Couple New Ones (Widows) *pics*

[Removed_2815]

Hello again,
Well these widows are growing wicked fast! They hatched out on March 5, 2004 and looked like this:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling.JPG

Four days later they looked like this:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Lings.JPG

21 days later they looked like this:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%203.JPG

22 days later they looked like this:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%207.JPG

And today, 34 days after emerging, they look like this:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%201%20April%208.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%202%20April%208.JPG

These guys blow my mind! They are such tiny and efficient predators. No wonder they are virtually cosmopolitan, such high fecundity and the instinctual desire to eat and grow fast. I love 'em....
Cheers,
Ryan

P.S. I put the Egg Construction video back up on my webspace and I compressed it down to 3.2mb. For those who have not seen it, feel free to right-click the link and save it to your hard-drive.
Widow Egg Construction (http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Egg%20Sac%20Construction.ASF)

[Oliverian]

Nice! Never knew they grew that fast. I have one right now that's still fairly small, but she's growing too. Neat pattern on the young ones. Do they still have a nasty bite when they're little?

Now... I don't know... Do the males look the same as the females? I always thought it was the females who got big and black, and the males were totally different.

-TammyR

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Oliverian
Do they still have a nasty bite when they're little?

Now... I don't know... Do the males look the same as the females? I always thought it was the females who got big and black, and the males were totally different.

The little spiders are apparently poisonous, not venomous. Meaning that they are dangerous if you were to eat them for some reason but they are not venomous (not sure if the classification arises because they have no venom or they just can't puncture human skin). Not sure at what age they cease being poisonous and become venomous (apparently humans can ingest adult widows with nary an ill effect).
Males are apparently also not venomous, only the females pose a risk to humans.
Widows are exceptionally sexually dimorphic, this (http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/okwild/misc/bwmale.html) is what a male looks like. Females are the larger, more recognisable sex.
Cheers,
Ryan

[Emily-Fisher]

OOH... I can hardly wait for mine! Yes, that's right.. that means that I convinced my parents! Yessss!!

Very adorable.. it's amazing how they can change so much so quickly..

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

Oh you and I both Em, you and I both,


Aidan

[Oliverian]

What? Darn! Now I have to wait until they grow up a bit before I can eat them. Good thing you warned me!

-TammyR

[Yve]

looking good!:) I saw one for the first time in person last weekend...they are really spectacular and I didn't realize how large they get!

[Dragoon]

Bolton! What a tease you are! hahahaha

When do we get to purchase our little widows? :)

Also, at what age do they become sexable? The females obviously make a flashier display pet. And I'm assuming they will live longer, too?
Thanks much for the pics, yours are so very good!
D.

[ChokeOnSmoke]

Wow awesome video...
So at first she is spinning a casing for the eggs, and then when the yellowish stuff appears at the bottom, is that the eggs? Is that what is happening?

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Dragoon
When do we get to purchase our little widows? :)
Ha ha ha, I apologize to all who are waiting.... Hopefully they will be available soon but I don't know when. I wish I had a timeline based on previous experience but this is my first time. They are still very small...

Originally posted by Dragoon
Also, at what age do they become sexable?
I have read that by letting them cannibalize each other (which is what I did), you can ensure that most (if not all) of the survivors will be female. By the looks of it, they are all female.

Originally posted by Dragoon
And I'm assuming they will live longer, too?
Females do live longer and make better display animals. Males do not feed after their last molt and their sole desire in life is to mate. I would only sell females unless a male was requested.

Originally posted by Dragoon
Thanks much for the pics, yours are so very good!
D.
My pleasure and thank you for the compliment.

Originally posted by ChokeOnSmoke
So at first she is spinning a casing for the eggs, and then when the yellowish stuff appears at the bottom, is that the eggs? Is that what is happening?
Yup, she first creates a little cup-shaped structure on the underside of a branch (using a special kind of silk). She then applies the yellow mass of eggs (it's supposed to stick to the cup). She finishes by enclosing the entire yellow mass of eggs. It takes a couple of hours.

