a ethical Q about pets?

[chamitch]

i belive it is wrong to have pets that will outlive you. some people have tutles who will outlive there keepers. im sure this is the case of other animals but all i know about is like 50+ year old turtles and tortuses.

so why do people do this? what are your thoughts as perhaps keepers and none keepers of these animals.



peace

[fateamber]

I don't think its wrong if you have someone that will look after them. But if you plan to get them, then die without finding someone to take them, I think that is wrong.

[BoidKeeper]

I think they are bought with the thought that they are temperary in mind. Even worse is people who buy giant snakes with the intention of selling them when the get "too" big.
You do raise an interesting point though. Ball Pythons and Boa Constrictors are amoung the longest lived snakes and I have both. I'm 29 now and I know that I won't be keeping snakes into my 60s so what will I do with my "pets"?
Cheers,
Trevor

[DragnDrop]

I see nothing wrong with keeping pets that can and will outlive you.
Who's to say I won't get hit by a bus tomorrow? Does that mean I shouldn't have had my dogs, cat, geckos, and snake since they're now 'orphans'? Even the crickets I bought last week will have outlived me, was I unfair to them?

If you check around in (I believe it's) Portugal, you'll find a lot of Galapagos Giant Tortoises kept as pets. They've been in the family for generations. When the current owner dies, the tortoises are 'inherited' by someone, usually a trusted family member. The story in the news last week about Timmy, a turtle who died at the age of 160 in England is a good example too. He was cared for by family members, became part of the family too.

The thing to do is plan in advance. Make sure you have someone who will either take over the care of the animal(s) or can be relied on to find a caring home for them. Some people make specific reference in their will about the care of their surviving pets.

[drewlowe]

I think as long as they have a "plan" after they pass on, I could walk out the door today and be killed and i don't have anyone i trust with my herps.

My boyfriends mom's boyfriend (if that makes since LOL) Has a brother that keeps Galapogos Tortoises and they have all of it planned out if/when they pass away.

[dave68]

excellentlly said, dragndrop- Plannining is always important!!!!I agree 100%.

[chamitch]

yea its one thing to get hit by a bus. but i mean a animals that live will defintly outlive you if you live until the life expectancy. i think you were just trying to be silly. and it still is unfair because you cant even see a bus comming so how can you take care of pets? haha jk

my point is most people dont inherit pets. alot o people that have los of pets dotn even have kids just pets.

perhaps there needs to be more awareness of this.

peace

[marisa]

I don't think there needs to be more awareness. We are talking about a SELECT few pets that will outlive people. Turtles, Tortoises, and POSSIBLY ball pythons although not all live until they are 45.

I mean to assume people shouldn't get those pets because they might outlive them doesnt make sense. What about someone with a special needs child born when they are older? Should they adopt the child out just to make sure someone will be around when they pass on? No. You just do your best until your time comes and hopefully have a back up plan.

Marisa

[daver676]

I think everyone should have a plan in place for their pet in case they pass on. I know where my pets are going to end up if I die tomorrow. Do you?

[Yve]

if you don't buy it someone else will...all wild caught and captive breeding would have to cease so there would be nothing available in the market for anyone to buy in order to prevent caretakers being out lived by their animals. I think an animal in captivity that is properly cared for has lived a worthy life even if it has to be euthanized once you expire. You can also look at all the animals outlived by there owners because their care was neglected....I think that problem far outweighs the other.

[red bootz]

You will never have problems off-loading a breeder sized tortoise in Canada...As long as its not a sulcata.

[chamitch]

Originally posted by marisa
I What about someone with a special needs child born when they are older? Should they adopt the child out just to make sure someone will be around when they pass on? No. You just do your best until your time comes and hopefully have a back up plan.

Marisa

well first of all. if you are older and know there is a greater chance of your child having problems. then you shouldnt have a child.

also is it fair to the child to have to be moved from home to home after its parents pass on? what would you think in that situation if you were the child?

your argument is good, but i would think pets and children are different.

peace

[Cruciform]

Not really. Both pets and children can be accounted for in your will. As long as you've planned for an unexpected demise, it shouldn't be an issue.

[chamitch]

^^^ you missed the point. children have a stronger bond with there parents then a herp. if my lizard got deppresed or had a phycological problem because i sold him i wouldnt. but they do not.(maybe feel comfortable with me and not others but thats it) and if they had strong bonds like that then selling herps at all is unethical.

[Matt.B]

So your saying that a 70 year old turtle isnt gunna have a bond with a person that has been keeping feeding and loving it for 69 years. they may be primative but they arent stupid.
Matt

[chamitch]

im saying there isnt a bond liek a child. and my point was if you belive herps can have bond of sorts, then it is unethical to keep/sell and breed them for that purpose. seeing as your at this site im sure you have some herps. and therefore your beliefs are inconsistent.


elephants, chimps and soem monkeysand other mammals are the only animals to have seperation anxiety or any problems caused by bond. if you left teh herp in teh same spot as he was for 60 years there woudl be no change in its behavior just becaues someone isnt there.

this does not make them more primative. infact i think it is better for survival not to have bonds.

[Oliverian]

Bloody freaking hell! I just typed this message four times and it told me I wasnt logged in each time! I'll type it later if I get a chance. Jeez! It was a good one, too.

-TammyR

[Oliverian]

Sure... that time it worked..... :rolleyes:

-TammyR

[Matt.B]

A bond is formed between a herp and its keeper after a long time. It could stress the herp out for the simple fact of feeding. If yu are the one that feeds it and It is seperated from you it may think that it is seperated from its food source.
Matt

[damzookeeper]

Well, I don't have any animals that would outlive me if I lived a long and healthy life, but I do have a plan for their future if anything were to happen to me.

[Jeff Hathaway]

There are many other animals that can outlive keepers; in the pet world, how about parrots? They often outlive their owners. Elephants in zoos outlive their keepers (sometimes these unethical people even retire); are you saying that they shouldn't be kept because of this?

I would side firmly with those who say as long as you plan for the animal's care after your demise (which should be done even with short-lived animals, and this has been covered in several threads already), than it is just fine. There is nothing that I can see that is unethical about having a ball python that might outlive you, or a tortoise that almost certainly will.

And, I personally don't think these animals form much of a bond with their owners. Perhaps my turtles will outlive me, but I think they'll bond just fine with whomever takes over feeding them!

It IS better for survival to have parental care and associated 'bonds'. That is how animals that do so can persist despite having only a few offspring (or even one) at a time. Animals which don't typically have dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of offspring at once. Obviously, these don't all survive; the odds are seriously against them.

Trevor, why won't you be keeping snakes when you're 60?

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[chamitch]

i say as long as people plan on the care after they die it is fine. but im sure alot of people dont. buy a turtle at the store, and nto think about that. i think more people need to be aware of that.

peace