Breeding as a side job

[jjnnbns]

I am planning on eventually breeding my JCP pair which has amazing yellows, and my pair of BRB. What is the best way to go about selling them?

I was planning on setting up a site soon with pics of the parents and such, as well as my own info. I also plan on advertising on KS and other forums, as well as the classifieds here.

Do I need to legally start up a *business* or can I just sell the offspring without all the hassle? Any suggestions would be great.

Also, if anyone has any other great places to advertise just let me know!

Thanks,
Brent

[BoidKeeper]

There are 33 million people in Canada, 8 million of which live in two cities alone. Of those 33 million how many keep snakes as pets? Of those people how many spend over a hundred dollars on a snake? Of those how many already have adult BRBs and JCPs? Do you see where I'm going with this? We don't have a huge herp following in this country because we don't have a large population. As a result of our low population we don't have a large market to sell snakes to.
Take NB for example, 750,000 people, I figure there about 50 snake keepers in the province, I personaly know at least 25 of them. Of those 25 at least 23 have corns already. So if that bad in NB how bad is it in the rest of the country?
What is the best way to go about selling them? So to answer your question, whole sale to a large business or pet shop. Selling the whole litter and clutch at a time is best.
A lot of the bigger breeders in Canada do it that way. However, it depends on what you're selling? Will I whole sale my BRBs? Yes. Will I whole sale my Hogs or albino ball hets? No. Some things are worth haning on to so that you can get top dollar. Also depends who is already breeding what you're breeding. You mentioned BRBs and JCPs, Jeff Favelle's and Don Patterson both sell those same animals, you'd be competting with them, whole sale might be starting to sound better.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Tim_Cranwill]

Trevor, Brent lives in the US. That's a different ball game all together. :)

[Vengeance]

Well whats the market like for high end snakes in Canada, because in the next few years I hope to be able to start the same thing. But dealing more in Albino and piebald Ball Pythons instead of more common snakes like BRB's and JCP's.

But in Canada is there really a market for these kinds of snakes?

[CraigC]

Brent,
I'm not sure about ND but in Florida you can be an idividual and sell animals. We had to get a Class III license from the FWC to sell legally, but we did not have to incorporate. I am working on getting an import/export license from USFW to be able to sell outside the US and again this can be done as an idividual. The animals we keep and breed are classed Cities II which require no paperwork here in the US, but it is required for export.
CraigC

[jjnnbns]

Thanks guys,
Yeah, I'd rather sell them individually, but it depends on whether or not I would be able to... I don't wanna end up with tons of babies that I end up keeping around for a year or so... Something to think about. I guess that LLLreptile usually buys wholesale.

I'll have to check into the law more for selling them,

CraigC, do you have to do Self Employment tax or anything for your sales commissions?

[Tim_Cranwill]

A lot of people will tell you "It's hard to make any money breeding" and "There's too many breeders already" but that's just their opinions. If you are working with animals you love, you'll be fine. Post ads in the classifieds, make a web page and build a good reputation based on high quality and in time, you should be able to at least cover your costs.

One thing to consider is that the higher average "value" your snakes have, the easier it will be to recoup your expenses.... but it might be a bit more difficult to find buyers for expensive snakes.... tough call. That's why it's important to work with animals you love and don’t worry about the money! :)

[jjnnbns]

True Tim,

I really don't need to make a ton of money, as I will never be able to be in business full-time breeding. I only plan on getting a few more snakes, if that's even possible, as keepers. I would like to know more and more about each and am excited at the opportunity to breed them and learn more about them!

Covering my costs would be more than I would expect and anything extra would just be amazing, as I would be able to invest in better caging and whatnot.

I'm definitely gonna take it slow for now, but it is something that I also wanna research and seriously consider.

[CraigC]

Brent,
It would be listed as "additional income" for me, but it is best to consult with someone who does taxes and determine what is best for your situation. Florida has no state income tax, so I'm talking about federal tax returns.

This is hobby for me and not my sole source of income (if it ever becomes "self supportive" I'll be happy! LOL). It is not imparative that I sell anything so I can wait out the market so to speak. I am also selective in who I sell to due to my concern for the snakes and have turned down sales for that reason. I basically try to weed out the "impulse buyers" that haven't done a lick of research and have no idea of how to care for the animal. I also try to limit the number of babies produced. Obviously I can't control the number per litter, but I can control the number of females I try to breed per season. For us, the "hard work" is not in the breeding, but in getting the neonates started and well established. LOL

Tim,
I wonder at what $$ amount folks consider animals to fall into the catagories of "low end", "middle" and "high end". I'm specifically interested in CBB animal prices and not WC or CB. Might be an Interesting poll!?!
CraigC

[latazyo]

in the region that we live in ND, MN, etc, these snakes are pretty much unheard of (believe it or not)...there would be no problem with sales

Brent, I would reccomend stopping by the sba on broadway and setting up a meeting with a counselor, he could answer all of your questions for you and even help you to programs that show ytou how to design a website, and also how to register for taxes, etc if necessary

