Which do you think is a better first snake and why, Corns or Balls?

[BoidKeeper]

Here is why I think a Corn snake is a better first snake then a Ball Python.

Although there are a lot of CBB balls on the market there are even more CBB corns so it's easier to get a CBB snake.

They stay smaller so there for they will be cheaper to house. Cost saving is important when first entering the hobby for some people.

As adults they eat mice. Although you can feed them hopper rats they will do fine on mice unlike an adult ball which will take forever to get to it's adult size if you try and raise it on mice. Mice are generally easier to get and cheaper so therefore I say that corns are easier to feed.

Corns take F/T with out half the difficulty as balls.

Corns only seldom go off food in the breeding season. Most balls go off food like clockwork with or with out being cycled.

If you're so inclined corns are easier to breed.

Although flighty at first they calm down and take well to being handled unlike most balls that remain head shy.

They don't have the higher temp and humidity requirements that balls do. So if your home's ambient is a bit cool it won't affect a corn like it would a ball. If the air is a bit dry it won't have shedding problems as bad as a ball will. 60% humidity is very high if you think about it. Your home's humidity is not that high so you need to make sure you tank will hold in the humidity. 10g tanks and heat lamps won't do this. That same set up although not ideal will work a lot better with a corn then it will with a ball. It can work with a ball yes but it will take more effort to make it work then it would with a corn.

A very interesting corn morph can be bought for only a fraction of the price of that of a ball. You can start out into corns with an albino or even a Lavender but a newbie will almost never be able to start out into the hobby with an Albino ball or a spider.

So now it's your turn. If you agree with my OPINIONS as to why corns make a better first snake please say so. Also please add other reasons that I may have missed.
If you disagree and feel that balls make a better first snake then a corn please list your reasons for thinking so, who knows you might even change my mind!
Cheers,
Trevor

[m1k3_88]

I got my ball python first and then my corn 2nd. Ill agree that corns are alot easier to keep, but i think they are both great first snake:)

[Linds]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
They stay smaller so there for they will be cheaper to house. Cost saving is important when first entering the hobby for some people...

Although flighty at first they calm down and take well to being handled unlike most balls that remain head shy...

...If the air is a bit dry it won't have shedding problems as bad as a ball will. 60% humidity is very high if you think about it. Your home's humidity is not that high so you need to make sure you tank will hold in the humidity.

Corns are only smaller in mass, they generally attain the same lengths as balls, and are more active, so really they would benefit from a larger enclosure than a Ball.

I've met some nasty corns that didn't calm down with any amount of handling from their owners. Bitey balls are few and far between.

I just keep my balls at room humidity, which is certainly not 60%, and they shed perfect every time (although a few years ago it used to be, but we replaced the furnace and it didn't come with a humidifier like the last one had). I'm going to have to disgaree with the statement of everyone's home not being 60%. In the summer, my house easily reaches that, and in many places in the states it is that high, or even exceeding that, year round.


All that being said, I still do not advocate Ball Pythons for first snakes. Although for some people they may be fine, this isn't the case with most people. All you have to do is glance in any ball python forum to see what I mean. The same questions over and over about how their ball python won't eat, sheds badly, etc. Even with a lot of research, these issues still pose frustrations and concnerns for a first time keeper.

Corns are fine for starters, if you like them. They are quite tolerant of husbandry errors (although we hope these aren't made, they often are) and generally have a healthy appettite. There are many other snakes that are equally as good as well that shouldn't be forgotten as a prosective first snake :)

[Gary O]

HMMM I think if the proper research is done many snakes make great first snakes. I am one that says do not by a corn or a Ball just because someone says start with them first. If you are wanting a Rosey then do the research and get a Rosey.........

But I have many many Ball Pythons that never go off feed. I have a few Corns that do go off feed lol.

The best way to do it is always go CB...........

[DragnDrop]

I've never had a ball pythong, but from reading about them, I "knew" it wouldn't be my first snake, or even third. They sounded more finicky than corns or kings.
I ended up 2 corns, which behaved like perfect angels, almost according to the book. They'd be great first snakes IMHO. However, now I've got a Ruthvens kingsnake. He makes the corns look like something for advanced keepers.
Like I said, even without ball python experience to compare, I still think (at least some) kingsnakes should be on the beginners list.