Here's a recent pic I took today of one of the larger spiders (with a recent molt in the frame):
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%201%20April%2012

Cheers,
Ryan

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

So what are they eating now if not one another? :P

Aidan

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by SaIiLdVaEnR
So what are they eating now if not one another? :P

Aidan
They have been separated and feeding on crickets since March 25th.
Ryan

[Dragoon]

How very scary!!!!

The females eat all the males? The only chance for them to survive to maturity is to make a run for it then....
I do hope males are capable of mating multiple females, or else there's many females that will live out their lives without contributing to recruitment. What a self-limiting practice, so many girls, so few guys...
Strange spiders. And thanks much for taking the time to answer all our questions!
D.

[TheRedDragon]

Very cool Ryan! You're very lucky to have those guys, looks like they're coming along very nicely! :)

[Oliverian]

Are those from the girl that you found in the grapes? I always used to think they were found all over Canada. Is it just BC then, or are they in some other provinces, too?

-TammyR

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Dragoon
The females eat all the males? The only chance for them to survive to maturity is to make a run for it then....
I guess, when they were so confined in my pickle jar, the females (for some reason) are more prone to survival. Widow spiderlings, in the wild, rapidly disperse from the egg sac by ballooning. This is when the spider will direct it's abdomen into the wind and release silk from its spinnerets. Once enough silk has been released into the wind and the surface area exposed to the wind exceeds the mass of the spider it floats away. Quite remarkable actually, I once saw a video in an animal behaviour class of this process - it was pretty neat. Anyway, once they are dispersed then the males have a better chance of reaching maturity.
It's always better to have more females than males in a population (well the ideal is an even distribution), especially with a species where the female only needs to be fertilized once to be remain fertilized for the rest of her life. Apparently, the term 'Widow' is somewhat of a misnomer because the females do not always eat the males, as is the popular opinion. Apparently, this is observed in captivity due to the confinement, however, wild female widows rarely eat their mates. So, in theory, a male can mate more than one female. So females are the limiting sex.

Originally posted by Dragoon
And thanks much for taking the time to answer all our questions!
Ha, my pleasure, I enjoy discussion.....;)

Originally posted by Oliverian
Are those from the girl that you found in the grapes? I always used to think they were found all over Canada. Is it just BC then, or are they in some other provinces, too?

-TammyR
Yep, this is the female from the grapes. She is on her seventh egg sac and I think I am going to let this one hatch out too. I don't know what I am going to do with them, selling them is such a liability, but they are so much fun to raise. I'll need to acquire some sort of creature that only eats Black Widows :)
L. hesperus is what you will find in B.C., which is the species that I am keeping. L. variolus occurs in extreme Southeastern Canada.
Cheers,
Ryan

[Oliverian]

She's on her 7th egg sack from one mating? Do they retain sperm or something? Man, learn something new every day.
Very neat how they develop so quickly.

-TammyR

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

Originally posted by RMBolton
Widow spiderlings, in the wild, rapidly disperse from the egg sac by ballooning. This is when the spider will direct it's abdomen into the wind and release silk from its spinnerets. Once enough silk has been released into the wind and the surface area exposed to the wind exceeds the mass of the spider it floats away. Quite remarkable actually, I once saw a video in an animal behaviour class of this process - it was pretty neat.

Just like in Charlotte's Web eh? Good book from back in the day. :P:P:P

Aidan

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Oliverian
Do they retain sperm or something?
Yep, only one mating and she's set for life....
Ryan

[Removed_2815]

Here are some pics of one of the more uniquely patterned spiderlings:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%201%20April%2013.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%202%20April%2013.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%203%20April%2013.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%204%20April%2013.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Spiderling%205%20April%2013.JPG
Cheers,
Ryan

[Edwin]

Great video, Ryan. Very well done, and love the music! Thanks for sharing.

