Why not buy from pet store?

[GP212]

I have been asking for help on aquiring a first bearded dragon.
And I greatly appreciate all of the input that you all have given me!
I was just wondering what the difference is between a pet store BD and one from a breeder? Don't the pet stores get them from breeders? I do see that the "mall" pet stores have not the best quality of care but I have been visiting a local country pet store and was wondering if they would be ok. They have one bigger BD that looks quite healthy. It is $200 though. They told me that they would soon be getting in some babies that would cost $100. Would these not be from a breeder? Other than cost' what would be the difference if I bought from them or directly from the breeder?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to support the breeder but I don't seem to have a local one so far and if it is just a cost thing it may be worth it to me to buy from a local pet store. Just don't have the time right now to travel around and my kids want this sooner than later.
I do appreciate your input on this mater!!

ps;What makes one BD worth more than another one? Is it mainly a color thing?

Thanks again,
Glenn

[HeatherRose]

Pet stores generally have much higher prices than breeder beardies.

More often than not, bearded dragons from breeders have better care, it's not always true, but it's usually a good bet.

I'm not that familliar with beardies but from what I can see, beardies that come in different 'morphs' are more expensive, such as redder or lighter colours...

:D

[Leviathan]

Personally, I don't hink it matter's where you get your animal. As long as it is healthy and I prefer to give my business to somewhere where all the animals are healthy. There are alot of things you can ask when buying a Beardy, whether it be from a petstore or a breeder. Ask where it came from. If they don't know, I'd say 'pass'. Ask what they are feeding them. Baby beardies should be on about a 75% insectivore diet and 20% leafy greens and about 5% fruit. Are the insects being dusted with a calcium and does that calcium have a proper Calcium to phosphorous ratio. Iceberg lettuce and carrotts is not an adequete diet!!! Ask what there temperature is. Make sure they have a proper basking light and ambient temperature. Make sure they have UV lighting that is least a 5.0 UVB output. Make sure there tails are intact. Broken tails can sometimes be a sign of a malnourished beardie. Look at there toes/nails as well and make sure they look good and are all there. Also look at the subtrate they are on and are the cages clean? Cost is NOTHING in comparisson to a healthy animal.

I think that's about it. Feel free to add anything (anyone) if you can think of anything else. Oh and price range in Beardies is most likely a result of colour, age or sex.

Alecia

Alecia

[Pia]

As with anything, if you buy direct from a breeder/supplier you will save money. As far as pet stores are concerned, while in general they have a bad rap, they shouldn't all be painted with the same brush. There are good ones out there with caring, knowledgable staff. I would follow what Leviathan has said and if you are satisfied with the quality of the dragon, the conditions of the store and the staff, then go for it. Also, in your situation, you would get to see the dragon before you purchased it whereas if you had it shipped from a breeder it would be sight unseen. Also ask about a health guarantee, most stores and breeders will have a policy regarding this.

[sapphire_moon]

and also, a pet store can look "good" but you never know what is going on in the back. Or how the animals are truely kept.

Usually (not always) pet store herps have parasites and you end up spending more in vet bills on a pet store herp than you would if you bought from a reputable dealer. There usually isn't any local breeders so you will probably have to have one shipped.

Pet store usually tack on about 90% more money than a breeder. Where you say your paying 100$ for a baby, if you go to a breeder you can be paying anything from 40 and up, plus shipping is probably under or just over 100$. Plus you get the hatch date and something like a 30 day guarantee if it becomes ill (and you can prove it wasn't your husbandry that made it ill) where as a pet store, if you buy it, it's yours, there is a 24hr period that if the animal DIES you can bring it back, but thats about it. go to the beardie forum and find a good breeder, maybe one with a website so you can check it out.

And kids have to learn to be patient. ESPECIALLY if they are going to be dealing with reptiles! :) :) lol

And have fun!

[DragnDrop]

I've seen some good pet stores, some bad ones. I can thnk of 3 in my general area that I would deal with anytime, not a worry in the world about the quality of animals I'd be buying from them. I can also think of a few I would love to see shut down, one I've reported to the SPCA.
It's all a matter of how they keep the animals, the source of their animals, and to some extent, the staff.

As Pia said, they can't all be painted with the same brush

Beardie prices are partly based on age and sex, but mostly by colour morph and bloodline.

[sexxie_cucumber]

I got a 14 day guarentee on my beardie and the guy at the petstore favours me. He said if ANYTHING at all goes wrong then I can bring he in for a new one. (not that I would want to). But he loves my beardies and he invited me to a reptile show in a week......Rambling..