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by DragnDrop
I've never had a ball pythong

LMAO, sorry Hilde, i couldn't resist that.. What were you thinking about when typing that???? :D

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I have never owned either, I just never got "into" herps through the same typical means as others either. Yet, after keeping and being around snakes of sorts, I strongly will suggest corns over balls hands-down everytime. Who would not though, right? Maybe it is the newer persons personality that makes them think that corns are boring and balls are cool, who knows. Being that most new herp owners do it to be cool, fit in or simply be a bit different for obvious or not-so-obvious reasons. Not many folks started into herps in a natural interest of species they grew up around, or else I think many new herpers would be into Thamnophis, Lampropeltis, Pituophis, Nerodia and the like. Not many are. Look how many start off with Bearded Dragons, Leo Geckos, Balls Pythons and so on.

Well, anyhoo....

Out of the many (to many) ball python owners out there, I do not see why they have become so popular with new snake owners. I hear just as many ball python problems with new owners just as much as new iguana owners these days. Not that they are not a pretty snake, because EVERY snake is, just that there are way to many reasons I personally believe they make a horrible first snake over several other great species that are overlooked, especially for a boid. I also think it has to do with the fact that they are "cool" to new snake owners and those new to herps in general. Snakes like Thamnophis, Corns and the like are just looked at as stupid, ugly, weak things that do not get other peoples attention like a Python! does. Get what I am saying......?

Corns make good first snakes, simply due to the ease and appeal of husbandry and their demeanor. In general, they are just a very simple snake that makes getting use to the care of snakes a breeze. They of course are not the only snake that fits this bill, but one that is reasonably and easily available to most folks. Nothing is better to start with than something extremely easy and hardy. I think a lot of folks think this makes them look dumb or weak to others, so they just must start with something a bit stronger or cooler. Thus is a common reason I hear from new snake owners.

I also see that most new herp folks want to just jump into herps in general like they are natural born herpetoculturists or herpetologists, and want to be Ralph Davis or Bob Clark after only keeping 2 snakes for a time of 4 months. They sit back and read some pages from these (and other) forums, read some Reptile magazine and have friends that are "reptile experts," so they just have to be as well. Many have not taken any serious time to research anything like they trult should. They cannot admit they are new and should just sit back a few years and gain some true experience with reptiles. How many have actually taken time to go herping? It is rare for any to know what animals live in and around their homes even, but they want to start with an animal that gives even experienced folks trouble? Seems a bit odd to say the least...

Not every new herper is the same. I know several that started off with species that almost every new herp owner has never heard of. Not every beginner ball python owner is going to have bad luck, and not every beginner corn owner is going to have the perfect snake. That is just how it is, but generally I see it the way as I have described.

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Matt_K
LMAO, sorry Hilde, i couldn't resist that.. What were you thinking about when typing that???? :D

UGH :)
I wonder too. Talk about typos. :rolleyes:
All I know is that at my age, a thong sure isn't something I think about often.

[Matt_K]

Your age?? I always thought you were like 21... 24 at the most!!

[marisa]

I think it depends on your personal experiences with each species.

For me Ball Pythons have been wonderful easy going additions to my house. They are calm, great for handling, feeding problems are easily over come or understood and they take less maintanence IMHO than a corn when it comes to cleaning.

Corns are more prone to eat with no trouble, will take mice forever, and rarely bite. But as youngsters can be so fast and whippy, they take a bit more cleaning etc.

Frankly I think MANY species are just fine for beginners. It's not so much which snake is the best starter, but which type of person is the best to own a snake, and that means researching fully whatever species you are interested in....first snake or no.
:)

Marisa

[Oliverian]

Your age?? I always thought you were like 21... 24 at the most!!
Lol! Watch out Hilde, looks like he wants something.

-TammyR

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Oliverian
Lol! Watch out Hilde, looks like he wants something.

-TammyR

Ya, probably. Chances are he's got me confused with my daughter Erika, she's 19. He can have her, which will leave me her bedroom for more critter enclosures. Sounds like a good deal all around.

:D

[Jeff Hathaway]

Corns, hands down, for all the reasons listed above. However, that doesn't mean lots of others aren't almost as good, so if someone doesn't 'like' corns, there are other choices. For example, next on my list would be california kingsnakes (better than other kings only because they're so readily available). Some tricolour milks/kings are really great choices as well. North American rat snakes would be great, though they're starting to get a little bigger in some cases. Same with Pituophis, plus temperment tends to be more of an issue with them, in my experience.

Thamnophis and Nerodia are great (I've got lots), but their long term captive care is considerably more difficult than most of those listed above.

Babies of anything are often more nervous (therefore more prone to biting), and generally, less hardy than well started juveniles, so for a first snake, I'd say don't get a brand new hatchling!

