36
Darry PowerSun 160 watt flood 2 months 12" 36



Darry Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" brand new 12" 21/ends and 32/middle
Veronica Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" 6.5 months 12" 15
Diane ReptiSun 5.0 40W/48" 8 months 12" 9
Jenn Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" 10 months 12" 13
Darry Iguanaht 5.0 40W/48" 1 year 12" 20/ends and 30/middle
Darry Reptisun 5.0 40W/48" 2+ years 12" 18/ends and 27/middle
In fact, PowerSun do output more, but take MORE watts.
so Reptisun give more UVB/Watts VS PowerSun.

Those PowerSun are in fact 160Watts Versus 40Watts Tube.
so if you would want to be fair, take 3 to 4 time the value of any
tube (48 inch, 40Watts) versus 160 Watts Power Sun.
I.E. Reptisun Brand new (32 in the middle) would be in fact 128 if
you use 4 Tube which totalise 160Watts.

We need to compare banana with banana not, banana VS apple.
so Watts VS Watts would be the best thing to look as a base.

Those are from that group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

I have modified 3 value that were 8" and 10" and not 12"
using rules of 3