[Dragon_Slave]

Just wanted to add in my two cents:

I know a certain beardie breeder that I am about to buy from. They do not treat ANY of their baby beardies for coccidia when they are born because the treatment actually decreases their immune system and can make the babies sicker. Coccidia can be treated, however, when the beardie is older. The beardie breeder's bearded dragons, although they have coccidia, are healthy and grow to be huge, robust dragons.

[K1LOS]

in general, you will save money buying from a breeder, and will likely get a healthier specimen. If they are breeding them, then they are specialized and know the needs of that species. The petstore is just buying them in bulk and trying to move them as fast as possible, and many don't take the time to learn the proper care of these animals. That is a generalization, but lets face it, its the vast majority. I'm sure we all know one or two good petstores, but how many more bad ones can you think of? I would buy from a breeder, its just an all around safer investment.

Where are you located (more specific then ontario i mean)? There are breeders in ottawa, toronto, and i think there are a few in kingston. My guess is you are fairly close to one of these cities. Tell us where you are and someone can tell you a pretty close breeder i bet. I found one about two blocks from my house, after i drove to toronto to meet him that is...

Geoff

[UpscaleBoas]

I think pet stores have gotten a bad rap. I believe that local pet sotes need to be suported even more then local breaders.

Pet stores are often most peoples first real contact with the general public. I can think of many pet shops I would give business to anytime.....others that i will not even walk into. But such is life.

There are hardware stores that i have the same feeling about.
I sugest that you take alook around the pet shops in your area. If they are clean and all the aniamls from snakes, birds, dogs, cats are being treated well then start thinking about maybe using them.

step to s to build a realationship with those in you local store...with your B.D eating the way they do you will be seeing alot of these people. Find out how helpfull and knowledgeable they are.

Then if all of this is good, including price go for.


The only other peice of advise i would give you is go out and buy books on them...then after you have made it through the books start setting up the encloser and getting it ready. By the time all this is done you will have found out a great deal about your new pet and the people and places that will help you aquire one.



good luck

[K1LOS]

i could agree that we need to support the GOOD local pet stores, but first i think they need to become a little more competitive with their prices. Even if i did wish to do business with my local store, why would i buy sandfire dragons (from the same breeder i might add) for $120 from them, when i bought sandfire x redhaze for $70 from the breeder?? If they can start consistently housing all their animals properly (no tailless geckos, no tailnipped BD's, no chameleons in glass aquariums, etc)and their prices come down, then sure i could do business with them. For now, i don't even buy my crickets there cause i can get them cheaper from a breeder. my 2 cents

Geoff

[GP212]

I am in Kingston Ontario and still looking for a local breeder. I have been working on the inclosure and reading up on it all. There sure is a lot to learn and know. The only problem that I have found so far is that there are so many different opinions on stuff. Like I am still undecided on sand for a subtrate. Think that I have turned to this coconut husk stuff but not certain. I have heard both sides. With no experience I can only go with what I am told annd read.Lighting..people have their own opinions. Anyways, I truly appreciate all of yous guys input. I am amazed by all of the support that you all give each other. WOW!!
Oh, so I picked up a 100 gallon tank. And am making a sreen for a top. Am going to look at lights more tonite.
How does everyone feel about using real bones like animal skulls for in the tank. I have read that it will all have to be "baked" before I use it but is there any other concerns?

Thanks again to all for all of you help!!
Glenn

[GP212]

Another question What about local insects for food. Our place is crawling with crickets(outside of course). And if that is ok would switching to store bought in the winter mess up his/her system. I know what happens when I switch brands of the dogs food. We really don't want to go there again!!!

Glenn

[K1LOS]

baking a skull should kill everything off, i can't tell you the temps and times for doing that. I have also heard of soaking in a 10% bleach 90% water solution.

sand, you will never find a definate answer, everybody dissagrees on this topic. I use sand, i haven't had any trouble. I know of at least one breeder that uses sand, he doesn't have any problems. To be honest the safest method is to use paper towel, but then it would be safer to make your children wear helmets and padding where ever they go to. They could fall and hurt themselves on the pavement, but it's a reasonable risk to take. Anyways, we won't get into that...

a 100 gallon tank sounds great, you could probably house a couple girls in that if you'd like. Sometimes you can permenantly house a male and a female, but they may need to be seperated. Don't even try two males.

lighting, well, thats one place almost everybody agrees. You need uvb lighting. You can't skimp here, you need to go to the petstore and buy yourself a reptisun 5.0, a repti-glo 5.0, or a Mercury Vapour Bulb. the MVB are alot more money up front, but could vary well save you money in the long run. If you go that route be prepared to do a lot of exchanges, the bulbs crap out but are guaranteed. Your basking spot should be about 110 degrees, but people vary on that temp aswell. Mine is at 120 i believe, but there is a good gradient where they can shift a couple inches and drop several degrees. Good luck, and keep the questions coming!