I'll concur with Marisa, though, that balls are less effort if you know what you're doing and are properly set up. But since there's more to know, more to set up, and they're far more finicky on average, I still wouldn't recommend them for beginners. Besides, who wants beginners to do less work? They should be enthusiastic about their first herp, and WANT to do all of the things required to keep it:-) Less work shouldn't be an issue until at least the sixth!!!

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by DragnDrop
Ya, probably. Chances are he's got me confused with my daughter Erika, she's 19. He can have her, which will leave me her bedroom for more critter enclosures. Sounds like a good deal all around.

:D

LMAO.. As soon as im nice to someone, im looking for something?? HAHAHAHAHA.. I'm just a nice guy like that :/ I'll remember to not compliment you anymore :P

But anyway, does she have Pythongs?? :D j/k

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Matt_K

But anyway, does she have Pythongs?? :D j/k

No snakes, but she does have a hamster and wants spiney meeces. :) And she lives, breathes and thinks only hockey (Maple Leafs and Kitchener Rangers).
(I'm a loving mother, but I really wouldn't mind having her bedroom for critters.)

[BoidKeeper]

I think it depends on your personal experiences with each species.
First snake implies that the person has no experience with either species, that's kinda my point.;)
On another note, two of my fellow mods hi-jacking another mods post. Tisk, tisk, tisk.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Matt_K]

Sorry Trevor :'(

[YummyCdnMale]

I would go with a corn. i have found the Snow Corn the calmest snakes i have ever had or handled. I still have my first snow corn and she is 12 yrs old. I also have my first Ball who is male and 10 yrs old. I agree both are good snakes but a corns a better first snake. If you going for savings in a long term cost well then again a corns a better choice. What ever choice you make it's a great step into joining many people that love and respect the less desired and respected creatures in the world...

[marisa]

"I think it depends on your personal experiences with each species. "

I meant that as that effects which one you recommend to others as a first snake. For me, I will recommend both corns and ball pythons as my experiences with both are good.

I feel that if you research a snake with care that suits your needs and are ready to handle any specfic behaviours, MANY snakes would be just fine for starter snakes. If someone cannot grasp the simple fact the balls fast, or that corns wont ever just sit there while you hold them, then they need more time thinking about which species of ANIMAL over all they want IMHO :)

Marisa

[BoidKeeper]

All good stuff guys, keep it coming.
As for you Matt, no more magic jelly beans for you.
Trevor

[Jeff Hathaway]

"that corns wont ever just sit there while you hold them"

I find corns one of the calmest and best handling snakes around. That's why we have so many for our programs.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Vengeance]

I think that a first good snake really depends on the person then the species. As an example if you have a person is is really quite interestead in a Ball Python for there very first snake. If that person does the necessary research, finding out all the quirks and behaviors of a Ball Python, sets up a cage and gets everything where it supposed to be before the purchase and has done everything they way they should be doing then I see no problem with why a Ball Python, or any species of snake (excluding Hots and larger breed snakes), would make a bad first snake. I mean even something like a GTP, which is a little more advanced for keeping, would not make a bad first herp for someone as long as they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into and was willing to give the effort needed to make sure that snake had everything it needed. I don't think anyone would ever recommend a GTP as a frst snake, but if that person knows what to expect and is willing to put that effort into the care and upkeep of that snake, then I don't see it as a bad first snake, for that person.

Now on the other side of the spectrum is the impulse buyer or a person buying a herp because johnny down the street has one too. For these kind of people I 100% agree that a corn snake or something similar in ease of keeping is the snake they should be getting. At the end of the day a person like this would be more likely to be able to keep a corn alive and happy then a herp that had quite a few special needs.

[marisa]

Well basically whatever I say about a snake, someone else can disagree with it.

That's why trying to recommend a snake hardly ever works out, you say one thing from your experience but of course another person is right there saying its not true. Not that its a problem in this case of course, but thats a perfect example.

Another reason why I think people should just research on their own, find out whats best for THEM and then ask for peoples experience with that species instead of owners recommending because that just leads to constant disgreements. Obviously. :)

Marisa

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I think what we have concluded at, is that the best first snake is one that fits your fancy, and after much research is something you can work hard on as a beginning herper. Yet, I think we as experienced folk all know to well what the truth of the matter is when it lies with new reptile keepers. It is very hard to see many that do take time to know about other species than what is found is the average pet store or other "average" reptile keepers home.

For arguments sake, I find it true that nearly every beginner keeper does not have a clue on what it is truly like to keep reptiles, even after a ton of research. I can research the heck out of a Dodge Viper all I want as my first car and driving experience, but have I actually gotten into the drivers seat to see what it actually feels like to drive the darn thing? That is the part that kicks in, reality of it all.