[Bighead]

If you haven't read my other thread yet (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42006), I just found one in my living room 3 days ago, and today I saw an egg sack in there with her. I have no idea what to do, but I want to keep and/or give away and/or sell the slings. What do I do and what are the legalities? I would appreciate it if any of you responded on my thread so I don't lose track. Thanks.

Jordan

[Removed_2815]

Well, I think about three of the spiders are ready to go! Here is one of the largest female's:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Widow%201%20April%2018.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Widow%202%20April%2018.JPG
Notice the red coming through on the hour-glass pattern.... neat!
Cheers,
Ryan

[Removed_2815]

Hello all,
Okay, I have some new pics and some pretty interesting observations to share.

First off, and I have noticed this on all of my spiderlings, the pedipalps seem to be enlarged on young Widows for some reason. This seems to disappear after 2 months or so out of the sac. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why spiderlings have pedipalps like these. Anyway, here's a pic:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Female%20Pedipalps.JPG

Also, I have observed an interesting sexual dimorphism between male and female spiderlings. As it turns out, I do have a male, and, aside from the obvious difference of leg length and abdomen size, male Widow spiderlings appear to have black pedipalps compared to the female's brown pedipalps.
I find this to be very useful for sorting out males and females when they are young and look exactly alike.
Anyway, here's a pic of a male spiderling:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Male%20Pedipalps.JPG

Also, there appears to be behavioural differences between the sexes too. Firstly, males do not feed as readily as the females. Secondly, males are very skittish and scurry around the deli cup whenever I open the top; whereas, the females will merely pull their legs close to their abdomen and remain motionless. I am looking forward to seeing what the male looks like when he matures.

The next two pics are just meant to show the size differences among the female siblings. Both of these girls are 2 months out of the sac but one is almost twice the size of the other:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Female%20Penny.JPG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Female.JPG

Enjoy!
Cheers,
Ryan

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

Pedipalps= Boxing gloves. They're very beautiful Ryan, I love em! (When I have the money I will for sure buy one) How many widow's do you have?

Aidan

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by SaIiLdVaEnR
Pedipalps= Boxing gloves.
Yeah, but don't the pedipalps only take on this boxing glove appearance in reproductive males (when they are carrying the sperm packets)? Normally, pedipalps look like tiny legs, merely jointed appendages used for food manipulation and sensory perception.
I just think it's interesting that they look like this when they are young and then take on the more normal appearance later on in life:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Pedipalp.jpg

Also, as an aside, I was going over an older photo and I think you can discern the genital pore/orifice in this photo:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rbolton1/Folder/Genital%20Pore.jpg

What does everyone think?

Cheers,
Ryan

[Dragoon]

I think you're pretty nifty, Ryan! Thanks for sharing those photos.

It is very interesting that baby males have knobs. Is there anyway to examine one of them under a microscope? Perhaps a better look at their design might give away the reason for them being there.
Just a wild guess...do male widows spin sperm webs like T's? And if they do not, perhaps the bulbs are tiny sperm sacs that get drawn into the body when the spider grows big enough. Maybe they don't produce sperm as they grow older, but are instead born with as much as they will have (like us female mammals, our ovaries contain all our egg cells at birth).
Oh, just wild speculation, I know not a thing about invert reproductive biology....

And not to be a pest, but when can I purchase a widow? I have a little 2.5 gallon that is reserved just for a little hesperus...
Cheers
D.

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Dragoon
It is very interesting that baby males have knobs. Is there anyway to examine one of them under a microscope? Perhaps a better look at their design might give away the reason for them being there.
I do have access to dissecting scopes, I usually use them for phenotyping fruitflies. Of course, I would have to anaesthetize the spider and I am not sure if the same product ("flynap") that works on fruitflies will work on Widows.
I like your ideas on why they have enlarged pedipalps when young. Notice that the females have the little bulbs too, the first pic is a female and the second is a male.

Originally posted by Dragoon
And not to be a pest, but when can I purchase a widow? I have a little 2.5 gallon that is reserved just for a little hesperus...
Cheers
D.
I sent you a PM...

Cheers,
R