Geoff

[drewlowe]

Hello GP 212

I used to have a unknowed animal skull (given to me by a friend) in the beardies tank when they were younger but they would just trample the thing now so it has been removed. I think as long as they are "cleaned" (however this method is done) it should be fine.

The thing with WC (wild caught) insects is you don't know if they have been sprayed with any chemicals (pesticieds) or if they have any parasites (but you can get parasites from store bought ones also). If you do decied to use WC insects make sure they are from a place that they do not spray.

"I have found so far is that there are so many different opinions on stuff"

This will always be the case, Different methods DO work, you need to find out what works best for you and your future dragons. Plus things are always changing, they find out new stuff, benifical and not. That's why alot of us say to do research and form your own opinions (not just going to one care sheet or book for answers), taking care of animals is not always a strait line.

Good luck, can't wait to see pics when you get him/her.

Jamie

[GP212]

Ok. You have to remember that I am a rookie. So the UVB lights are the "spot like" type of fixtures that I see, correct. And when I see the flourescent tube type, that is just used to light the area.
If so, will I need more that one UVB.
Like I said, I am going to the pet store tonite after work to look see and ask some questions.

[Leviathan]

UVB is normally the flourescent tube but they do have bulbs as well now. For a beardie I would reccommend A flourescent tube, I use the Exo-terra 8.0 and for a basking bulb I would use a 150 watt.

Alecia

[drewlowe]

UVB can come in 2 types. Mercury bulbs (looks similar to normal light bulb) and the floresent UVB bulbs example Zoo Med 5.0 and Exo terra 5.0 (the UVB floresent bulbs can be used both to provide uvb and "light"up the aquarium. It's up to you to chose which would be best.

Personally i use the flouresent fixtures with Zoo Med 5.0 and 2 Zoo Med basking spot lights for my enclosure (for their basking spots to provide a heat source). I have not used the mercury UVB bulbs so i can't really comment on them.

[GP212]

Am I correct then when I say that there is a difference between a UV and a UVB flouresent tube?

[Leviathan]

Yes, There is a difference! There are different types of UV. You must have a bulb that has UVB.

[drewlowe]

and deffinatly NOT a bulb with UVC. Even though i don't think you can readily buy bulbs with UVC. But just as Leviathan said make sure it's UVB. It's not just an ordinary flouresent bulb, also don't get the plant "grow" bulbs they don't put out enough UVB for herps that require it. You can skimp on most things but this is not one of them that you can (not saying that you are or anything).

Before i forget to say this It make me very happy to see someone putting in this much effort BEFORE they get the herp!!!

[Big Mike]

It is really good to see that you are doing so much research before getting the dragon. All too often, we see basic questions about recently bought animals that should have been asked long before.

I think that the most common lighting set up is to have a fluorescent UVB bulb and then a regular bulb or ceramic heat element for the basking spot. One thing to consider is the fixtures. For the heat bulb, you will need a lamp with a reflective dome and a ceramic socket. Don't get one with a plastic socket.

When I got my first beardie tank, I spent way too much on the fluorescent fixture. I bought one that fit snuggly over the tank and points the light downward under a hood. It was $125. For my next tank, I bought a kit that just has a ballast and two sockets. I just mounted it under my home made screen top. Much cheaper.

Even if you just buy the fixture from a hardware store, it's much cheaper but you might have to do some rigging to get it placed or mounted.

Also, don't forget a timer. It's much more convenient to set the lights on a timer so the lights turn on & off, on their own. They are inexpensive anyway.

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by Big Mike
Also, don't forget a timer. It's much more convenient to set the lights on a timer so the lights turn on & off, on their own. They are inexpensive anyway.

I always forget great advice like that, I love the fact that i never have to worry about forgeting if i turned a light on or off, and you can use the cheap 5 dollar ones.

I agree with the fixtures both comments. Make sure you do buy the ceramic instead of plastic ones, They are a little more expensive but give you a better piece of mind (from fires) and they last longer. LOL Mike my man went out and bought a nice one for the leos tank spent close to 100 for it and it broke in 2 years, I bought one at Home Depot for 20 and it's still going strong. LOL

Jamie