No one is a pro at first when keeping any animal. Even with all the books and advise in the world, your still wondering about things. You are still a beginner no matter what you think you know, or how many "pro herpers" you know. Even seasoned folks have questions and ideas about herps. Just how it be. That is why we as the more experienced try to tell newer folks that corns are good, or this is good. Etc, etc, etc.

I also find it a bit personally discouraging that so many newer folks find themselves attracted to the same ol' reptiles. This is just my personal reflection, nothing personal to other keepers. Leo geckos, Ball Pythons, Bearded Dragons, Corn Snakes and so on. I would actually like to see newer folks that get into the hobby due for other reasons than being pushed into the same old reptile market. It makes it simple this way, but has no real deep interest as far as I see it towards herps. Maybe, like I say, I see it from a different angle. I did not start into herps like the general newbie does. I never knew about these online groups, Bob Clark was a name I never heard of. I rarely ever went into a pet store, they just pi$$ed me off. Honestly, I never knew the herp world was quite as popular as it is. But, out of the herper folks (should just say reptile freaks) I did know before through the years, I honestly do not think I knew one that seriously had a clue about them in the slightest degree. All of these guys and gals had tons of books, read the Reptiles Mag and were in this other phase or place than I am in. Some had boas, some had balls, some geckos..... I still feel this is the general newbie into the hobby even today.

I will state that I do keep several species together in one set up, and have many times before. And folks jump down my neck about it. But they are the ones I take their iguanas from that are yellow from eating nothing but crickets, or taking their boas over because they feed it huge live rats for years and have multiple scars. There corn snakes are skinny because the simply got bored of it and had to have a pair of breeding ball pythons to make some money. Or simply new folks that hear that keeping mixed species together is not right that have to put in their two words before they know why I have chosen to do this, and what excactly is in the cage.

This is why I see it is hard to recommend things to new folks, simply they think they have all the answers already anyhow, and simply do not want to understand they are new and need to know they are.

[Jeff Hathaway]

I, too, keep some species together- the horror:-) But, I don't recommend it for people.

Marisa, I agree with what you just said, but I can't just let people research on their own, as we're in the public eye a lot and people constantly ask me what I recommend- which is A) do some reading and B) corn snakes and/or leopard geckos, though I will discuss and recommend a few other species as well. I know from experience that people will do some research, but it won't be very much in most cases. They'll still call or email me if they have problems (even sometimes if I haven't talked to them before, like the friend of my sister's who called me yesterday about their new bearded dragon's eye infection). So I recommend the things that will give them the least problems possible in the hope that it will contribute to a positive experience for them, and for the animal.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[MouseKilla]

Originally posted by DragnDrop

(I'm a loving mother, but I really wouldn't mind having her bedroom for critters.)

Well I think I could give a 19 year old girl a good home. I don't think my wife would mind. lol!

[EDIN]

I have corn snakes and spotted pythons and i woud reccomend either of them to a beginner. edi

[Smilts]

i love all snakes but it really is easier to keep corns, yes with enough research you could keep anything youd like. At the same time how many out there are going to devote enough time to research. Care is easier for corns than BP's, i have both. one of my balls eats good so other than humidity and tank heat he is pretty easy to keep, the other ball doesnt eat most of the time even with perfect care req met. snakes not eating is scary for a first time owner even one that knows they are going to do it

[Leviathan]

The best thing to do is find a snake that appeals to you. Snakes live a long time and if you get one that you're not really going to enjoy but got it because it was easy to care for then that won't work. I know if I started with a corn I would probably pay attentiont to it just until I got my next snake. (which is why I don't have one) Like a couple people have said, there are many snakes that will be a good starter. The best thing to do is look at everything in a whole. What do I like, what is my budget, what is easy to care for. Then find a snake that suits your needs so that you know you can properly care for it.

Just for the record though, although out of my six BP's not one has gone off food for more than a week, I would reccomend a California Kingsnake. I just got my first one two weeks ago. Out of ALL the snakes in my reptile room, he is my favourite!!

[Optimus Prime]

I'm gonna say Corn just because I like them better lol and there are so many morphs out there and its jsut soo fun to mix and match them all.

[seann]

DO YOUR RESEARCH the ball wont starve itself it will eat if it doesn't dont complain u save money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they both rock and thats all i have to say!

[Andy_G]

Both have their pros and cons, but corns are less frustrating when it comes to feeding and can also deal with neglect/mistakes a bit better than balls. Corn is better for a first snake hands down, but if people do their research a ball python isn't out of the question.