I've been there a few times already

[BoidKeeper]

I so missed that, thanks Tim. Selling balls in the US, what do you think either or harder then in Canada. Certainly more competition from more large comercial breeders but also a lot more customers too.
Regardles, I still say the easiest way to sell snakes is to whole sale them. You get to work with what you love and get to breed them more often because you won't have so many snakes left over from last years season that didn't sell.
Cheers,
Trevor

[AHLizards]

You have to advertise your reptiles in Canada by educating people on why they make good pets, display items etc. There isnt enough education up here to get people interested. We have some good educators yes, but theres a reason the industry isn't catching on. Personally I think there needs to be more privatized reptile stores. Not the large chains doing 3 time markups on sickly reptiles. That just gives reptiles the label of being high maintenance, and hard to care for. Working at stores I've dealt with the general public, most of which feel reptiles become sick and die for unexplained reasons. Now, obviously we all know that most of these cases are explainable, and its probably related to husbandry. So, if anyone decides they want to sell reptiles, they should really do more in the way of educating people, and also explain the pros and cons of captive bred to wild caught. (I know hes not canadian, But i figured id comment)

[Optimus Prime]

I breed and sell my animals but it's more for kicks :) so if I can make a few bucks back towards thier keeping then all the better but I know it's never gonna be my vocation.

[Linds]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper

Regardles, I still say the easiest way to sell snakes is to whole sale them. You get to work with what you love and get to breed them more often because you won't have so many snakes left over from last years season that didn't sell.


Definitely not a bonus to have leftovers, but the headache of having to deal with the caboodles of, for lack of a better term, idiots out there, is really enough to suck all the joy out if it all, and very quickly I might add. It's absolutely ridiculous the amount of BS you have to deal with when selling privately. Of course, selling privately would be ideal for those concerned with their animals out there and not just wanting to make a quick buck, but it really is quite hard.

[BoidKeeper]

Yup no doubt Linds there is a seriouse eithical question involved in whole saleing your animals. Selling of whole clutchs of corns or whole litters of unregistered dogs, what's the difference?
Trevor

[jjnnbns]

Thats quite a concern to me, I don't know if I like the idea of them going to a wholesaler where I don't know that they'll go to a good home. Looking at the other end of the spectrum is just as sad sometimes. Seeing as I'll be breeding BRBs among others, I would need to make sure that whoever takes them understands their specific needs. Well, it is a decision that I will have some time to make.

Let's keep this conversation rolling, there are a lot of good points being brought up and great tips for any small time hobby breeders!

[Corey Woods]

I think most breeders want their animals to go to a good home. Most breeders want to make sure that the animals that they put a lot of time and hard work into producing stay alive long enough to live out their lives in as comfortable as possible and maybe even breed when they are old/big enough. However, on the flip side if you have 100 extra hatchlings sitting around that you have to feed and clean atleat once a week so are usually happy to find someone willing to take 25-50 of them at a time (you'll find this out when you have 50 Jungle Carpets and 75 Brazilian Rainbows sitting their and they all want to bite the crap out of you everytime you open up the cage to feed and clean them).

As far as pricing goes it is different for everyone. This is what I consider to be high, medium and low end.

High end anything over $15,000 US
Medium $5000-15,000 US
low end $1000-5000 US
Extremely low end $100-1000 CDN.

Corey

[Scales Zoo]

Corey, if a $1000 snake is extremely low end to you, would you mind sending me some pocket change? haha

Ryan

[Darren179]

haha corey I dont even think my whole collection is worth that much

[Bighead]

lol. $1000 is extremely low end? Just my personal opinion of course, but here's how I see it:

$1500+ high end
$250-$1500 medium
$1-$250 low end

I think it depends on the herp too. For example, I would consider $100 to be high end for a frog and low end for a ball python. If I spend $10K on any herp, it better be "high end." :)

[marisa]

It depends on the herp and the person. For Corey at this point, 1000 IS low end. It also depends on your income.

jjnnbns I believe its literally impossible to make sure each baby is going to a good home. All breeders would hope for that, but in reality you just cannot spend the time it takes to find that perfect home for each baby. I found it hard to do with only 20 cornsnakes and in the end couldn't spend anymore time on it, so half went to a pet store. It's a nice thought, but when producing anything you would have to be ready to feed and house the off spring for a LONG time until you find homes you feel are suitable for each one. This means you are out more money each week feeding and housing them. It's a choice for sure.

Marisa

[jjnnbns]

I know what you mean Marisa. I will probably try to sell a good amount of them wholesale, but if there are any exceptional beauties I would most likely have to hold them back.

Anyone ever used Reptibid to sell animals? I don't know if I like the idea of having ANYONE able to purchase without any deciding factors from me.... hmmm

Thanks again, Brent

[crazyboy]

i would first try to sel them personally and then sell the leftovers to a local petstore with a rather good and knowladgable reptile section.