Monitor Care Opinions wanted

[RontheReptile]

Hey Guys... (Also posted on CyberSal)

My little guy is a little over 2 ft. I have had him almost 3 months. I started by feeding him disco roaches and hissers, with a few meal worms now and then. I have now largely switched over to rodents(pinky rats.. 2 or 3 at a time) as well as fish and large tiger shrimp which I cut up into small enough peices. I also read that cat food supplamented with calcium d3 is acceptable. I have used this in a jam when I've run out of rodents. He is fed every second day.

Ambient Temp is about 90 deg.. Elevated basking spot at least 120 deg.. Humidity is between 50 - 80%. He seems to be thriving. Substrate is a dampened soil / peat moss mix. He has 2 hide spots which he uses alternately. He has a large water pool as well.

I have no intention of breeding him or getting another Monitor. I would love to get him tame as a lap dog. I would like some advice on my husbandry and any other advice on taming the little dragon would be greatly appreciated. Should I be doing something different?

Thanks in advance,,,,
Ron

[Lrptls]

...what is it?

[RontheReptile]

LOL !!!! Sorry... He is a Sumatran Water Monitor...

[Lrptls]

that might be useful for people who know about them, sorry but i only know stuff about savannahs

[RontheReptile]

I heard that savannahs share a lot of the same husbandry routines..

[Lrptls]

if so then i'd say you are caring for your monitor well. i wont suggest any thing or tell you to do something different because it could be different between the species. if youv been caring for him like this and hes healthy then i wouldn't worry about any thing.

to tame him, try handling often without restraining him too much and when you want to handle him dont take him out of his hides, wait till hes alreayd out.

[crocdoc]

Ron, skip the catfood.

As far as taming, I'm a big believer in no forced handling at all. With my monitors I wait until they get curious and start coming to check me out when I am cleaning or changing their water. They eventually do as they get a bit larger. i allow them to crawl onto my hand, then put them down. The next day, if they crawl up again, I may have them sit there a bit longer. As long as they don't have a negative experience (you grabbing them), they soon learn that you can be trusted. By the time they are adults, they are usually pretty cool with almost anything you do.

[RontheReptile]

Thanks Crocdoc (DK on CybSal) ..
I have stopped grabing him a while ago. he will eat in front of me on occasion as long as I don't make any quick movements. He has also taken tong fed food from me as well. I have heard from a few people and most agreed with your method of taming. I have also heard that "daily gentle handling" will tame him. I could only assume that to "handle him gently daily" means chasing him down and grabbing him and then letting him calm down in your hands as I had done in the past. I would like to hear from anyone who used the "daily gentle handling" method to see how it turned out in the long run.
Thanks again in advance....

[V.hb]

The husbandry with savannahs, and waters is pretty different, actually.

They require a higher humidity level. I kept my waters on leaf litter (deep leaf litter) oak leaves, or whatever I could find. They always burrowed deep in it. Basking spots, roughly the same. As crocdoc said, dont use catfood, its crap. Stick with whole meals, like rodents, fish, chicks.. and of course the roaches, crickets etc.. Make sure he's got ALOT of hides, i always found them incredibly skittish as juvis, even refuse food if they dont feel secure.

Ive never done the daily handling routine with any of my monitors. I just do the cage maintenance, and slowly but surely they stop taking off in my presence. Once they get to the point where they dont dash i slowly begin to touch them, and sometimes pick them up and move them from one part of the enclosure to another.. Eventually you'll be able to take him out, stress free.

[crocdoc]

I think the daily handling thing, if it involves chasing the animal down and grabbing it, will depend strongly on the individual monitor. Mine certainly remember their most recent dealings with me and will react accordingly the next time I open the enclosure door. In the case of one of my females, she is more hostile towards me if I picked her up (without her crawling on me first) the day before. If I continued to do that, she'd probably stay well away from me and quickly become a defensive, nasty animal. Because I tend to leave her alone, she usually comes to check me out when I open the enclosure door.

[V.hb]

crocdoc, i agree completely. it really depends on the monitor. Some are a challenge, they will run, huff & hiss at you but then take food willingly, in this case i dont believe they're stressed they just dont want to be bothered..

in other cases the monitor will run and slam into walls of the enclosure, and refuse to eat.. Thats a stressed animal.. Kinda goes to show how different each individual really can be doesnt it?

[RontheReptile]

Thanks guys... nothing better than advice from personal experience .... I will have to be patient and let him come to me...
thanks again

[mbayless]

Hi,
As DK and Vh.b have said, they learn by association re: tameness and handling, so avoid that whenever possible. Also scooping them up under their bodies gives them better support, less "Ive been grabbed by an eagle" sensation, which is one of their key predators when younger; as all monitors - ever notice they watch airplanes flying far overhead?!

good luck,
markb

[reptiguy123]

Have you ever watched a monitor react to a kite?

[mbayless]

Hahahaha - no I have not! I bet that is interesting! Never thought of that.....my 6'2" female albigularis would sit in upstairs window and watch birds level eye-to-eye with her in the window, and sometimes lunge at them - and would have got them if the window was not in the way....kites - thats funny....
markb

[crocdoc]

my lacies will freeze on the spot at the sight of a large, soaring bird or an airplane/jet in the distance. They'll keep their head up watching it, but will not move a muscle until it is out of sight.

Small birds, on the other hand, evoke entirely different responses. Many of the small bird species here are instinctively inclined to swoop on monitors whenever they see one, even well outside the nesting season. When a single bird spots one of my monitors near a window, it will take up a position near the window and let out a distress call until other birds arrive, then they will take it in turns to swoop. My monitors always show a distinctive, instinctive ducking motion, even if they are some distance from the window (I've seen wild lacies do exactly the same motion when swooped upon). Pretty cool to see. Some of our native birds are particularly aggressive and will not hesitate to take out an eye if they can, so it's a handy instinct for the monitor.

One of the funniest (albeit painful) things I saw/experienced with one of my monitors concerned two birds. I had one of my monitors outside to catch some sun and he had noticed a pelican soaring overhead. Pelicans have the same wing profile as a large soaring bird, like an eagle. The monitor had frozen on the spot, with his neck raised, and was staring at the pelican with one eye. Suddenly, out of the blue, a little Indian mynah landed right next to the monitor. Not native, but have the instinct to scream at and swoop on monitors anyway (there are monitors where they come from, too). It had done neither, just landed, but the surprise caught the monitor offguard (especially as it was so tense while staring at the pelican) and it freaked out. It ran full speed up me, to the top of my head. I would have laughed if it hadn't hurt so much.

[mbayless]

Hi Dk,

HAHAHAHAHA - that same scenario happened to Late Raymond Cowles with Varanus niloticus in south Africa in 1940's - it saw a bird and ran right up Dr. Cowles, clawing him as it went up his chest - fortunately for him it stopped there, not climbing over his face!

My bengal monitors used to get so excited when birds came to window to see what was inside the lizard room, they would jump at the windows, but one time a crow came cawing up the window, banged against it, but managed to perch while its dizzy spell wore off, cawing still, and my male bengal ran right up me to me chest until he realized he had climbing onto "that thing" that feeds me and smells like a mammal!! In utter surprise to both of us, I froze, but he jumped back into his open cage and under a log....later he got his courage back when he lunged at me with open mouth in unprovoked typical bengal monitor style....

funny but not fun,
markb

[Steeve B]

Doc did he run to you for safety? Or you just happened to be on his path?
Rgds

[mbayless]

Hi Steve!

How have you been? Long time no talk too - did you get my mail to you ok? All ok?

Best Regards Steve,
markb

[crocdoc]

Hi Steeve,

As much as I'd like to be anthropomorphic and say he ran to me for safety, in all likelihood I was the nearest vertical surface and a familiar one at that.

[Steeve B]

well at least we get them to run for us with food!! one of my female cycled mated and seems gravid? shes only about 40in TL, are you aware they can produce this small.

hello Mark no I havent got your mail yet, or maybe I did? I need to go to the post office. aim presently working on my moutain house no TV computer dont even know if we have a phone there?
will email you later cheers, tell john to get some darn leaches for cody.

[reptiguy123]

Was he fenced in outside or what? Do you let him run around the house without a leash?

[crocdoc]

he was outside catching some sun under my supervision, no lead, no fence (at least, none that would stop him). A very calm animal, normally, wouldn't dare put any of my others outside like that.

Steeve B, what sort of SVL are we talking? Female lace monitors can reproduce at a smaller size than you might think. 40cm SVL (~16 inches), if not smaller, so if your female is 100 inches total she should be well within range.

Good luck with that! Not sure if my female is typical, but it's very very subtle to tell when she's gravid (she can look bigger when she's just cycling), even when carrying quite a few eggs. First clutch was even harder to tell, but her behaviours gave the game away.

[Steeve B]

doc shes only 40 inches total, very far from 100 inches! This is why aim wondering if your aware of any breedings with such a small female? anyway I put her in a nesting cage, will see!

[crocdoc]

haha, sorry, I meant 100 cm total. I was doing conversions in my head when you said 40 inches and forgot to convert back in my post. I can't deal in imperial any more, been too many years. I'd love to see a 100 inch Varanus varius, though!

So, in answer to your question, if she's 40 inches (100cm) total and has a fairly average tail length (for the species), I'd guess her SVL to be around 16" (40cm), in which case I have not only heard of them breeding at that size but have seen it for myself. Make sure the substrate in the nesting cage is around 30C (or at least has a gradient on either side of that temperature). Mine has dug holes all around the enclosure before laying, but has so far ended up crawling through a small hole into an enclosed nest box to lay and the eggs have been in a spot that is 30C